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All these teenage stabbings in london 08:41 - Oct 11 with 4190 viewsfergalsharkey

Drug gang tit for tat killings obviously but how do you deal with it?
I think the government should look at changing certain laws to loosen the restraints on what legally can be used as evidence against these vile little rodents.
2 more killed last night, and there is a school of thought which makes you think that if we back away then eventually they will all kill each other.
With the reduction in police numbers in the met maybe that is the grand plan.

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All these teenage stabbings in london on 08:43 - Oct 11 with 1702 viewsDanTheMan

"2 more killed last night, and there is a school of thought which makes you think that if we back away then eventually they will all kill each other."

Works well in Mexico.

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All these teenage stabbings in london on 08:47 - Oct 11 with 1676 viewsSWGF

"last night"?

3pm wasn't it?

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All these teenage stabbings in london on 08:49 - Oct 11 with 1674 viewsartsbossbeard

Decent Met Police programme on the Beeb last night that was on the subject and was quite harrowing.

Snitches get stitches mentality, tit for tat attacks and youngsters getting drawn into easy drug money. In summary, I can't see things improving, just managed. To a certain extent.

The programme left you feeling quite flat as it covered 2x killings - one where a group of 3 lads knifed a young lad to death and the other where another young lad was shot by a 2 person drive-by on a scooter.

Assailants: 5

Murder Convictions: 1

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All these teenage stabbings in london on 08:54 - Oct 11 with 1651 viewsDurovigutum

This week I was reading a chapter in comedian Robert Webb's book "How not to be a boy". He was talking about emotional intelligence and how boys have historically been"taught", either actually or through example, to suppress emotions and have a stuff upper lip. He described how this results in the only emotion young men consider"socially acceptable" to be the matcho one of anger. I then heard a TV debate about knife crime and young men where exactly the same point was made and the terrible impact this is having in places. I think we can all see this clearly when you look around at political discourse, or rather the lack of discourse, at how angry people become about things as simple as football or car parking.

One of the suggested antidotes to this is to read. When you read you garner empathy with the characters and can place yourself into their position and circumstances and see what it is that challenges them and why they are behaving in the way they are.
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All these teenage stabbings in london on 09:09 - Oct 11 with 1599 viewscallis

The answer is legalise drugs. Which plenty of people on here have said over and over. Some won't listen though.

Heard some horror stories about how higher up gang folk rope these kids in very young (usually from less privileged backgrounds) with the promise of easy money and once they're on the street they'll hire one of their own to rob them of their drugs/cash, take it back to the gang and then tell the poor kid they now owe debt with interest so there is no way out from them.

Plus many of these kids pushing drugs are normal lads without a dangerous bone in their body pushing a bit of 'armless 'erb. Sweeping generalisations like the OP are part of the reason nothing's getting done.
[Post edited 11 Oct 9:10]

My hip flask is full of whiskey but my soul feels empty.
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All these teenage stabbings in london on 09:28 - Oct 11 with 1532 viewschicoazul

I have an idea, I may have mentioned it before though.

Words are a medium that reduces reality to abstraction for transmission to our reason, and in their power to corrode reality inevitably lurks the danger that the words will be corroded too. It might be more appropriate, in fact, to liken their action to excessive stomach fluids that digest and gradually eat away the stomach itself.

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All these teenage stabbings in london on 09:46 - Oct 11 with 1489 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

All these teenage stabbings in london on 09:09 - Oct 11 by callis

The answer is legalise drugs. Which plenty of people on here have said over and over. Some won't listen though.

Heard some horror stories about how higher up gang folk rope these kids in very young (usually from less privileged backgrounds) with the promise of easy money and once they're on the street they'll hire one of their own to rob them of their drugs/cash, take it back to the gang and then tell the poor kid they now owe debt with interest so there is no way out from them.

