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Those loveable Tories, again 22:53 - Oct 15 with 3728 viewsBrixtonBlue

The Tories are trying to rig the coming election by insisting you must have photo ID to vote. We have never needed this before, we haven't had problems with fraud, and it will only disenfranchise the poorest from voting, the people who usually vote for Labour. 3.5 million have no photo ID, 11 million have no passport or driving licence.

Just another in the long list of dishonest politics in this country. Are we much worse than the rogue states we often castigate?

Even if you hate Corbyn you should be waking up to what's going on.

Extinction Rebellion have it right IMO. We need direct action to overthrow the absolute charlatans running this country.

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Those loveable Tories, again on 11:11 - Oct 16 with 555 viewsBrixtonBlue

Those loveable Tories, again on 07:40 - Oct 16 by GaryCooper

You believe that all episodes of electoral fraud are captured?


Where have I said that?

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Those loveable Tories, again on 11:13 - Oct 16 with 554 viewsBrixtonBlue

Those loveable Tories, again on 08:17 - Oct 16 by hampstead_blue

JC calling it as it is again!

He's employed a convicted vote rigger into his office!
in addition....
Working with Tariq Mahmood another voting fraudster.....

Photo ID is a great idea. You need it to do most things so why not voting? The right to vote is so important it has to be taken seriously.

Anyhow, councils will issue ID for those who don't have it.


Nothing wrong with it in principle, but why haven't we always had it and why do the Tories want to bring it in now?

These are the questions you should be asking yourself.

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Those loveable Tories, again on 11:16 - Oct 16 with 549 viewsStokieBlue

Those loveable Tories, again on 11:13 - Oct 16 by BrixtonBlue

Nothing wrong with it in principle, but why haven't we always had it and why do the Tories want to bring it in now?

These are the questions you should be asking yourself.


I'm not sure the first question is really valid. If everything was based on "we didn't have it before why do we need it now" then nothing would ever change.

The second one has been answered. They shouldn't bring it in now but as a long-term aspiration there is nothing wrong with the concept.

SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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Those loveable Tories, again on 11:18 - Oct 16 with 546 viewsBrixtonBlue

Those loveable Tories, again on 11:16 - Oct 16 by StokieBlue

I'm not sure the first question is really valid. If everything was based on "we didn't have it before why do we need it now" then nothing would ever change.

The second one has been answered. They shouldn't bring it in now but as a long-term aspiration there is nothing wrong with the concept.

SB


My questions were largely rhetorical. I think we all know why the Tories are trying to bring it in now.

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Those loveable Tories, again on 11:21 - Oct 16 with 546 viewsbaxterbasics

My thoughts, some of which have already been made elsewhere:

1) We can't say this is only a tiny problem when we simply have no way of knowing. There is certainly a perceived problem which is just as important to address.

2) Postal votes are a bigger concern than verifying identity at the polling station.

3) Unfair to accuse tories of rigging when one of the groups potentially disenfranchised - the elderly - are more likely to vote conservative.

4) If an inexpensive or even free ID option is made available then we have no problem. If passport / drivers licence is the only way to vote, then yes criticism is fair.

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Those loveable Tories, again on 11:22 - Oct 16 with 534 viewsHerbivore

Those loveable Tories, again on 11:21 - Oct 16 by baxterbasics

My thoughts, some of which have already been made elsewhere:

1) We can't say this is only a tiny problem when we simply have no way of knowing. There is certainly a perceived problem which is just as important to address.

2) Postal votes are a bigger concern than verifying identity at the polling station.

3) Unfair to accuse tories of rigging when one of the groups potentially disenfranchised - the elderly - are more likely to vote conservative.

4) If an inexpensive or even free ID option is made available then we have no problem. If passport / drivers licence is the only way to vote, then yes criticism is fair.


Point 1 sums up why this country is such a mess.

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Those loveable Tories, again on 11:36 - Oct 16 with 521 viewsDanTheMan

Those loveable Tories, again on 11:22 - Oct 16 by Herbivore

Point 1 sums up why this country is such a mess.


I thought that.

People think there's a problem, even if there isn't, so we should fix the thing that may not be a problem?

Wtf!?

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Those loveable Tories, again on 11:40 - Oct 16 with 514 viewsbaxterbasics

Those loveable Tories, again on 11:36 - Oct 16 by DanTheMan

I thought that.

