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Dolly Ponders 13:40 - Oct 17 with 2929 viewsBrixtonBlue

I've been pondering again.

Religious folk believe that God created the universe. Fine. Those of you who are atheists, therefore, must surely believe the possibility that there are (or have been) lots of universes?

My thinking is this - we know a universe can come into being from, essentially, nothing. Because we're in one. And within that universe there is never just one of something. There are at least 2,500 species of moth in the UK alone, for example.

So it seems unlikely that only one universe would have developed. If it can happen as easily as it seems to have - and with no outside influence as you atheists believe - then it should have happened countless times? And presumably evolution would have happened in a similar way in all of these times?

I know the multi-verse theory isn't particularly new, but would you agree that if you don't believe God created one universe then it's highly like there are many, many universes (we just can't see/get to them because we're in this one)? When compared to all other events that are able to happen due to the laws of nature/physics etc. it's surely very very unlikely a universe would only come about just one time ever?

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Dolly Ponders on 14:18 - Oct 17 with 477 viewshomer_123

Dolly Ponders on 14:06 - Oct 17 by Oldsmoker

The problem I have with the universe is that it is big.
Big, Vast, Ginormous, Colossal are words that don't even come close to describe it.
There are billions of Galaxies and within those galaxies are billions of stars each kicking out vast amounts of energy.
I can't do the math but that is a lot of energy and all of that energy, because of the law of physics, has to have been there at the start because energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed.

That's a lot of stuff to come from nothing.


'I can't do the math but that is a lot of energy and all of that energy, because of the law of physics, has to have been there at the start because energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed.'

'... energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed' - this is the interesting piece for me. Currently that is our understanding...currently. That's not to say that there are circumstances in which that doesn't apply and energy, as we know, can be created/destroyed.

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Dolly Ponders on 14:18 - Oct 17 with 474 viewsHerbivore

Don't know, don't really care.

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Dolly Ponders on 14:19 - Oct 17 with 473 viewsBrixtonBlue

Dolly Ponders on 14:12 - Oct 17 by sparks

We dont know if the universe was created or developed from nothing. We dont know if it was easy. We dont know if there is never just one of something. We have no reason to equate the universe with moths or anything else.


"We dont know if the universe was created or developed from nothing."

That's the closest I've seen you come to admitting there could be a God!

We certainly do know there is never just one of something. Everything in the known universe there are several of. So surely it's highly plausible there are/were several universes as well?

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Er... on 14:20 - Oct 17 with 473 viewsDyland

Er... on 14:09 - Oct 17 by BrixtonBlue

It's written in English Dyllers. I'm not sure what else I can do for you.


Well the first sentence is meaningless skippage. And your second sentence has no relevance to what was meaningless skippage in the first place.

You carry on though you lovely loon you.

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Dolly Ponders on 14:20 - Oct 17 with 472 viewsGuthrum

Dolly Ponders on 14:12 - Oct 17 by Darth_Koont

Probably because it is so fundamental.

Maybe it's a universe that expands and contracts back to nothing. From a Big Bang to a Big Crunch. Then starts again from that state. So multiple universes in series not in parallel.


That theory has rather fallen out of favour, as the rate of expansion shows no signs of gravitational slowing down, but instead appears to be accelerating.

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Dolly Ponders on 14:21 - Oct 17 with 476 viewsJ2BLUE

They say history is written by the winners. Maybe god was defeated by satan and maybe the greatest trick the devil ever did was actually convincing people he isn't in charge. Take one look at the world and ask yourself who is more likely to be in charge.


(I don't actually believe anything religious, this post is more about the absurdities of worshipping a god who is allegedly all powerful and yet apparently stands by while all sorts of atrocities are committed)

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Dolly Ponders on 14:21 - Oct 17 with 472 viewsBrixtonBlue

Dolly Ponders on 14:13 - Oct 17 by SpruceMoose

At the bottom of all of these type of questions is a kind of hubris. Our egos are hesitant to accept our own unimportance.


Not quite. If there were multiple universes we'd be even more unimportant!

