| London commuters.... on 10:12 - Oct 17 with 2632 views | BackToRussia |
| London commuters.... on 10:03 - Oct 17 by StokieBlue |
I cycle and I love it, although I have bought a new bike so I can use the towpath after being hit by a car down in Whitechapel.
I'm not sure exactly how but if they could improve the cycling infrastructure further I have no doubt that many more people would use it. Unfortunately certain areas (Whitechapel being one) are just awful to cycle though and pretty dangerous.
There needs to be some joined up thinking at government level on this.
SB |
Sorry to hear you got hit Stokie! The roads and pavement need a real rethink, but you're dealing with century's old routes of course, with roads designed for much smaller cars and less traffic. Most roads need to be widened, a cycle lane added half as wide as a car lane and probably another lane for a bus lane, or at least designate an existing lane for buses. There is the national cycle routes as a framework too, they should make more of that. |  |
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| London commuters.... on 10:12 - Oct 17 with 2626 views | giant_stow |
| London commuters.... on 09:59 - Oct 17 by BackToRussia |
If only there were other ways to get around London other than the dlr and the jubilee line. But there aren't. Not a single one. |
A diesel powered bus |  |
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| London commuters.... on 10:14 - Oct 17 with 2612 views | footers |
| London commuters.... on 10:12 - Oct 17 by giant_stow |
I walked 20mins each way to school and have just started work at my desk at home. Does that mean I can't feel solidarity with people affected? And their crime against the planet? To use public transport!!
Bizarre. |
Again you're missing the point.
'Solidarity'... with people being slightly inconvenienced, of which I was one? To the barricades!
P.S. Aren't you a bit old for school? You must look like Angus Young!  |  |
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| London commuters.... on 10:16 - Oct 17 with 2610 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Worth noting that the police have applied section 14 of the Public Order act making assemblies of more than 2 people to protest illegal ! |  |
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| London commuters.... on 10:17 - Oct 17 with 2605 views | BackToRussia |
| London commuters.... on 10:12 - Oct 17 by giant_stow |
A diesel powered bus |
Still, if everyone used them instead of their cars it'd be fine. We just need to go authoritarian and ban people from using cars unless they can prove there's no alternative public transport available. | |
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| London commuters.... on 10:18 - Oct 17 with 2596 views | StokieBlue |
| London commuters.... on 10:12 - Oct 17 by BackToRussia |
Sorry to hear you got hit Stokie! The roads and pavement need a real rethink, but you're dealing with century's old routes of course, with roads designed for much smaller cars and less traffic. Most roads need to be widened, a cycle lane added half as wide as a car lane and probably another lane for a bus lane, or at least designate an existing lane for buses. There is the national cycle routes as a framework too, they should make more of that. |
Thanks! Was some nasty bruising for a month or so but no permanent harm done - also made me take a safer route so probably good in the long run. Luckily I saw what was about to happen and took some action to try and minimise the effects.
You're entirely right that the fact that London is an old and established city means it's difficult to add the infrastructure required. Places like Paris were rebuilt much more recently than London hence it's easier to add the required infrastructure.
I think this would probably be a good place to start with regards to getting more space on the roads:
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/oct/07/a-deadly-problem-should-we-ban-su
I'd love more dedicated cycle lanes to be added but unfortunately I just don't think there is a space. Perhaps cars will be limited to main roads and side roads will be more for cyclists although then there are issues with people getting to their houses and parking.
It's a tricky problem.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| London commuters.... on 10:19 - Oct 17 with 2591 views | Swansea_Blue |
| London commuters.... on 10:16 - Oct 17 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Worth noting that the police have applied section 14 of the Public Order act making assemblies of more than 2 people to protest illegal ! |
No doubt under request from Patel or someone under her watch.
"The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. . . . Power is not a means; it is an end . . . not power over things, but over men. . . . In our world there will be no emotions except fear, rage, triumph, and self-abasement. . . . There will be no loyalty, except loyalty toward the Party. There will be no love, except the love of Big Brother. . . . Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face forever." |  |
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| London commuters.... on 10:20 - Oct 17 with 2587 views | giant_stow |
| London commuters.... on 10:14 - Oct 17 by footers |
Again you're missing the point.
'Solidarity'... with people being slightly inconvenienced, of which I was one? To the barricades!
