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Go compare the United Kingdom with Spain/Catalonia - severe sentencing? 09:59 - Oct 14 with 935 viewsWeWereZombies

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49974289

Completely different constitutions of course but I cannot help wondering whether a trial of Boris Johnson and Ress-Mogg that found that they had mislead the Queen and misused public funds would send them down for thirteen years?

Poll: My previous poll is no longer relevant, should I start a new poll?

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Go compare the United Kingdom with Spain/Catalonia - severe sentencing? on 13:39 - Oct 14 with 852 viewsDarth_Koont

They also have a case to answer for economic terrorism.

From the Geneva Centre for Security Policy:
"What is “economic terrorism” and why should it be addressed? Contrary to “economic warfare” which is undertaken by states against other states, “economic terrorism” would be undertaken by transnational or non-state actors. This could entail varied, coordinated and sophisticated or massive destabilizing actions in order to disrupt the economic and financial stability of a state, a group of states or a society (such as market oriented western societies) for ideological or religious motives.
These actions, if undertaken, may be violent or not. They could have either immediate effects or carry psychological effects which in turn have economic consequences.
Massive threats against infrastructures have already been addressed, as have threats against populations (CBRN). Conversely, potential massive actions against economic systems have not yet been given the attention they deserve."

Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Farage, Banks and their merry band of disaster capitalists are a sleeper cell that have been activated by shady Russian and alt-right American interests.
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Go compare the United Kingdom with Spain/Catalonia - severe sentencing? on 13:56 - Oct 14 with 834 viewsblueislander

The only way that could happen is if The Queen gave evidence against them. Not very likely is it?
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Go compare the United Kingdom with Spain/Catalonia - severe sentencing? on 14:01 - Oct 14 with 832 viewsbluelagos

Leaving aside the rights/wrongs of the UK politicians, am struggling to see how jail sentences for those guys is in anyway justified. All it will do it stir resentment among Catalans and will further their cause for independence.

Can you imagine if say the SNP called a vote (without Westminster approval) and the leaders were then jailed...

Poll: So who are the biggest menace / danger?

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Go compare the United Kingdom with Spain/Catalonia - severe sentencing? on 15:05 - Oct 14 with 771 viewsWeWereZombies

Go compare the United Kingdom with Spain/Catalonia - severe sentencing? on 13:56 - Oct 14 by blueislander

The only way that could happen is if The Queen gave evidence against them. Not very likely is it?


Sorry but I think bluelagos has got more of a handle on why I asked the question.

Poll: My previous poll is no longer relevant, should I start a new poll?

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Go compare the United Kingdom with Spain/Catalonia - severe sentencing? on 15:10 - Oct 14 with 760 viewsBloomBlue

Why should they? Blair got away with the deaths of British soldiers when he lied about weapons of mass destruction if you dont get locked away for years for that it proved politicians can get away with any thing
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Go compare the United Kingdom with Spain/Catalonia - severe sentencing? on 15:15 - Oct 14 with 755 viewsblueislander

Go compare the United Kingdom with Spain/Catalonia - severe sentencing? on 14:01 - Oct 14 by bluelagos

Leaving aside the rights/wrongs of the UK politicians, am struggling to see how jail sentences for those guys is in anyway justified. All it will do it stir resentment among Catalans and will further their cause for independence.

Can you imagine if say the SNP called a vote (without Westminster approval) and the leaders were then jailed...


One of the key issues with the Catalan politicians is their perceived encouragement of civil disorder.
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Go compare the United Kingdom with Spain/Catalonia - severe sentencing? on 15:39 - Oct 14 with 730 viewsbluelagos

Go compare the United Kingdom with Spain/Catalonia - severe sentencing? on 15:15 - Oct 14 by blueislander

One of the key issues with the Catalan politicians is their perceived encouragement of civil disorder.


Labeling voting (or organising it) as civil disorder is some stretch imho.

Be interested in CIL's take/insight on this, or any other posters close to it / better more informed than me...

Poll: So who are the biggest menace / danger?

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Go compare the United Kingdom with Spain/Catalonia - severe sentencing? on 15:45 - Oct 14 with 721 viewsblueislander

Go compare the United Kingdom with Spain/Catalonia - severe sentencing? on 15:39 - Oct 14 by bluelagos

Labeling voting (or organising it) as civil disorder is some stretch imho.

Be interested in CIL's take/insight on this, or any other posters close to it / better more informed than me...


There was huge provocation and ovr-reaction from the Guardian Civil if you take the Separatist viewpoint. Outside of Catalina there was/is very little sympathy for their cause. The display of Spanish flags hanging from balconies In Madrid was remarkable.
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Go compare the United Kingdom with Spain/Catalonia - severe sentencing? on 15:49 - Oct 14 with 715 viewsbluelagos

Go compare the United Kingdom with Spain/Catalonia - severe sentencing? on 15:45 - Oct 14 by blueislander

There was huge provocation and ovr-reaction from the Guardian Civil if you take the Separatist viewpoint. Outside of Catalina there was/is very little sympathy for their cause. The display of Spanish flags hanging from balconies In Madrid was remarkable.


Appreciate many outside of Catalonia had no sympathy or wish for Catalan independence, but I am still struggling with the idea of jail sentences for trying to organise a peaceful event (a vote).

It's not as if the guys took up arms (as ETA did in the Basque country) - they pushed their agenda through peaceful and democratic methods.

Did the Madrid people generally approve of the Guarda Civil actions around the vote?
[Post edited 14 Oct 15:50]

Poll: So who are the biggest menace / danger?

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Go compare the United Kingdom with Spain/Catalonia - severe sentencing? on 17:06 - Oct 14 with 684 viewsblueislander

Go compare the United Kingdom with Spain/Catalonia - severe sentencing? on 15:49 - Oct 14 by bluelagos

Appreciate many outside of Catalonia had no sympathy or wish for Catalan independence, but I am still struggling with the idea of jail sentences for trying to organise a peaceful event (a vote).