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Dolly Ponders on 14:22 - Oct 17 with 468 viewsGuthrum

Dolly Ponders on 14:17 - Oct 17 by Oldsmoker

Are you suggesting that there were multiple singularities?
Let me get my brain around that....



There are multiple singularities within our own galaxy - every black hole is one.

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Dolly Ponders on 14:23 - Oct 17 with 466 viewsDarth_Koont

Dolly Ponders on 14:21 - Oct 17 by J2BLUE

They say history is written by the winners. Maybe god was defeated by satan and maybe the greatest trick the devil ever did was actually convincing people he isn't in charge. Take one look at the world and ask yourself who is more likely to be in charge.


(I don't actually believe anything religious, this post is more about the absurdities of worshipping a god who is allegedly all powerful and yet apparently stands by while all sorts of atrocities are committed)


The world is getting better, more democratic, healthier and happier for the most part. Difficult to tell from looking at the UK, I know.
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Dolly Ponders on 14:27 - Oct 17 with 451 viewsJ2BLUE

Dolly Ponders on 14:23 - Oct 17 by Darth_Koont

The world is getting better, more democratic, healthier and happier for the most part. Difficult to tell from looking at the UK, I know.


But god loves all of humanity. Why watch while they go to war with each other? Why watch people starve? Why watch horrible things happen?

Free will? If you had two brothers about to fight to the death would you try and intervene or think oh well they both have free will?

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Dolly Ponders on 14:27 - Oct 17 with 450 viewshomer_123

Dolly Ponders on 14:23 - Oct 17 by Darth_Koont

The world is getting better, more democratic, healthier and happier for the most part. Difficult to tell from looking at the UK, I know.


well, apart from being a tad overcrowded and resources running thin and said populous killing the planet - yeah, it's getting better.

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Dolly Ponders on 14:29 - Oct 17 with 440 viewsOldsmoker

Dolly Ponders on 14:18 - Oct 17 by homer_123

'I can't do the math but that is a lot of energy and all of that energy, because of the law of physics, has to have been there at the start because energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed.'

'... energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed' - this is the interesting piece for me. Currently that is our understanding...currently. That's not to say that there are circumstances in which that doesn't apply and energy, as we know, can be created/destroyed.


That is other peoples understanding but not mine 'cos I don't understand a lot of it.
If black holes suck stuff out of the universe then maybe white holes put stuff in.
Are black holes connections to white holes in other universes?

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Dolly Ponders on 14:30 - Oct 17 with 435 viewsDarth_Koont

Dolly Ponders on 14:27 - Oct 17 by homer_123

well, apart from being a tad overcrowded and resources running thin and said populous killing the planet - yeah, it's getting better.


Yes, the planet's not doing as well as the world.
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Dolly Ponders on 14:34 - Oct 17 with 421 viewspinewoodblueboy

Dolly Ponders on 14:07 - Oct 17 by BrixtonBlue

I just think if it can happen, then over billions upon billions of years there'd surely be another one. Even just a small one! Seems odd to me that something so fundamental would be a one off event.


God created Heaven and Earth in 6 days, then on Sunday was so shagged out he had a couple of beers and thought f##k it, I,ll let them pontificate on a football forum and work it out for themselves. Simples.
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Dolly Ponders on 14:46 - Oct 17 with 398 viewsBrixtonBlue

Dolly Ponders on 14:21 - Oct 17 by J2BLUE

They say history is written by the winners. Maybe god was defeated by satan and maybe the greatest trick the devil ever did was actually convincing people he isn't in charge. Take one look at the world and ask yourself who is more likely to be in charge.


(I don't actually believe anything religious, this post is more about the absurdities of worshipping a god who is allegedly all powerful and yet apparently stands by while all sorts of atrocities are committed)


If the meaning of life is to experience stuff and learn/grow from that experience, then you'd need the horrible stuff as well as the good.

That's how I'd square it if I were religious.

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Dolly Ponders on 14:47 - Oct 17 with 393 viewsJ2BLUE

Dolly Ponders on 14:46 - Oct 17 by BrixtonBlue

If the meaning of life is to experience stuff and learn/grow from that experience, then you'd need the horrible stuff as well as the good.

That's how I'd square it if I were religious.


Makes no sense to me. What would we be learning for? A second go around?