P.S. Aren't you a bit old for school? You must look like Angus Young! |
Yeah I think I am missing the point. You seem to be saying that joe public doesn't actually need to be convinced, just the powers that be - is that fair? | |
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| London commuters.... on 10:22 - Oct 17 with 2596 views | Guthrum |
There are too many idiots blindly going about their daily lives, unwilling to see the desperate urgency of this climate crisis - or, at least, that is how the ER activists see things. From the other viewpoint, these protesters don't see the urgent necessity of paying rent/mortgages and feeding families.
Two very strong motivators working at cross-purposes. As so often, any degree of compromise and middle ground quickly disappears, resulting in lack of dialogue, alienation of moderate support and other counter-productive things.
The commuters ought to be those the protesters are seeking to attract, the chunk of public opinion which might force the government to act. Having their lives made more difficult is likely to drive them away.
There are many, many people who have been working in different ways for decades to raise public and political consciousness of the environment - successfully. Greta Thunberg, by using mass protest without glueing herself to anything, has ended up in a position where she is activating the next generation and addressing the decision-makers directly. Who is more effective? [Post edited 17 Oct 2019 10:34]
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| London commuters.... on 10:22 - Oct 17 with 2584 views | giant_stow |
| London commuters.... on 10:17 - Oct 17 by BackToRussia |
Still, if everyone used them instead of their cars it'd be fine. We just need to go authoritarian and ban people from using cars unless they can prove there's no alternative public transport available. |
Fine ban cars (I agree with the aims of this) but you need consent for that (at least in the first instance of an environmentally conscious party to gain power) and for consent, you have to persuade. | |
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| London commuters.... on 10:24 - Oct 17 with 2581 views | footers |
| London commuters.... on 10:20 - Oct 17 by giant_stow |
Yeah I think I am missing the point. You seem to be saying that joe public doesn't actually need to be convinced, just the powers that be - is that fair? |
Pretty much. I think most people do care and do what they can, but with the best will in the world going veggie one day a week and recycling household waste isn't going to fix anything. The fact that we're chatting about it and the main papers have been carrying it for weeks should help persuade the government that more needs to be done.
Unfortunately our governments are only driven by the news agenda, so keeping it on the front pages is the most important thing. | |
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| London commuters.... on 10:27 - Oct 17 with 2575 views | Guthrum |
| London commuters.... on 10:17 - Oct 17 by BackToRussia |
Still, if everyone used them instead of their cars it'd be fine. We just need to go authoritarian and ban people from using cars unless they can prove there's no alternative public transport available. |
My car doubles as my work van. Many small tradesmen are the same. Take away my car and I can no longer transport tools and materials.
People who live in rural areas with little or no public transport need cars.
People who are frail or infirm (but not to the extent of being officially disabled) may need a car. | |
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| London commuters.... on 10:29 - Oct 17 with 2568 views | giant_stow |
| London commuters.... on 10:24 - Oct 17 by footers |
Pretty much. I think most people do care and do what they can, but with the best will in the world going veggie one day a week and recycling household waste isn't going to fix anything. The fact that we're chatting about it and the main papers have been carrying it for weeks should help persuade the government that more needs to be done.
Unfortunately our governments are only driven by the news agenda, so keeping it on the front pages is the most important thing. |
The trouble with that is if the XR is characterised as a threat, a bunch of loonies intent on ruining everyday peoples' lives, then it won't matter how much publicity it gets.
Strikes me that *everyone* needs to buy into seriously changing their lifestyles - this isn't just about politics - you can only do that by positive persuasion, or you create enemies and plop all over your cause. [Post edited 17 Oct 2019 10:29]
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| London commuters.... on 10:29 - Oct 17 with 2569 views | Swansea_Blue |
| London commuters.... on 10:22 - Oct 17 by Guthrum |
There are too many idiots blindly going about their daily lives, unwilling to see the desperate urgency of this climate crisis - or, at least, that is how the ER activists see things. From the other viewpoint, these protesters don't see the urgent necessity of paying rent/mortgages and feeding families.
Two very strong motivators working at cross-purposes. As so often, any degree of compromise and middle ground quickly disappears, resulting in lack of dialogue, alienation of moderate support and other counter-productive things.
The commuters ought to be those the protesters are seeking to attract, the chunk of public opinion which might force the government to act. Having their lives made more difficult is likely to drive them away.
