| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? 09:26 - Oct 22 with 14549 views | monytowbray |
At first having a good job was nice, disposable income after years of cr@p jobs. But 8 years of it, watching incompetent people with capital get rich off building teams of skilled people and then flogging it to an early retirement, realising you're just a pawn in a system that rewards privilege more than hard work, dealing with people who think life is nothing but the numbers on an ATM screen and define self worth/motivation. It's really starting to drain me on the inside. The stress and internal office politics on top of that also.
I've always judged life by how happy I am rather than what's in my pocket. I'm doing better financially than ever and honestly I don't think I've ever felt so jaded, miserable and defeated by life. Like I'm trotting along on a train where I don't fit in and heading somewhere I'm really MEH about getting there.
Am I alone in thinking this? I feel like a lot of my close friends align but a lot of them are hippies and punks who are fairly fulfilled in live living the minimalist way with a socialist outlook and rejecting social norms. But is this something the wider world of "normies" also suffer from? |  |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 09:39 - Oct 22 with 4734 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Speaking as one person who took early retirement by 'flogging off' a business, I have to say at the moment yes it is extremely depressing - but largely because our system is rotten from the top down - and getting worse exponentially under a government with open contempt for the law as well as the people. Your broad brushstrokes probably does a disservice to people who built up a business at high risk to themselves - and their family life - and probably over-rewarded the staff who 'inherited' the business. Jeremy Clarkson wrote a good piece on modern business financial philosophy in this weeks Sunday Times. |  |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 09:47 - Oct 22 with 4693 views | monytowbray |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 09:39 - Oct 22 by ElephantintheRoom |
Speaking as one person who took early retirement by 'flogging off' a business, I have to say at the moment yes it is extremely depressing - but largely because our system is rotten from the top down - and getting worse exponentially under a government with open contempt for the law as well as the people. Your broad brushstrokes probably does a disservice to people who built up a business at high risk to themselves - and their family life - and probably over-rewarded the staff who 'inherited' the business. Jeremy Clarkson wrote a good piece on modern business financial philosophy in this weeks Sunday Times. |
Oh, don't get me wrong, I've met some lovely and smart business owners who know what they're doing. But I've also encountered a mix of idiot shareholders and boards who are so cut off from the working day and challenges they make poor choices which in turn cause the business to fail and they come out fine whilst everyone else suffers. Thomas Cook and HMV are good examples of this.
I don't think it helps I've recently watched Sorry To Bother You, Us and that Netflix Explained episode on Billionaires which just add to the narrative of how I'm feeling. This whole idea that we should allow people with money to behave how they like and treat people how they want to because they've paid their dues and we should all aspire to be filthy rich and f*ck people over. I just don't buy into it, I'd happily have less money to live in a fairer world but it seems the general attitude is "This is my step on the ladder and you can all f*ck off getting a hand up." A lot of wealthy people got there by screwing people over or privilege anyway, yet we create this idea that the numbers in their bank somehow dictate their worth and right to be arses.
Perhaps I'm having an early mid life crisis? | |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 09:50 - Oct 22 with 4681 views | Bent_double |
Yes.
It's gone too far now, everything seems to be about materialism: got to have the latest phone, got to have all the life 'experiences', got to wear the latest fashions, all the while we are destroying the planet, and probably more than half the human population live in poverty, scratching around for food just trying to exist. There are places such as Syria that are so depressing, where people - kids - have absolutely nothing and no hope of a future as bombs drop around them everyday.
I gave up my IT life in the City 13 years ago, primarily because of my wifes health, but I was struggling inside like you are, thinking, 'what am I doing, working for my bosses/shareholders, doing a meaningless job that I hate?'
I'm self-employed now, and it's still stressful, and I still worry about money (who doesn't?), but it feels more real, and I'm happier for it, so sounds to be like you might want to consider a major life change - not easy I know, but you'll feel better for it. |  |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 09:53 - Oct 22 with 4652 views | footers |
Get back to work. |  |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 09:53 - Oct 22 with 4650 views | monytowbray |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 09:50 - Oct 22 by Bent_double |
Yes.
It's gone too far now, everything seems to be about materialism: got to have the latest phone, got to have all the life 'experiences', got to wear the latest fashions, all the while we are destroying the planet, and probably more than half the human population live in poverty, scratching around for food just trying to exist. There are places such as Syria that are so depressing, where people - kids - have absolutely nothing and no hope of a future as bombs drop around them everyday.
