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Those loveable Tories, again 22:53 - Oct 15 with 3793 viewsBrixtonBlue

The Tories are trying to rig the coming election by insisting you must have photo ID to vote. We have never needed this before, we haven't had problems with fraud, and it will only disenfranchise the poorest from voting, the people who usually vote for Labour. 3.5 million have no photo ID, 11 million have no passport or driving licence.

Just another in the long list of dishonest politics in this country. Are we much worse than the rogue states we often castigate?

Even if you hate Corbyn you should be waking up to what's going on.

Extinction Rebellion have it right IMO. We need direct action to overthrow the absolute charlatans running this country.

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Those loveable Tories, again on 05:46 - Oct 16 with 570 viewswkj

Those loveable Tories, again on 05:44 - Oct 16 by jeera

You're missing a trick though.

The Type 2 just recycles old guff and serves no actual purpose, which, yes, could be considered a metaphor for posting history, but if you gave it a bit more thought you could link your creation to an external unit with some kind of ignition and combustion system and use that guff to power the home.

Quite possibly a small town.


Surely cumin has been making guff powered homes a reality for years?

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Those loveable Tories, again on 05:49 - Oct 16 with 565 viewsjeera

Those loveable Tories, again on 05:46 - Oct 16 by wkj

Surely cumin has been making guff powered homes a reality for years?


Turn off the light on your way to bed.

Well it looks like a duck, it sounds like a duck. Nope, dunno what it is.
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Those loveable Tories, again on 05:56 - Oct 16 with 558 viewsBlueRaider

Those loveable Tories, again on 22:56 - Oct 15 by sparks

This is not an easy issue.

The idea that you cannot do so many things without proving your identity - but can vote, is clearly problematic. Especially with some of the shady stuff which various interested groups have tried in recent times.

It is, in principle, absolutely the right thing to do. It is clearly problematic that it appears likely to impact certain groups more than others. It also raises interesting questions as to why that is, and as to the underlying motive.


It is hard to know what fraud there has been in the past, if you know someone who is not going to vote and you go and impersonate them then how will anyone know ?

Unfortunately the political parties only ever push the things in this field that will help them, just like Labour wanting 16 year olds to vote (too young in my opinion). It would be nice if they all just looked at things that would benefit the voting system as a whole rather than just themselves

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Those loveable Tories, again on 07:40 - Oct 16 with 524 viewsGaryCooper

Those loveable Tories, again on 23:11 - Oct 15 by BrixtonBlue

I agree it's quite sensible - but we haven't had it, we haven't had major issues with fraudulent elections (as far as I'm aware) so why now?

My gf was recently burgled, and her passport was taken. She doesn't drive. Straight away, no photo ID.


You believe that all episodes of electoral fraud are captured?
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Those loveable Tories, again on 08:00 - Oct 16 with 494 viewsHerbivore

Those loveable Tories, again on 05:56 - Oct 16 by BlueRaider

It is hard to know what fraud there has been in the past, if you know someone who is not going to vote and you go and impersonate them then how will anyone know ?

Unfortunately the political parties only ever push the things in this field that will help them, just like Labour wanting 16 year olds to vote (too young in my opinion). It would be nice if they all just looked at things that would benefit the voting system as a whole rather than just themselves


A 16 year old can get married, work full time, or join the army but you think they're too young to vote? How come?

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Those loveable Tories, again on 08:08 - Oct 16 with 506 viewsGlasgowBlue

There is very little voter fraud in this country so there is absolutely no need to introduce this.

As an amusing aside , I saw a tweet from a Labour CLP who were organising a meeting about this. It ended with something like “only members carrying membership cards will be admitted to the meeting”.

Anyway, for the first time in ages I agree with you.
[Post edited 16 Oct 8:08]

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Those loveable Tories, again on 08:08 - Oct 16 with 493 viewsHerbivore

Those loveable Tories, again on 07:40 - Oct 16 by GaryCooper

You believe that all episodes of electoral fraud are captured?


Could you share your data on how many instances of electoral fraud are really going on versus those that are reorded? I'd be interested to see it.

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Those loveable Tories, again on 08:10 - Oct 16 with 499 viewsGaryCooper

Those loveable Tories, again on 08:08 - Oct 16 by Herbivore

Could you share your data on how many instances of electoral fraud are really going on versus those that are reorded? I'd be interested to see it.


For goodness sake do you believe that all electoral fraud is captured? If your answer is yes, then the Div list is aptly described.
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Those loveable Tories, again on 08:17 - Oct 16 with 488 viewshampstead_blue

JC calling it as it is again!

He's employed a convicted vote rigger into his office!
in addition....
Working with Tariq Mahmood another voting fraudster.....

Photo ID is a great idea. You need it to do most things so why not voting? The right to vote is so important it has to be taken seriously.

Anyhow, councils will issue ID for those who don't have it.

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Those loveable Tories, again on 08:18 - Oct 16 with 487 viewsDanTheMan

Those loveable Tories, again on 08:10 - Oct 16 by GaryCooper

For goodness sake do you believe that all electoral fraud is captured? If your answer is yes, then the Div list is aptly described.