More likely to be a test surely? Create humans in god's image and see if we use our lives for good or bad?

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Dolly Ponders on 14:48 - Oct 17 with 392 viewsBrixtonBlue

Dolly Ponders on 14:34 - Oct 17 by pinewoodblueboy

God created Heaven and Earth in 6 days, then on Sunday was so shagged out he had a couple of beers and thought f##k it, I,ll let them pontificate on a football forum and work it out for themselves. Simples.


He was having more than a couple of beers - humans didn't come along until millions of years later.

Basically God was a massive pisshead.

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Dolly Ponders on 14:50 - Oct 17 with 384 viewsBrixtonBlue

Dolly Ponders on 14:47 - Oct 17 by J2BLUE

Makes no sense to me. What would we be learning for? A second go around?

More likely to be a test surely? Create humans in god's image and see if we use our lives for good or bad?


To be more enlightened beings. We wouldn't appreciate the good if there were no bad.

Could also be a test as you say.

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Dolly Ponders on 14:53 - Oct 17 with 373 viewsHalf_Idiot

Yes, there could be multiple universes, there could be many deceased universes , there could be many universes yet to develop.

But also, the universe we exist in may well be the only one. There is no definite answer, we don't know.

But to counter, did God only create the one universe? If so, why just the one? Why not create more? Where did God come from? Are they a supreme being from another universe or are they just an invisible omnipotent being that belongs nowhere?
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Dolly Ponders on 14:54 - Oct 17 with 369 viewsHerbivore

Dolly Ponders on 14:46 - Oct 17 by BrixtonBlue

If the meaning of life is to experience stuff and learn/grow from that experience, then you'd need the horrible stuff as well as the good.

That's how I'd square it if I were religious.


That's a big if. I doubt there is any meaning of life. It's a rather poorly defined concept, much like Brexit.

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Dolly Ponders on 14:59 - Oct 17 with 365 viewsStokieBlue

There are likely many universes but not for the reason you have put forward.

There are various theories (such as brane theory) with regards to multiple universes, there are also theories on a perpetual universe where is expands and then shrinks and then expands again. Furthermore there are theories than universes colliding create new ones. Nobody knows at the moment.

What I don't understand is your crossing of universes and evolution? They aren't really connected, one happens in the other if the conditions in that specific universe are conductive to life (by no means a given). You can see more about that here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle

I also don't know what any of the above has to do with God.

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Dolly Ponders on 15:04 - Oct 17 with 351 viewsBrianTablet

Dolly Ponders on 13:43 - Oct 17 by factual_blue

It's easier to believe the Giant's Causeway is 6,000 years old.


It's vulgar talk like that which gives ignorance and bigotry a bad name.

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Dolly Ponders on 15:36 - Oct 17 with 330 viewsjaykay

Dolly Ponders on 14:50 - Oct 17 by BrixtonBlue

To be more enlightened beings. We wouldn't appreciate the good if there were no bad.

Could also be a test as you say.


when good things happens religious people say thank god , when bad things happen its peoples fault
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Dolly Ponders on 16:19 - Oct 17 with 304 viewsBryanPlug

"The Universe is all of space and time and their contents, including planets, stars, galaxies, and all other forms of matter and energy."

Must be true it was copied from Wikipedia. Therefore, if the universe is essentially everything, then by it's very nature there can only be one of it.

It's a bit like asking if there is more than one infinity.
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Dolly Ponders on 16:20 - Oct 17 with 304 viewsKropotkin123

It didn't come from essentially nothing. You can see the big bang and therefore see it came from something - a point of singularity or something similar - not nothing.

You can have different types of singularity. We know this from black holes. You can have a singularity or spinning singularity (Ringularity). If a ringularity existed at the centre of the big bang, then many more with vastly different universes could exist.

One day, we will not be able to see the universe beyond the local group. It may be that in the same way that if a species existed then wouldn't be able to see other galaxies, we can't see other universes. But at some point, it may have been perfectly plausible to see the other universes.

When it comes to a god. I don't really care either way. I don't think it matters to the points raised. All is possible with or without a creator. Just unlikely the creator written in books, due to the inconsistences with out scientific understanding

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