I gave up my IT life in the City 13 years ago, primarily because of my wifes health, but I was struggling inside like you are, thinking, 'what am I doing, working for my bosses/shareholders, doing a meaningless job that I hate?'
I'm self-employed now, and it's still stressful, and I still worry about money (who doesn't?), but it feels more real, and I'm happier for it, so sounds to be like you might want to consider a major life change - not easy I know, but you'll feel better for it. |
I think that's the way I'm heading to with working for myself eventually. I also think you're into something with the city being depressing. You meet people who ask you what you do for a living before they even ask your name. What's that all about?
I had a friend recently go freelance and charge almost what I earn a month for 4 days work. And she lives outside of London where it's cheaper to be. I'm sat here thinking I'm mad, I've paid my dues and got my skill set. | |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 10:07 - Oct 22 with 4595 views | itfcjoe |
Happiness is most important for me, and probably most but I guess a lot of people think that having more money makes them happier. I find the problem with that attitude is that you will always chase more money but never find it.
True happiness is from family and friends though, I am happy with my life and wouldn't change it - but also have the security that a good job, a good amount of equity in house, and support from parents on both sides if we were to need it and that security ensures that if everything goes tits up I won't be out on my ear.
I don't have to travel or commute to work, and whilst at times am jaded it is much easier to be jaded with money in the bank. The travelling every day is just dead time to think about how much better it would be to stay at home!
But making money is hard on your own, and doing things you enjoy doesn't pay the bills unless you are lucky. And living in more expensive areas is more fun if you want to do more so it becomes a catch-22. |  |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 10:11 - Oct 22 with 4574 views | itfcjoe |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 09:53 - Oct 22 by monytowbray |
I think that's the way I'm heading to with working for myself eventually. I also think you're into something with the city being depressing. You meet people who ask you what you do for a living before they even ask your name. What's that all about?
I had a friend recently go freelance and charge almost what I earn a month for 4 days work. And she lives outside of London where it's cheaper to be. I'm sat here thinking I'm mad, I've paid my dues and got my skill set. |
London is seen as the be all and end all by lots, when I have been to school reunions outside of my friends unless you work in London you are almost looked down upon. My job is far more 'exciting' than most with regards to actually doing tangible things but feels like if I worked the night shift at the McDonalds outside Brixton station more people would be interested!
The City is a young mans game for me, I never made it, and do to an extent regret that with the opportunites it can bring, but there is definitely a time to cash your chips in once you get to a certain level and work from home and out of it | |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 10:13 - Oct 22 with 4554 views | BrixtonBlue |
Excellent post. Sounds like you want to vote Labour, as that's their thing (though whether they can get anywhere close to it or not is another debate). Worth a try though, IMO.
I think life-worth is in the people you love, particularly your partner (if you're lucky enough to have one/a good one). I put up with the world as it is, and doing a job that isn't exactly saving lives or anything, because the money allows me to do nice things with her. I think nothing else matters.
Pursuing other things that make you happy (in my case art and writing) help too. And being silly and refusing to grow up.
Sounds like you have plenty of material for songs, anyway. |  |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 10:16 - Oct 22 with 4538 views | sparks |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 10:07 - Oct 22 by itfcjoe |
Happiness is most important for me, and probably most but I guess a lot of people think that having more money makes them happier. I find the problem with that attitude is that you will always chase more money but never find it.
True happiness is from family and friends though, I am happy with my life and wouldn't change it - but also have the security that a good job, a good amount of equity in house, and support from parents on both sides if we were to need it and that security ensures that if everything goes tits up I won't be out on my ear.
I don't have to travel or commute to work, and whilst at times am jaded it is much easier to be jaded with money in the bank. The travelling every day is just dead time to think about how much better it would be to stay at home!
But making money is hard on your own, and doing things you enjoy doesn't pay the bills unless you are lucky. And living in more expensive areas is more fun if you want to do more so it becomes a catch-22. |
Whilst i fully understand the feelings which stem from the daily grind, there seems to be a massive overlay of resentment and bitter envy here, not all of which is well placed.