You would think, given that it's apparently important enough to make voter ID necessary, there would be some data regarding why this is necessary other than just "feels".

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Those loveable Tories, again on 08:29 - Oct 16 with 479 viewsfactual_blue

Those loveable Tories, again on 23:41 - Oct 15 by Melford

I haven't got a passport and I can't drive. C*nts. If having no photo ID means I can't vote, I'm seriously ***king furious. The bastards.

[Post edited 15 Oct 23:46]


The entire village of Long Melford should be disenfranchised.

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Those loveable Tories, again on 08:29 - Oct 16 with 482 viewsitfcjoe

Seems unnecessary and a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Levels of electoral fraud are so low, that a hugely expensive procedure to put through is unnecessary, and it obviously affects a certain type of voter more heavily.

If we had compulsory ID cards (which I'm not comfortable with personally) then it's a goer, otherwise it needs to be well down the priority list.

Also, how does it work with postal votes, where a lot of 'fraud' takes place? There would just be a lot more of these to deal with as the local candidates would be signing everyone up for this and filling them in to ensure they still get their vote

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Those loveable Tories, again on 09:05 - Oct 16 with 444 viewsHerbivore

Those loveable Tories, again on 08:10 - Oct 16 by GaryCooper

For goodness sake do you believe that all electoral fraud is captured? If your answer is yes, then the Div list is aptly described.


Could you share your data please, genuinely interested to see it.

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Those loveable Tories, again on 09:06 - Oct 16 with 452 viewsflimflam

Those loveable Tories, again on 08:00 - Oct 16 by Herbivore

A 16 year old can get married, work full time, or join the army but you think they're too young to vote? How come?


But they cannot be deployed until 18 into a combat zone.
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Those loveable Tories, again on 09:08 - Oct 16 with 433 viewsHerbivore

Those loveable Tories, again on 08:17 - Oct 16 by hampstead_blue

JC calling it as it is again!

He's employed a convicted vote rigger into his office!
in addition....
Working with Tariq Mahmood another voting fraudster.....

Photo ID is a great idea. You need it to do most things so why not voting? The right to vote is so important it has to be taken seriously.

Anyhow, councils will issue ID for those who don't have it.


You need photo ID for most things? Like what? The post office accept a bank card for collecting undelivered mail. The only thing I've had to show photo ID for this year is foreign travel. I don't see why actually having to show your polling card wouldn't be a reasonable solution to what is a tiny problem.

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Those loveable Tories, again on 09:09 - Oct 16 with 447 viewschicoazul

Quite right Jerseys quite right. This is another step towards eroding our ancient English freedoms and making us all carry ID cards, just like Blunkett wanted. No more can you or I or any other free Englishman simply walk up and cast our vote the way our forebears did.

Words are a medium that reduces reality to abstraction for transmission to our reason, and in their power to corrode reality inevitably lurks the danger that the words will be corroded too. It might be more appropriate, in fact, to liken their action to excessive stomach fluids that digest and gradually eat away the stomach itself.
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Those loveable Tories, again on 09:11 - Oct 16 with 439 viewschicoazul

Those loveable Tories, again on 08:17 - Oct 16 by hampstead_blue

JC calling it as it is again!

He's employed a convicted vote rigger into his office!
in addition....
Working with Tariq Mahmood another voting fraudster.....

Photo ID is a great idea. You need it to do most things so why not voting? The right to vote is so important it has to be taken seriously.

Anyhow, councils will issue ID for those who don't have it.


This idea that picking up an Amazon delivery is in any way the same as exercising our ancient freedoms as Englishmen is nonsense.

Words are a medium that reduces reality to abstraction for transmission to our reason, and in their power to corrode reality inevitably lurks the danger that the words will be corroded too. It might be more appropriate, in fact, to liken their action to excessive stomach fluids that digest and gradually eat away the stomach itself.
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Those loveable Tories, again on 09:15 - Oct 16 with 425 viewsSwansea_Blue

Those loveable Tories, again on 08:08 - Oct 16 by GlasgowBlue

There is very little voter fraud in this country so there is absolutely no need to introduce this.

As an amusing aside , I saw a tweet from a Labour CLP who were organising a meeting about this. It ended with something like “only members carrying membership cards will be admitted to the meeting”.

Anyway, for the first time in ages I agree with you.
[Post edited 16 Oct 8:08]


Or if you do introduce ID for votes it's done AFTER the introduction of a compulsory, but freely available, ID card system. It's just another really badly thought through idea (presumably because the thinking behind it isn't around having a fair ID system, but more motivated by how it may impact voting patterns).

But you're right that there doesn't appear to be a particularly strong need for it. If you want to affect the election results you don't need ballot box fraud anyway; that's more easily done through a complicit press and expensive marketing campaigns.

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Those loveable Tories, again on 09:20 - Oct 16 with 415 viewsGuthrum

And another thing ...

