| Amidst the valid criticisms of racism there is still some self-reflection needed on 07:02 - Oct 15 with 2125 views | bluewein |
While we can all agree that there are still some absolute bells following us "over land and sea", I've found the last 12 hours of this debate growing increasingly into the same sort of petty point scoring that the subject doesn't need.
People making the "shouldn't throw stones in glass houses" calls about racism amongst England fans when (I feel) we as a nation in general have one of the more intolerant views against the pond life that make these vile taunts. We're definitely not in the mould of the Bulgarian manager with his head in the sand and trying to deflect blame onto us after calling them out for their sh1t. Nor do we have supporters club spokesmen who try to make racist chanting into some form of "respect" for players as was the case for Lukaku in Italy recently. (This being from his own supporters as well as opposition!)
Instead, we see incidents such as the abuse Sterling received against Chelsea last season and are quick to make an example of these "people", shaming them as quick as possible and showing that in this country it should not be tolerated. Yet we still seem to be more interested in getting one up on our own. I find it incredible seeing Stan Collymore (understandably) going on a twitter rant telling people he refuses to go on GMB because he'll be the token blackman and there's too much faux outrage on this subject, before telling people to listen to his podcast with real talk of racism with John Barnes who then rather bizarrely gets dogs abuse for his views on something he's known all his life! Seems a very backwards way of thinking.
Sorry to go on a bit, and of course this rant isn't aimed at you. Still, Mingsy was fooking ace wasn't he...? [Post edited 15 Oct 2019 7:04]
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| Amidst the valid criticisms of racism there is still some self-reflection needed on 07:54 - Oct 15 with 1987 views | crunchie1978 |
| Amidst the valid criticisms of racism there is still some self-reflection needed on 07:02 - Oct 15 by bluewein |
While we can all agree that there are still some absolute bells following us "over land and sea", I've found the last 12 hours of this debate growing increasingly into the same sort of petty point scoring that the subject doesn't need.
People making the "shouldn't throw stones in glass houses" calls about racism amongst England fans when (I feel) we as a nation in general have one of the more intolerant views against the pond life that make these vile taunts. We're definitely not in the mould of the Bulgarian manager with his head in the sand and trying to deflect blame onto us after calling them out for their sh1t. Nor do we have supporters club spokesmen who try to make racist chanting into some form of "respect" for players as was the case for Lukaku in Italy recently. (This being from his own supporters as well as opposition!)
Instead, we see incidents such as the abuse Sterling received against Chelsea last season and are quick to make an example of these "people", shaming them as quick as possible and showing that in this country it should not be tolerated. Yet we still seem to be more interested in getting one up on our own. I find it incredible seeing Stan Collymore (understandably) going on a twitter rant telling people he refuses to go on GMB because he'll be the token blackman and there's too much faux outrage on this subject, before telling people to listen to his podcast with real talk of racism with John Barnes who then rather bizarrely gets dogs abuse for his views on something he's known all his life! Seems a very backwards way of thinking.
Sorry to go on a bit, and of course this rant isn't aimed at you. Still, Mingsy was fooking ace wasn't he...? [Post edited 15 Oct 2019 7:04]
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Fantastic post. |  | | |
| Amidst the valid criticisms of racism there is still some self-reflection needed on 08:25 - Oct 15 with 1939 views | BlueBadger |
| Amidst the valid criticisms of racism there is still some self-reflection needed on 07:02 - Oct 15 by bluewein |
While we can all agree that there are still some absolute bells following us "over land and sea", I've found the last 12 hours of this debate growing increasingly into the same sort of petty point scoring that the subject doesn't need.
People making the "shouldn't throw stones in glass houses" calls about racism amongst England fans when (I feel) we as a nation in general have one of the more intolerant views against the pond life that make these vile taunts. We're definitely not in the mould of the Bulgarian manager with his head in the sand and trying to deflect blame onto us after calling them out for their sh1t. Nor do we have supporters club spokesmen who try to make racist chanting into some form of "respect" for players as was the case for Lukaku in Italy recently. (This being from his own supporters as well as opposition!)
Instead, we see incidents such as the abuse Sterling received against Chelsea last season and are quick to make an example of these "people", shaming them as quick as possible and showing that in this country it should not be tolerated. Yet we still seem to be more interested in getting one up on our own. I find it incredible seeing Stan Collymore (understandably) going on a twitter rant telling people he refuses to go on GMB because he'll be the token blackman and there's too much faux outrage on this subject, before telling people to listen to his podcast with real talk of racism with John Barnes who then rather bizarrely gets dogs abuse for his views on something he's known all his life! Seems a very backwards way of thinking.