There are many, many people who have been working in different ways for decades to raise public and political consciousness of the environment - successfully. Greta Thunberg, by using mass protest without glueing herself to anything, has ended up in a position where she is activating the next generation and addressing the decision-makers directly. Who is more effective? [Post edited 17 Oct 2019 10:34]
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"From the other side, these protesters don't see the urgent necessity of paying rent/mortgages and feeding families"
Of course they do Guthers. They are people too. | |
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| London commuters.... on 10:33 - Oct 17 with 2552 views | footers |
| London commuters.... on 10:29 - Oct 17 by giant_stow |
The trouble with that is if the XR is characterised as a threat, a bunch of loonies intent on ruining everyday peoples' lives, then it won't matter how much publicity it gets.
Strikes me that *everyone* needs to buy into seriously changing their lifestyles - this isn't just about politics - you can only do that by positive persuasion, or you create enemies and plop all over your cause. [Post edited 17 Oct 2019 10:29]
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Who's it being characterised like that by though? The tabloids. The S*n frequently still casts doubt on whether global warming is man-made or not, ffs.
No one's ruining anyone else's life by protesting. But the fact is that according to most climate science we are now at a critical juncture where the changes may be irreversible in the very near future.
You'll never get everyone on board. There are still some who even post on here their very scientific doubts about climate change... If we wait around for those people we're fooked. | |
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| London commuters.... on 10:33 - Oct 17 with 2558 views | Guthrum |
| London commuters.... on 10:29 - Oct 17 by Swansea_Blue |
"From the other side, these protesters don't see the urgent necessity of paying rent/mortgages and feeding families"
Of course they do Guthers. They are people too. |
That bit is about perceptions, not necessarily reality. I'd imagine there are quite a lot of commuters who care about the environment, too.
Edited to improve clarity. [Post edited 17 Oct 2019 10:34]
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| London commuters.... on 11:00 - Oct 17 with 2517 views | GaryCooper |
| London commuters.... on 10:17 - Oct 17 by BackToRussia |
Still, if everyone used them instead of their cars it'd be fine. We just need to go authoritarian and ban people from using cars unless they can prove there's no alternative public transport available. |
Cars need to be limited to no more than 1 per household, 4x4 fours driven by those who are scared of the verge need taxing out of existence, the fekkers even park in disabled bays "because the normal bays are too small", and flying, stop flying all around the world you selfish lot, one return flight per person per year. |  | | |
| London commuters.... on 11:03 - Oct 17 with 2511 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| London commuters.... on 10:19 - Oct 17 by Swansea_Blue |
No doubt under request from Patel or someone under her watch.
"The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. . . . Power is not a means; it is an end . . . not power over things, but over men. . . . In our world there will be no emotions except fear, rage, triumph, and self-abasement. . . . There will be no loyalty, except loyalty toward the Party. There will be no love, except the love of Big Brother. . . . Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face forever." |
In the late 80's just after this act came in a group of 50 of us walking past stonehenge had to split in to groups of 2, 1/2 mile apart a week before the solstice. The smell of freedom was strong in the air on Salisbury plain that day! | |
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| London commuters.... on 11:05 - Oct 17 with 2507 views | BackToRussia |
| London commuters.... on 10:27 - Oct 17 by Guthrum |
My car doubles as my work van. Many small tradesmen are the same. Take away my car and I can no longer transport tools and materials.
People who live in rural areas with little or no public transport need cars.
People who are frail or infirm (but not to the extent of being officially disabled) may need a car. |
That's fine, it'd be easy to thrash out a fair law. Those who can prove they directly use their vehicle for work (and not just get to it) are exempt, but they'd be limited to use it only for work purposes.
Your second point is covered by my original statement that if you can show there is no public transport route then you can use a car.
Thirdly, would argue those people are practically disabled but yes, any disabled or infirm people would be given an exemption too. You're still looking at a huge reduction in number of car users.