If we want to clean up elections in the UK, it's a far higher priority to tackle the issues of campaign finance and false campaign claims.

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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Those loveable Tories, again on 09:25 - Oct 16 with 394 viewshampstead_blue

Those loveable Tories, again on 09:11 - Oct 16 by chicoazul

This idea that picking up an Amazon delivery is in any way the same as exercising our ancient freedoms as Englishmen is nonsense.


I didn't mention Amazon but I see your point.

Voting is so important that I think it's a decent enough idea. Old fashioned traditions are cool too. You can't win either way.

If having photo ID does make a difference in the most marginal constituencies then it will have proven it's worth.

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Those loveable Tories, again on 09:27 - Oct 16 with 388 viewschicoazul

Those loveable Tories, again on 09:25 - Oct 16 by hampstead_blue

I didn't mention Amazon but I see your point.

Voting is so important that I think it's a decent enough idea. Old fashioned traditions are cool too. You can't win either way.

If having photo ID does make a difference in the most marginal constituencies then it will have proven it's worth.


Voter fraud is so tiny that its fair to say it does not exist. Jerseys is spot on, this is intended to disenfranchise some of the poorest and most vulnerable people in our society.
And my larger point is this is the thin end of the wedge that is being ever-driven into our freedoms and traditions by insane modernisers who hate everything old careworn and proven about our country & its' systems.

Words are a medium that reduces reality to abstraction for transmission to our reason, and in their power to corrode reality inevitably lurks the danger that the words will be corroded too. It might be more appropriate, in fact, to liken their action to excessive stomach fluids that digest and gradually eat away the stomach itself.
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Those loveable Tories, again on 09:29 - Oct 16 with 382 viewshampstead_blue

Those loveable Tories, again on 09:27 - Oct 16 by chicoazul

Voter fraud is so tiny that its fair to say it does not exist. Jerseys is spot on, this is intended to disenfranchise some of the poorest and most vulnerable people in our society.
And my larger point is this is the thin end of the wedge that is being ever-driven into our freedoms and traditions by insane modernisers who hate everything old careworn and proven about our country & its' systems.


I agree with your point in general.
Voting is one area where I'm OK with having ID. I think the postal system is in need of a tweak though.

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Those loveable Tories, again on 09:35 - Oct 16 with 369 viewschicoazul

Those loveable Tories, again on 09:29 - Oct 16 by hampstead_blue

I agree with your point in general.
Voting is one area where I'm OK with having ID. I think the postal system is in need of a tweak though.


Say perhaps you are a down syndrome person, or a person who has suffered a catastrophic illness of the legs. You can't/don't drive and you can't/don't go abroad for holiday. So now you need to get some form of ID to cast your vote.

Words are a medium that reduces reality to abstraction for transmission to our reason, and in their power to corrode reality inevitably lurks the danger that the words will be corroded too. It might be more appropriate, in fact, to liken their action to excessive stomach fluids that digest and gradually eat away the stomach itself.
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Those loveable Tories, again on 09:38 - Oct 16 with 357 viewsGuthrum

Those loveable Tories, again on 09:15 - Oct 16 by Swansea_Blue

Or if you do introduce ID for votes it's done AFTER the introduction of a compulsory, but freely available, ID card system. It's just another really badly thought through idea (presumably because the thinking behind it isn't around having a fair ID system, but more motivated by how it may impact voting patterns).

But you're right that there doesn't appear to be a particularly strong need for it. If you want to affect the election results you don't need ballot box fraud anyway; that's more easily done through a complicit press and expensive marketing campaigns.


Another aspect to this are the questions: "Which parties have most voiciferously been complaining about alleged voter fraud recently?" and "Whose previous voters are the current governing party most trying to attract in the next election?".

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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Those loveable Tories, again on 09:52 - Oct 16 with 343 viewsGuthrum

Those loveable Tories, again on 01:28 - Oct 16 by Oldsmoker

It took until the second page of comments to see mention of postal votes.
This Tory bill will include preventing the 'harvesting' of postal votes which is a problem.

As it stands, postal voting is where any possible fraud could easily take place as no voter ID is required. Fraud via postal votes probably takes place on a much larger scale but what checks are in place to indentify that fraud - absolutely nothing. The application for a postal vote does not require ID and nor does voting via postal vote. Both can be easily used by a third party.
Let's see what the proposed legislation is first.


The big problem with postal voting is the elector is not alone in a polling booth when they complete their ballot, thus perhaps not operating entirely under their own will. Tho it is questionable how big a problem this is in terms of proportion and affecting results (particularly in a General- or By-Election, with the size of constituency).

As at Tower Hamlets, vulnerable people could be coerced, deceived or persuaded into handing them over (even uncompleted) to partisans of one of the candidates. Pressure could be put upon the voter in their own home while filling out their ballot. People can be instructed to apply for a postal vote unnecessarily, in order to facilitate the above. Short of having election officials visit every postal voter to supervise filling in the form, there's little which can be done to remedy the problem.

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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