Sorry to go on a bit, and of course this rant isn't aimed at you. Still, Mingsy was fooking ace wasn't he...? [Post edited 15 Oct 2019 7:04]
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That said though, 'at least we're not as bad as the others' doesn't mean we shouldn't be trying harder to be better than we are. The example you cited of the treatment of Raheem Sterling in the press says we still have a way to go. |  |
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| Amidst the valid criticisms of racism there is still some self-reflection needed on 08:33 - Oct 15 with 1924 views | bluewein |
| Amidst the valid criticisms of racism there is still some self-reflection needed on 08:25 - Oct 15 by BlueBadger |
That said though, 'at least we're not as bad as the others' doesn't mean we shouldn't be trying harder to be better than we are. The example you cited of the treatment of Raheem Sterling in the press says we still have a way to go. |
Of course we should. But people are realising that the treatment of Sterling by the red tops is/was/always has been bang out of order. The treatment from the Chelsea lot is now met with the general consensus of "What a bunch of c-units. Name and shame them..."
I just feel that we as a nation are learning a hell of lot quicker that you can't say awful crap to people because of their skin colour. (Yes, that does look ridiculous when I read it back...) | |
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| Amidst the valid criticisms of racism there is still some self-reflection needed on 10:24 - Oct 15 with 1786 views | Churchman |
| Amidst the valid criticisms of racism there is still some self-reflection needed on 07:02 - Oct 15 by bluewein |
While we can all agree that there are still some absolute bells following us "over land and sea", I've found the last 12 hours of this debate growing increasingly into the same sort of petty point scoring that the subject doesn't need.
People making the "shouldn't throw stones in glass houses" calls about racism amongst England fans when (I feel) we as a nation in general have one of the more intolerant views against the pond life that make these vile taunts. We're definitely not in the mould of the Bulgarian manager with his head in the sand and trying to deflect blame onto us after calling them out for their sh1t. Nor do we have supporters club spokesmen who try to make racist chanting into some form of "respect" for players as was the case for Lukaku in Italy recently. (This being from his own supporters as well as opposition!)
Instead, we see incidents such as the abuse Sterling received against Chelsea last season and are quick to make an example of these "people", shaming them as quick as possible and showing that in this country it should not be tolerated. Yet we still seem to be more interested in getting one up on our own. I find it incredible seeing Stan Collymore (understandably) going on a twitter rant telling people he refuses to go on GMB because he'll be the token blackman and there's too much faux outrage on this subject, before telling people to listen to his podcast with real talk of racism with John Barnes who then rather bizarrely gets dogs abuse for his views on something he's known all his life! Seems a very backwards way of thinking.
Sorry to go on a bit, and of course this rant isn't aimed at you. Still, Mingsy was fooking ace wasn't he...? [Post edited 15 Oct 2019 7:04]
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This is a really good post. Spot on. |  | | |
| Amidst the valid criticisms of racism there is still some self-reflection needed on 16:22 - Oct 15 with 1655 views | caught-in-limbo |
That's a great article Steve.
There were some really ugly scenes from the Bulgarian "fans" last night. Nasty, ignorant racism.
There are a couple of aspects to these events however which interest me:
1) I've never known a racist switched on enough to actually come up with anything that shows some level of thinking. That "no respect" jumper, along with the FIFA logo is far too clever for your standard thug of a racist. Odd.
2) There a people calling Bulgaria a racist country, or at least one with deep social problems and they should be punished. It's hypocritical for us to point and shout racism at anyone else in view of our history.
True, we've made great progress and I'm incredibly grateful for that but excluding a country from future competitions because of the views of a small percentage of their people is not the way to go. Their unacceptable views are a product of their isolation - isolating them further is only likely to further entrench their views. |  |
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| Amidst the valid criticisms of racism there is still some self-reflection needed on 16:29 - Oct 15 with 1628 views | Herbivore |
| Amidst the valid criticisms of racism there is still some self-reflection needed on 08:33 - Oct 15 by bluewein |
Of course we should. But people are realising that the treatment of Sterling by the red tops is/was/always has been bang out of order. The treatment from the Chelsea lot is now met with the general consensus of "What a bunch of c-units. Name and shame them..."
I just feel that we as a nation are learning a hell of lot quicker that you can't say awful crap to people because of their skin colour. (Yes, that does look ridiculous when I read it back...) |
Although it's interesting that attitudes to Sterling in the press and amongst the general public have shifted along with him starting to contribute more in terms of goals and assists for club and country. That suggests to me that attitudes towards racism over here are still somewhat instrumental and thus changeable. |  |
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| Amidst the valid criticisms of racism there is still some self-reflection needed on 16:42 - Oct 15 with 1583 views | Swansea_Blue |
I don't see why we need to conflate the two separate cases/issues.
Bulgarian football should be held to account for racism. It's as simple as that.
Yes, England abroad are consistently xenophobic idiots - so that needs dealing with too. As does any racist behaviour in grounds in the UK or overseas. But they're separate cases; we're talking about Bulgarian fans behaviour last night. It's not in any way hypocritical to criticise the racist Bulgarian fans and expect action to be taken. I'd be saying the same about England fans (and frequently do). |  |
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