Some people love work. Many of us would really rather not have to. We do it to achieve a place in life where we can enjoy other stuff fully. The balance is near impossible but gets easier with success and progression if you want it to. If you get on that treadmill later than most its going to take longer to get there. Its a choice you have to make. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 10:17 - Oct 22 with 4530 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 10:07 - Oct 22 by itfcjoe |
Happiness is most important for me, and probably most but I guess a lot of people think that having more money makes them happier. I find the problem with that attitude is that you will always chase more money but never find it.
True happiness is from family and friends though, I am happy with my life and wouldn't change it - but also have the security that a good job, a good amount of equity in house, and support from parents on both sides if we were to need it and that security ensures that if everything goes tits up I won't be out on my ear.
I don't have to travel or commute to work, and whilst at times am jaded it is much easier to be jaded with money in the bank. The travelling every day is just dead time to think about how much better it would be to stay at home!
But making money is hard on your own, and doing things you enjoy doesn't pay the bills unless you are lucky. And living in more expensive areas is more fun if you want to do more so it becomes a catch-22. |
Another excellent post - although I'd argue travelling doesn't have to be dead time. I cycle to work, so that's exercise. But on occasions when I don't cycle, I read. And unless you're reading The Sun or The Daily Mail, reading is never dead time. In fact the problem with cycling is my reading has dropped hugely. | |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 10:23 - Oct 22 with 4510 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 10:11 - Oct 22 by itfcjoe |
London is seen as the be all and end all by lots, when I have been to school reunions outside of my friends unless you work in London you are almost looked down upon. My job is far more 'exciting' than most with regards to actually doing tangible things but feels like if I worked the night shift at the McDonalds outside Brixton station more people would be interested!
The City is a young mans game for me, I never made it, and do to an extent regret that with the opportunites it can bring, but there is definitely a time to cash your chips in once you get to a certain level and work from home and out of it |
'Interesting' is definitely a word you could use to describe Brixton McDonalds. I've often thought working on the counter in there at 4am must be the most horrendous job I can imagine. | |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 10:37 - Oct 22 with 4457 views | Darth_Koont |
*This is particularly aimed at working in offices where the notion of what you are actually doing and why becomes much more abstract than if you're a nurse, a teacher, a brickie, a farm labourer etc.*
That feeling of having purpose at work is key. And often that's why small companies are great because without that purpose they've got nothing of value to build.
Problem often comes, as you say, when people are trying to monetize that purpose to grow bigger or cash in on the value by selling. 9 times out of 10 I'd say that earlier purpose tends to be eroded or at least diluted by other people getting involved (managers, investors, shareholders) whose purpose is advancing their career and/or making money which doesn't qualify as a purpose in any real sense.
Unfortunately most people in the UK are not working in vocational jobs and most of these are working in jobs with managers, investors or shareholders all looking to extract value from the work. The good news is that many companies are understanding more and more that the workplace and the purpose of the work is increasingly important. Not just to make people's lives feel better at work but to make them productive and retain them. There's a long way to go on that score but if companies don't provide a more stimulating and rewarding environment for their workers then they'll be left behind. |  |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 10:43 - Oct 22 with 4411 views | monytowbray |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 10:16 - Oct 22 by sparks |
Whilst i fully understand the feelings which stem from the daily grind, there seems to be a massive overlay of resentment and bitter envy here, not all of which is well placed.
Some people love work. Many of us would really rather not have to. We do it to achieve a place in life where we can enjoy other stuff fully. The balance is near impossible but gets easier with success and progression if you want it to. If you get on that treadmill later than most its going to take longer to get there. Its a choice you have to make. |
I'm not bitter or resentful of anyone with money. I've never really cared much about what others are doing in life unless if affects me or others unfairly. I have nothing to whinge about with my salary (beyond the usual challenges my generation face like the likelihood of owning property), just personally feel deflated.
I don't think being single and working 40 hours a week is good for anyone. We need to sack that off ASAP. There's not enough time in the day to work, cook, do chores, stay in shape, rest and do fun things, particularly when you're struggling to motivate as it is. That system is a dated idea based on everyone being married young and having free labour (usually a wife, yay patriarchy) at home to do it all. How working couples with kids cope is beyond me, but it seems a fair amount basically don't. A recent Twitter thread I saw confirmed I'm not alone in feeling that way. | |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 10:46 - Oct 22 with 4388 views | monytowbray |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 10:37 - Oct 22 by Darth_Koont |
*This is particularly aimed at working in offices where the notion of what you are actually doing and why becomes much more abstract than if you're a nurse, a teacher, a brickie, a farm labourer etc.*
That feeling of having purpose at work is key. And often that's why small companies are great because without that purpose they've got nothing of value to build.