Of course, public transport should be heavily expanded from its current state, new bus and train routes, and more regular services, so that it's actually possible to live without a car. | |
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| London commuters.... on 11:07 - Oct 17 with 2498 views | BackToRussia |
| London commuters.... on 10:22 - Oct 17 by giant_stow |
Fine ban cars (I agree with the aims of this) but you need consent for that (at least in the first instance of an environmentally conscious party to gain power) and for consent, you have to persuade. |
It seems weird to have to need people to consent to saving their own futures. Viewed in this way, XR are brave and noble individuals trying to stop someone from walking into traffic, and being roughed up for their troubles. | |
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| London commuters.... on 11:11 - Oct 17 with 2488 views | BackToRussia |
| London commuters.... on 11:00 - Oct 17 by GaryCooper |
Cars need to be limited to no more than 1 per household, 4x4 fours driven by those who are scared of the verge need taxing out of existence, the fekkers even park in disabled bays "because the normal bays are too small", and flying, stop flying all around the world you selfish lot, one return flight per person per year. |
I am certainly in agreement that car ownership and usage needs to be legislated, I'd go a bit further than you. I think you should have to prove you need to buy one at all.
Climate change and emissions have got to the point now where actual laws have to be enacted within the next 5-10 years (and that's being generous) that changes the way we do pretty much everything, and that runs across society, from industry down to individual. It should be viewed as if we were at war and the security of the state is at risk, which it is, and start making preparations now. Unfortunately those in power are utterly unsuited to the task, and have no real interest in doing so, or anything else, beyond saving their own political skins. | |
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| London commuters.... on 11:22 - Oct 17 with 2471 views | BackToRussia |
| London commuters.... on 10:18 - Oct 17 by StokieBlue |
Thanks! Was some nasty bruising for a month or so but no permanent harm done - also made me take a safer route so probably good in the long run. Luckily I saw what was about to happen and took some action to try and minimise the effects.
You're entirely right that the fact that London is an old and established city means it's difficult to add the infrastructure required. Places like Paris were rebuilt much more recently than London hence it's easier to add the required infrastructure.
I think this would probably be a good place to start with regards to getting more space on the roads:
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/oct/07/a-deadly-problem-should-we-ban-su
I'd love more dedicated cycle lanes to be added but unfortunately I just don't think there is a space. Perhaps cars will be limited to main roads and side roads will be more for cyclists although then there are issues with people getting to their houses and parking.
It's a tricky problem.
SB |
Some crazy info in that article about SUV marketing. Just goes to show how we're pointed very much in the wrong direction still in a lot of ways.
Not sure what the solution is as you say, it's very tricky, but as you suggest, some joined up and I think radical thinking is needed. We need to realise that the way we've done stuff in the past has been fundamentally damaging and wrong, and needs to be rewired/tracks torn up.
But yes it'll probably come more from legislating how we use roads rather than making any changes to the road network. | |
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| London commuters.... on 11:28 - Oct 17 with 2460 views | GaryCooper |
| London commuters.... on 11:11 - Oct 17 by BackToRussia |
I am certainly in agreement that car ownership and usage needs to be legislated, I'd go a bit further than you. I think you should have to prove you need to buy one at all.
Climate change and emissions have got to the point now where actual laws have to be enacted within the next 5-10 years (and that's being generous) that changes the way we do pretty much everything, and that runs across society, from industry down to individual. It should be viewed as if we were at war and the security of the state is at risk, which it is, and start making preparations now. Unfortunately those in power are utterly unsuited to the task, and have no real interest in doing so, or anything else, beyond saving their own political skins. |
It has to be cross party agreement, if a party stood on those policies they would not be elected, so yes the idealism of the political parties stops the legislation to save the planet.
Meanwhile Luton airport plans to expand to 32million passengers per year, stop flying you selfish lot!! The world needs to become a larger place again. | | | |
| London commuters.... on 11:48 - Oct 17 with 2438 views | lowhouseblue |
| London commuters.... on 11:28 - Oct 17 by GaryCooper |
It has to be cross party agreement, if a party stood on those policies they would not be elected, so yes the idealism of the political parties stops the legislation to save the planet.
Meanwhile Luton airport plans to expand to 32million passengers per year, stop flying you selfish lot!! The world needs to become a larger place again. |
and turn your heating settings down to 19 degrees. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| London commuters.... on 11:51 - Oct 17 with 2428 views | artsbossbeard |
| London commuters.... on 11:28 - Oct 17 by GaryCooper |
It has to be cross party agreement, if a party stood on those policies they would not be elected, so yes the idealism of the political parties stops the legislation to save the planet.
Meanwhile Luton airport plans to expand to 32million passengers per year, stop flying you selfish lot!! The world needs to become a larger place again. |
Where do you holiday, Gary?
And how do you get to your holiday destination? |  |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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