Plus many of these kids pushing drugs are normal lads without a dangerous bone in their body pushing a bit of 'armless 'erb. Sweeping generalisations like the OP are part of the reason nothing's getting done.
[Post edited 11 Oct 9:10]


I actually don’t think it would help with this specific problem - at least not unless along with legalising the government actively provided heroin/cracks addicts with drugs, or were able to provide them extremely cheaply. Otherwise I think the people these gangs are ultimately selling to are too far gone to care about where their drugs are coming from, and the gangs would simply be providing them still at a cheaper price than they would get them from legitimate sources

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All these teenage stabbings in london on 10:06 - Oct 11 with 1420 viewsPrideOfTheEast

All these teenage stabbings in london on 09:09 - Oct 11 by callis

The answer is legalise drugs. Which plenty of people on here have said over and over. Some won't listen though.

Heard some horror stories about how higher up gang folk rope these kids in very young (usually from less privileged backgrounds) with the promise of easy money and once they're on the street they'll hire one of their own to rob them of their drugs/cash, take it back to the gang and then tell the poor kid they now owe debt with interest so there is no way out from them.

Plus many of these kids pushing drugs are normal lads without a dangerous bone in their body pushing a bit of 'armless 'erb. Sweeping generalisations like the OP are part of the reason nothing's getting done.
[Post edited 11 Oct 9:10]


You would legalise all drugs?
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All these teenage stabbings in london on 10:15 - Oct 11 with 1393 viewsBrianTablet

All these teenage stabbings in london on 09:09 - Oct 11 by callis

The answer is legalise drugs. Which plenty of people on here have said over and over. Some won't listen though.

Heard some horror stories about how higher up gang folk rope these kids in very young (usually from less privileged backgrounds) with the promise of easy money and once they're on the street they'll hire one of their own to rob them of their drugs/cash, take it back to the gang and then tell the poor kid they now owe debt with interest so there is no way out from them.

Plus many of these kids pushing drugs are normal lads without a dangerous bone in their body pushing a bit of 'armless 'erb. Sweeping generalisations like the OP are part of the reason nothing's getting done.
[Post edited 11 Oct 9:10]


Or just legalise murder?
Crime rate down.
Problem solved.
[Post edited 11 Oct 10:20]

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All these teenage stabbings in london on 10:28 - Oct 11 with 1365 viewsSuperblue95

All these teenage stabbings in london on 10:15 - Oct 11 by BrianTablet

Or just legalise murder?
Crime rate down.
Problem solved.
[Post edited 11 Oct 10:20]


Those Purge films, whilst being dreadful films, had the best idea. Let people do whatever crime they want for one day a year to get it out of their system and then just hope they obey the law the rest of the year round.

Can’t see any downsides or why it wouldn’t work.

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All these teenage stabbings in london on 11:10 - Oct 11 with 1306 viewstabletopjoe

All these teenage stabbings in london on 09:09 - Oct 11 by callis

The answer is legalise drugs. Which plenty of people on here have said over and over. Some won't listen though.

Heard some horror stories about how higher up gang folk rope these kids in very young (usually from less privileged backgrounds) with the promise of easy money and once they're on the street they'll hire one of their own to rob them of their drugs/cash, take it back to the gang and then tell the poor kid they now owe debt with interest so there is no way out from them.

Plus many of these kids pushing drugs are normal lads without a dangerous bone in their body pushing a bit of 'armless 'erb. Sweeping generalisations like the OP are part of the reason nothing's getting done.
[Post edited 11 Oct 9:10]


This would be fine if drugs weren’t dangerous, but they are (particularly cannabis) and it would be a tragedy for society

'Let the ignorant argue with themselves' -- CL

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All these teenage stabbings in london on 11:13 - Oct 11 with 1299 viewscallis

All these teenage stabbings in london on 09:46 - Oct 11 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

I actually don’t think it would help with this specific problem - at least not unless along with legalising the government actively provided heroin/cracks addicts with drugs, or were able to provide them extremely cheaply. Otherwise I think the people these gangs are ultimately selling to are too far gone to care about where their drugs are coming from, and the gangs would simply be providing them still at a cheaper price than they would get them from legitimate sources


I've posted on this previously, but general overview is...