Problem often comes, as you say, when people are trying to monetize that purpose to grow bigger or cash in on the value by selling. 9 times out of 10 I'd say that earlier purpose tends to be eroded or at least diluted by other people getting involved (managers, investors, shareholders) whose purpose is advancing their career and/or making money which doesn't qualify as a purpose in any real sense.
Unfortunately most people in the UK are not working in vocational jobs and most of these are working in jobs with managers, investors or shareholders all looking to extract value from the work. The good news is that many companies are understanding more and more that the workplace and the purpose of the work is increasingly important. Not just to make people's lives feel better at work but to make them productive and retain them. There's a long way to go on that score but if companies don't provide a more stimulating and rewarding environment for their workers then they'll be left behind. |
Spot on. I've sadly experienced a few that claim to be all that and it's a cover for the above you stated though. Offering Thursday morning yoga if I come in at 8am or the odd big Summer Party (which I call "Forced Enjoyment") isn't going to change the way I look at my job. [Post edited 22 Oct 2019 10:48]
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 10:52 - Oct 22 with 4349 views | itfcjoe |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 10:43 - Oct 22 by monytowbray |
I'm not bitter or resentful of anyone with money. I've never really cared much about what others are doing in life unless if affects me or others unfairly. I have nothing to whinge about with my salary (beyond the usual challenges my generation face like the likelihood of owning property), just personally feel deflated.
I don't think being single and working 40 hours a week is good for anyone. We need to sack that off ASAP. There's not enough time in the day to work, cook, do chores, stay in shape, rest and do fun things, particularly when you're struggling to motivate as it is. That system is a dated idea based on everyone being married young and having free labour (usually a wife, yay patriarchy) at home to do it all. How working couples with kids cope is beyond me, but it seems a fair amount basically don't. A recent Twitter thread I saw confirmed I'm not alone in feeling that way. |
There is a point of wealth where it is just obscene, and indefensible how much money some people have though - I'm not resentful of them personally but it is just totally wrong.
Amazon are a company with dreadful working conditions, and the owner is worth $168bn - I saw some stats on it the other day, along the lines of how obscene it is:
"If you made $1.3M/day since USA’s founding in 1776, paid 0 taxes, spent 0–Jeff Bezos would still be wealthier than you
Today 43M Americans live in poverty, 260M live paycheck to paycheck, & wealth inequality is worse than before the Great Depression"
"Jeff Bezos could give every single one of his workers a quarter million dollars, and he'd still be a billionaire."
I'm not suggesting he gives his money away, but any system that ends up with that inequality is clearly wrong.
My wife used to work for a Russian ogliarch, and again just obscene spending levels, thousands and thousands of pounds wasted on a daily basis.
I'm not a socialist, but there is clearly a balance between the two which is nowhere near being found currently with small state and low taxes at the top end.
And re working couple with kids, mine goes back to work shortly - it's bloody hard and expensive | |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 11:09 - Oct 22 with 4268 views | Darth_Koont |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 10:46 - Oct 22 by monytowbray |
Spot on. I've sadly experienced a few that claim to be all that and it's a cover for the above you stated though. Offering Thursday morning yoga if I come in at 8am or the odd big Summer Party (which I call "Forced Enjoyment") isn't going to change the way I look at my job. [Post edited 22 Oct 2019 10:48]
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I've done a few branding projects for companies in different industries and in a majority of cases I'd say that the underlying goal of them is to motivate employees. Often the company's purpose, its "why do we do what we do", becomes the focus.
Which is all well and good. Cynics might say that the purpose of a company is always to make money or always deliver for shareholders but in reality that's the result of creating value/having a purpose.
The issue I have though is many of these companies want to talk about purpose, paying lip service to it, but not actually do anything. I find myself frequently having to remind the customer that they need to walk the walk too and that words are just that. But that conversation has become easier and easier over the years - there's still a long way to go but companies are actually investing time and money in engaging their employees and making sure they have a purpose to share, looking after their health and wellbeing, being ethical and sustainable etc.
Going off on a slight tangent here, but I think that's a lot to do with the democratization of information on the Internet. Bad news travels fast and companies can't hide who they really are anymore. For the public/consumers, shareholders and future employees.