It's not as if the guys took up arms (as ETA did in the Basque country) - they pushed their agenda through peaceful and democratic methods.

Did the Madrid people generally approve of the Guarda Civil actions around the vote?
[Post edited 14 Oct 15:50]


It is not quite that simple. As with all protest movements, there is an extreme element who used violence. The political leaders did not condemn this. There was very little sympathy in the rest of Spain for those protestors who were subject to the violence of the Guardian Civil. I think the jail sentences are aimed at making examples of the politicians, and may well get reduced on appeal.
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Go compare the United Kingdom with Spain/Catalonia - severe sentencing? on 17:08 - Oct 14 with 682 viewsbluelagos

Go compare the United Kingdom with Spain/Catalonia - severe sentencing? on 17:06 - Oct 14 by blueislander

It is not quite that simple. As with all protest movements, there is an extreme element who used violence. The political leaders did not condemn this. There was very little sympathy in the rest of Spain for those protestors who were subject to the violence of the Guardian Civil. I think the jail sentences are aimed at making examples of the politicians, and may well get reduced on appeal.


Cheers for your response.

Poll: So who are the biggest menace / danger?

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Go compare the United Kingdom with Spain/Catalonia - severe sentencing? on 18:10 - Oct 14 with 647 viewsBarcaBlue

Go compare the United Kingdom with Spain/Catalonia - severe sentencing? on 15:49 - Oct 14 by bluelagos

Appreciate many outside of Catalonia had no sympathy or wish for Catalan independence, but I am still struggling with the idea of jail sentences for trying to organise a peaceful event (a vote).

It's not as if the guys took up arms (as ETA did in the Basque country) - they pushed their agenda through peaceful and democratic methods.

Did the Madrid people generally approve of the Guarda Civil actions around the vote?
[Post edited 14 Oct 15:50]


I was at one of the polling stations, saw no violence at all as there were no Guardia Civil. It was pretty much a party atmosphere. It was like that from what I can tell at probably all polling stations where there was no Guardia Civil presence.

The Guardia Civil when they left their barracks in Huelva were cheered on with the (football) chant "A por ellos" - Go get 'em.

There is some sympathy for the Catalan cause outside of Catalonia but certainly not from the Spanish right or far right, who were asking for 75 year prison sentences.

My view is that the sentences are completely disproportionate and political in nature. There's a race to the bottom to see who can be seen to attack Catalan politics more vehemently.

Personally I think the independence movement got it wrong and were very naive but that doesn't excuse the sentencing today.
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Go compare the United Kingdom with Spain/Catalonia - severe sentencing? on 18:24 - Oct 14 with 639 viewsblueislander

Go compare the United Kingdom with Spain/Catalonia - severe sentencing? on 18:10 - Oct 14 by BarcaBlue

I was at one of the polling stations, saw no violence at all as there were no Guardia Civil. It was pretty much a party atmosphere. It was like that from what I can tell at probably all polling stations where there was no Guardia Civil presence.

The Guardia Civil when they left their barracks in Huelva were cheered on with the (football) chant "A por ellos" - Go get 'em.

There is some sympathy for the Catalan cause outside of Catalonia but certainly not from the Spanish right or far right, who were asking for 75 year prison sentences.

My view is that the sentences are completely disproportionate and political in nature. There's a race to the bottom to see who can be seen to attack Catalan politics more vehemently.

Personally I think the independence movement got it wrong and were very naive but that doesn't excuse the sentencing today.


That is obviously a correct assessment of the situation from someone who experienced it. I would slightly take issue with the thought that the opposition to the Catalan independence movement In the rest of Spain was from the “Spanish right”. In my experience it was more general than that
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Go compare the United Kingdom with Spain/Catalonia - severe sentencing? on 07:58 - Oct 15 with 526 viewsbluelagos

Opinion pieces following yesterday's jailings.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/15/catalonia-separatists-jail

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/14/spain-imprisonment-catalan
[Post edited 15 Oct 8:04]

Poll: So who are the biggest menace / danger?

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El Clasico: Barcelona v Real Madrid postponed because of fears over civil unrest on 11:43 - Oct 18 with 423 viewsWeWereZombies

Go compare the United Kingdom with Spain/Catalonia - severe sentencing? on 18:10 - Oct 14 by BarcaBlue

I was at one of the polling stations, saw no violence at all as there were no Guardia Civil. It was pretty much a party atmosphere. It was like that from what I can tell at probably all polling stations where there was no Guardia Civil presence.

The Guardia Civil when they left their barracks in Huelva were cheered on with the (football) chant "A por ellos" - Go get 'em.

There is some sympathy for the Catalan cause outside of Catalonia but certainly not from the Spanish right or far right, who were asking for 75 year prison sentences.

My view is that the sentences are completely disproportionate and political in nature. There's a race to the bottom to see who can be seen to attack Catalan politics more vehemently.

Personally I think the independence movement got it wrong and were very naive but that doesn't excuse the sentencing today.


Things appear to have gotten completely out of hand now:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50096390

Poll: My previous poll is no longer relevant, should I start a new poll?

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El Clasico: Barcelona v Real Madrid postponed because of fears over civil unrest on 22:07 - Oct 18 with 335 viewsDarth_Koont

El Clasico: Barcelona v Real Madrid postponed because of fears over civil unrest on 11:43 - Oct 18 by WeWereZombies

Things appear to have gotten completely out of hand now:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50096390




The Catalans for Yes twitter feed looks pretty brutal. I think the Spanish government and authorities have lost this one.
[Post edited 18 Oct 22:12]
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