Legalise
Save all the money wasted every year for decades fighting a losing battle
Free up police time to deal with other crime
Make safer for users
Get tax money in national kitty
Offer better treatment for addicts
Remove black market and gang involvement

Would gangs move onto something new? Probably. But if they made alcohol and smoking illegal tomorrow (and they would if they were invented today) it would face the same challenges. I just don't see why the government get to decide what is legal and illegal to get me off my pickle based on dated research, old school attitudes and what they've deemed societal norms. Most drug users are working respectable jobs and are not active criminals. It's all so backwards.

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All these teenage stabbings in london on 11:13 - Oct 11 with 1296 viewscallis

All these teenage stabbings in london on 11:10 - Oct 11 by tabletopjoe

This would be fine if drugs weren’t dangerous, but they are (particularly cannabis) and it would be a tragedy for society


I remember when Blue Oyster was good at trolling.

But before someone serious jumps on this, if you want to slag off weed you best not enjoy a drink in the evenings or on weekends.
[Post edited 11 Oct 11:15]

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All these teenage stabbings in london on 11:15 - Oct 11 with 1283 viewscallis

All these teenage stabbings in london on 10:15 - Oct 11 by BrianTablet

Or just legalise murder?
Crime rate down.
Problem solved.
[Post edited 11 Oct 10:20]


DON'T MAKE ME KILL YOU.

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All these teenage stabbings in london on 11:16 - Oct 11 with 1276 viewscallis

All these teenage stabbings in london on 10:28 - Oct 11 by Superblue95

Those Purge films, whilst being dreadful films, had the best idea. Let people do whatever crime they want for one day a year to get it out of their system and then just hope they obey the law the rest of the year round.

Can’t see any downsides or why it wouldn’t work.


The downside is in the film though. It's a massive statement on the class war that currently exists in the USA.

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All these teenage stabbings in london on 11:17 - Oct 11 with 1268 viewsSpruceMoose

All these teenage stabbings in london on 11:10 - Oct 11 by tabletopjoe

This would be fine if drugs weren’t dangerous, but they are (particularly cannabis) and it would be a tragedy for society


Christ alive. Trolls like you are skidmarks soiling this once otherwise decent forum.

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All these teenage stabbings in london on 11:20 - Oct 11 with 1246 viewsGaryCooper

All these teenage stabbings in london on 11:13 - Oct 11 by callis

I've posted on this previously, but general overview is...

Legalise
Save all the money wasted every year for decades fighting a losing battle
Free up police time to deal with other crime
Make safer for users
Get tax money in national kitty
Offer better treatment for addicts
Remove black market and gang involvement

Would gangs move onto something new? Probably. But if they made alcohol and smoking illegal tomorrow (and they would if they were invented today) it would face the same challenges. I just don't see why the government get to decide what is legal and illegal to get me off my pickle based on dated research, old school attitudes and what they've deemed societal norms. Most drug users are working respectable jobs and are not active criminals. It's all so backwards.


It is the affording of drugs, particularly the nastiest and most destructive drug crack, that is the problem.
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All these teenage stabbings in london on 11:21 - Oct 11 with 1243 viewscallis

All these teenage stabbings in london on 11:20 - Oct 11 by GaryCooper

It is the affording of drugs, particularly the nastiest and most destructive drug crack, that is the problem.


If they were legal they'd likely be more affordable. Black markets drive up costs.

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All these teenage stabbings in london on 11:22 - Oct 11 with 1241 viewsleitrimblue

All these teenage stabbings in london on 11:10 - Oct 11 by tabletopjoe

This would be fine if drugs weren’t dangerous, but they are (particularly cannabis) and it would be a tragedy for society


True dat, only last saturday i smoked a few spliffs after a beer or 2 an gave myself what i believe is known as a 'whitey". Was spinning out in the bathroom an i even got a little bit of sick in my mouth. Ban it!
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All these teenage stabbings in london on 11:22 - Oct 11 with 1224 viewsHerbivore

All these teenage stabbings in london on 09:46 - Oct 11 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

I actually don’t think it would help with this specific problem - at least not unless along with legalising the government actively provided heroin/cracks addicts with drugs, or were able to provide them extremely cheaply. Otherwise I think the people these gangs are ultimately selling to are too far gone to care about where their drugs are coming from, and the gangs would simply be providing them still at a cheaper price than they would get them from legitimate sources


You'd have to offer treatment, including prescription meds, for those addicted to things like heroin. By not treating everyone who touches a drug as a criminal you end up freeing up a lot of police resource to then focus on those people still involved in the illegal trade.