Edit: I was thinking about your company's activities but if those activities aren't connected to purpose at work then they're just another form of compensation. Arguably, they're a waste of money as motivation. [Post edited 22 Oct 2019 11:13]
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 11:11 - Oct 22 with 4271 views | sparks |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 10:43 - Oct 22 by monytowbray |
I'm not bitter or resentful of anyone with money. I've never really cared much about what others are doing in life unless if affects me or others unfairly. I have nothing to whinge about with my salary (beyond the usual challenges my generation face like the likelihood of owning property), just personally feel deflated.
I don't think being single and working 40 hours a week is good for anyone. We need to sack that off ASAP. There's not enough time in the day to work, cook, do chores, stay in shape, rest and do fun things, particularly when you're struggling to motivate as it is. That system is a dated idea based on everyone being married young and having free labour (usually a wife, yay patriarchy) at home to do it all. How working couples with kids cope is beyond me, but it seems a fair amount basically don't. A recent Twitter thread I saw confirmed I'm not alone in feeling that way. |
40 hours is not particularly heavy. Many work far more. We'd all like to be part time. Its a choice you can make but involves sacrifice financially.
You suck it up and get on with it or you choose not to. The world isnt ideal but it doesnt owe us a living either.
We all want the moon on a stick. Very few get it. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 11:29 - Oct 22 with 4199 views | SaleAway |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 11:11 - Oct 22 by sparks |
40 hours is not particularly heavy. Many work far more. We'd all like to be part time. Its a choice you can make but involves sacrifice financially.
You suck it up and get on with it or you choose not to. The world isnt ideal but it doesnt owe us a living either.
We all want the moon on a stick. Very few get it. |
Yeah, I would say 40 hours a week leaves a lot of time to do other things.
I work a 40 hour week - have time to fit in some sort of exercise most days. I do the shopping & cooking. Chores are shared with the wife, but to be honest, if I was single, don't think it would make a massive difference, as I'd probably have a smaller house and so less to do.
Plenty of time left for a bit of tv, reading, socialising.
I get what you're saying about whether its all worth it - but the way I have always looked at it is. I have to work... I need money. I have a job which is reasonably interesting, not too stressful, and pays well enough to allow me to have fun, without causing me too much stress. I could earn more, but I'd probably not have the time to enjoy it.
Work to live....
I think the world could be a much more balanced place... and our current system is a bit broken, but there's still a good life to be had for a lot of people. | |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 11:38 - Oct 22 with 4151 views | crunchie1978 |
No matter what job you have or what income you get we are all essentially hamsters on a wheel. | | | |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 11:45 - Oct 22 with 4126 views | Reuser_is_God |
Work is sh1t unless you're at the very top.
Take on more & more responsibility & if you're lucky you might get a 2k pay rise. |  |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 11:49 - Oct 22 with 4097 views | lowhouseblue |
are you rich enough to be a hippie though? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 11:59 - Oct 22 with 4052 views | monytowbray |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 11:49 - Oct 22 by lowhouseblue |
are you rich enough to be a hippie though? |
Most my hippy mates are pretty skint but happy. Yeah life gets challenging at times but they take great pride in being frugal and loving nature. | |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 12:00 - Oct 22 with 4047 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 11:45 - Oct 22 by Reuser_is_God |
Work is sh1t unless you're at the very top.
Take on more & more responsibility & if you're lucky you might get a 2k pay rise. |
Well this just isn't true. | |
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| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 12:02 - Oct 22 with 4040 views | longtimefan |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 11:11 - Oct 22 by sparks |
40 hours is not particularly heavy. Many work far more. We'd all like to be part time. Its a choice you can make but involves sacrifice financially.
You suck it up and get on with it or you choose not to. The world isnt ideal but it doesnt owe us a living either.
We all want the moon on a stick. Very few get it. |
When I first started work the official hours were a 42.5 hr working week, but that was it! Now its officially 37.5 hrs but lucky if its works out less than 50  | | | |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 12:03 - Oct 22 with 4027 views | lowhouseblue |
| Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? on 11:59 - Oct 22 by monytowbray |
Most my hippy mates are pretty skint but happy. Yeah life gets challenging at times but they take great pride in being frugal and loving nature. |
absoltely. but for lots of people who've been used to having income it's a tough transition. and there are also posh hippies who are able to live on low incmes because they have lots of capital (house and land already paid for etc etc). being a posh hippie sounds the best to me. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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