People think there's a problem, even if there isn't, so we should fix the thing that may not be a problem?

Wtf!?


Perception matters. If faith is undermined in our democratic process, apathy grows and the legitimacy of elections is called into question.

I happen to believe there is a bigger problem than is being acknowledged. Lack of evidence doesn't mean there isn't, and with a more robust system we will at least know for sure.

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Those loveable Tories, again on 11:51 - Oct 16 with 492 viewsHerbivore

Those loveable Tories, again on 11:40 - Oct 16 by baxterbasics

Perception matters. If faith is undermined in our democratic process, apathy grows and the legitimacy of elections is called into question.

I happen to believe there is a bigger problem than is being acknowledged. Lack of evidence doesn't mean there isn't, and with a more robust system we will at least know for sure.


Feels not reals all the way for you, friend. We're screwed.

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Those loveable Tories, again on 13:50 - Oct 16 with 419 viewschicoazul

Those loveable Tories, again on 11:40 - Oct 16 by baxterbasics

Perception matters. If faith is undermined in our democratic process, apathy grows and the legitimacy of elections is called into question.

I happen to believe there is a bigger problem than is being acknowledged. Lack of evidence doesn't mean there isn't, and with a more robust system we will at least know for sure.


"lack of evidence doesnt mean there isnt"
Nor does lack of evidence mean that there is. Although happily we do have some evidence about people caught & convicted of voter fraud. Well, I say "people", I actually mean "a person". Voter fraud does not exist.

Words are a medium that reduces reality to abstraction for transmission to our reason, and in their power to corrode reality inevitably lurks the danger that the words will be corroded too. It might be more appropriate, in fact, to liken their action to excessive stomach fluids that digest and gradually eat away the stomach itself.
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Those loveable Tories, again on 14:00 - Oct 16 with 413 viewsbaxterbasics


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Those loveable Tories, again on 14:06 - Oct 16 with 393 viewsgiant_ullaa

Those loveable Tories, again on 14:00 - Oct 16 by baxterbasics



with friends like George....

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry.
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Those loveable Tories, again on 14:19 - Oct 16 with 368 viewschicoazul

Those loveable Tories, again on 14:00 - Oct 16 by baxterbasics



Oh well if Gorgeous George the Stalinist thinks it then thats me convinced.

Words are a medium that reduces reality to abstraction for transmission to our reason, and in their power to corrode reality inevitably lurks the danger that the words will be corroded too. It might be more appropriate, in fact, to liken their action to excessive stomach fluids that digest and gradually eat away the stomach itself.
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Those loveable Tories, again on 14:23 - Oct 16 with 362 viewsitfcjoe

Those loveable Tories, again on 14:00 - Oct 16 by baxterbasics



He's talking about postal voting - which is a far bigger issue than the one being attacked by the Tories as you won't need an ID card to post a letter

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Those loveable Tories, again on 14:47 - Oct 16 with 335 viewsvilanovablue

Those loveable Tories, again on 11:21 - Oct 16 by baxterbasics

My thoughts, some of which have already been made elsewhere:

1) We can't say this is only a tiny problem when we simply have no way of knowing. There is certainly a perceived problem which is just as important to address.

2) Postal votes are a bigger concern than verifying identity at the polling station.

3) Unfair to accuse tories of rigging when one of the groups potentially disenfranchised - the elderly - are more likely to vote conservative.

4) If an inexpensive or even free ID option is made available then we have no problem. If passport / drivers licence is the only way to vote, then yes criticism is fair.


You could always look at the Electoral Commission stats who specifically investigate voter fraud because it's their job. In 2018 they investigated in excess of 250 alleged cases and there was 1 conviction which suggests to me voter fraud isn't really an issue. If anyone else has any useful stats from a legitimate place I'd be happy to consider those as well.
[Post edited 16 Oct 14:47]
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Those loveable Tories, again on 15:09 - Oct 16 with 313 viewslongtimefan

Those loveable Tories, again on 09:08 - Oct 16 by Herbivore

You need photo ID for most things? Like what? The post office accept a bank card for collecting undelivered mail. The only thing I've had to show photo ID for this year is foreign travel. I don't see why actually having to show your polling card wouldn't be a reasonable solution to what is a tiny problem.


You also need photo I’d for car hire. What I found amusing was that a photo driving licence was not sufficient on its own, you also need to provide a utility bill
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