The main issue with full legalisation is that it can't really happen on a national scale. You can't have actual legit businesses buying coke from criminal gangs in Colombia, so there's no real means of getting a legal supply of certain drugs. It needs a more global response to really work.

Decriminalisation is a bit simpler and works as a sensible public health response to those using drugs, but it does next to nothing to tackle the issue of criminals supplying drugs.
[Post edited 11 Oct 11:27]

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All these teenage stabbings in london on 11:24 - Oct 11 with 1214 viewschicoazul

All these teenage stabbings in london on 11:21 - Oct 11 by callis

If they were legal they'd likely be more affordable. Black markets drive up costs.


Good high quality affordable skunk crack and heroin available from Boots for everyone age 18+. Surely this is what our society needs, yes.

Words are a medium that reduces reality to abstraction for transmission to our reason, and in their power to corrode reality inevitably lurks the danger that the words will be corroded too. It might be more appropriate, in fact, to liken their action to excessive stomach fluids that digest and gradually eat away the stomach itself.

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All these teenage stabbings in london on 11:25 - Oct 11 with 1208 viewscallis

All these teenage stabbings in london on 11:22 - Oct 11 by leitrimblue

True dat, only last saturday i smoked a few spliffs after a beer or 2 an gave myself what i believe is known as a 'whitey". Was spinning out in the bathroom an i even got a little bit of sick in my mouth. Ban it!


GETTIN' CROSS FADED.

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All these teenage stabbings in london on 11:30 - Oct 11 with 1178 viewsGaryCooper

15 year old boy stabbed to death in the middle of the afternoon outside McDonalds, no fear of stop and search, where were the police? Arresting Tarquin and Tabatha at city airport, four old bill to a flaccid Rupert.
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All these teenage stabbings in london on 11:30 - Oct 11 with 1169 viewsHerbivore

All these teenage stabbings in london on 11:24 - Oct 11 by chicoazul

Good high quality affordable skunk crack and heroin available from Boots for everyone age 18+. Surely this is what our society needs, yes.


I don't really see the issue. Those things are already available to those that want to take them, though they are supplied by criminals and sometimes cut with toxic substances. They also vary in strength because production is far from standardised, increasing the risk of overdose. If you care about people's wellbeing then a sensible drugs policy is the only way, and a sensible drug policy should focus on legalisation and regulation with very tough policing of anyone operating outside the agreed legal and regulatory framework.
[Post edited 11 Oct 12:24]

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All these teenage stabbings in london on 11:39 - Oct 11 with 1147 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

All these teenage stabbings in london on 11:13 - Oct 11 by callis

I've posted on this previously, but general overview is...

Legalise
Save all the money wasted every year for decades fighting a losing battle
Free up police time to deal with other crime
Make safer for users
Get tax money in national kitty
Offer better treatment for addicts
Remove black market and gang involvement

Would gangs move onto something new? Probably. But if they made alcohol and smoking illegal tomorrow (and they would if they were invented today) it would face the same challenges. I just don't see why the government get to decide what is legal and illegal to get me off my pickle based on dated research, old school attitudes and what they've deemed societal norms. Most drug users are working respectable jobs and are not active criminals. It's all so backwards.


I think you’ve missed the point

If drugs were legalised and able to be bought via legal sources, your average recreational user would almost certainly do so, assuming no real dropoff in quality or significant increase in price. Dealers would probably try and compete and still sell at a cheaper price but appeal would be less as people would worry about what they were buying

However, your average hard substance addict who is scrambling together every last £ is more likely to be susceptible - and so think the black market would rage on

The gang issue is very much tied to the latter

I could be wrong - and of course very difficult to predict exactly given what a huge shift it would be if it did by some miracle happen

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