| Anyone know any good ditches? on 09:39 - Oct 28 with 3754 views | Herbivore |
So it'll be a GE, Boris wins the election and we end up with a horrible right wing Tory government that ends up driving through either a no deal in a year's time or that agrees some sort of FTA that gives us wiggle room to become a horribly deregulated satellite state of the US. Good times. |  |
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| Anyone know any good ditches? on 09:40 - Oct 28 with 3746 views | footers |
Priti Patel.
Oh, you said ditches. |  |
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| Anyone know any good ditches? on 09:41 - Oct 28 with 3745 views | StokieBlue |
Isn't this good for Boris though?
The spectre of no-deal is gone until Jan 2020 so Labour don't really have anywhere else to go with regards to accepting an election which is what Boris wants. It's not what he promised his supporters but he will say that he tried, he got a deal but parliament stopped him.
So rather worryingly this could all work out exactly how he wants?
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Anyone know any good ditches? on 09:48 - Oct 28 with 3707 views | Bluefish |
| Anyone know any good ditches? on 09:39 - Oct 28 by Herbivore |
So it'll be a GE, Boris wins the election and we end up with a horrible right wing Tory government that ends up driving through either a no deal in a year's time or that agrees some sort of FTA that gives us wiggle room to become a horribly deregulated satellite state of the US. Good times. |
Makes you wonder how Corbyn and McDonnell can continue, the Tory party are a shambles but trampling over everything and our opposition have absolutely nothing over them. The idea of staying neutral to not get embroiled so they can sweep to power in the aftermath of mess has gone horribly wrong. By not having a position they are also not able to hold any higher ground and the Tories can swing wildly wherever they want. The fact Boris has said and done all of this and still remains favourite is hugely embarrassing for Labour and disappointing for the country. Hopefully the public will speak and the Lib Dems will be the real winners. |  |
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| Anyone know any good ditches? on 09:54 - Oct 28 with 3685 views | Steve_M |
| Anyone know any good ditches? on 09:41 - Oct 28 by StokieBlue |
Isn't this good for Boris though?
The spectre of no-deal is gone until Jan 2020 so Labour don't really have anywhere else to go with regards to accepting an election which is what Boris wants. It's not what he promised his supporters but he will say that he tried, he got a deal but parliament stopped him.
So rather worryingly this could all work out exactly how he wants?
SB |
It's a risk but had he not staked so much on promising Brexit by 31 October then it might be ideal for him but ultimately it leaves him vulnerable to Farage on the other front.
I think the deal gets passed with Labour votes at some point otherwise, MPs happily believing promises that will be discarded instantly is a particularly stupid act of political judgement but there we go. |  |
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| Anyone know any good ditches? on 09:59 - Oct 28 with 3656 views | StokieBlue |
| Anyone know any good ditches? on 09:54 - Oct 28 by Steve_M |
It's a risk but had he not staked so much on promising Brexit by 31 October then it might be ideal for him but ultimately it leaves him vulnerable to Farage on the other front.
I think the deal gets passed with Labour votes at some point otherwise, MPs happily believing promises that will be discarded instantly is a particularly stupid act of political judgement but there we go. |
So you think it gets passed with Labour votes and then there is a GE?
How does that play out for Labour - they have essentially passed the deal and facilitated Brexit so going to be hard to appeal to remainers especially given they said they would get their own deal and them campaign based on that.
All a bit of a mess - hard to see Boris not doing well out of most of the scenarios.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Anyone know any good ditches? on 10:02 - Oct 28 with 3642 views | itfcjoe |
| Anyone know any good ditches? on 09:39 - Oct 28 by Herbivore |
So it'll be a GE, Boris wins the election and we end up with a horrible right wing Tory government that ends up driving through either a no deal in a year's time or that agrees some sort of FTA that gives us wiggle room to become a horribly deregulated satellite state of the US. Good times. |
This is a good piece on why, on balance, pushing for a GE could be the best thing to do for Remain
https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/10/24/remain-should-push-for-an-election |  |
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| Anyone know any good ditches? on 10:11 - Oct 28 with 3615 views | StokieBlue |
That whole piece is basically saying JC is a good campaigner so maybe Boris won't win.
That is a possibility but it's just as easy to take the view that JC already persuaded most the people who were going to be persuaded in the last election and since then his position on Brexit has been so woolly he's likely alienated some he previous persuaded.
It's not an infinite pool of voters he can convert every election.
A Boris majority is a real worry.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Anyone know any good ditches? on 10:13 - Oct 28 with 3607 views | ITFC_Forever |
| Anyone know any good ditches? on 09:39 - Oct 28 by Herbivore |
So it'll be a GE, Boris wins the election and we end up with a horrible right wing Tory government that ends up driving through either a no deal in a year's time or that agrees some sort of FTA that gives us wiggle room to become a horribly deregulated satellite state of the US. Good times. |
Boris won't win the election..... the Conservatives will lose votes from remainers to the Lib Dems, and from the leavers to Farage.
Labour are incapable of challenging and their sit back and wait approach has rendered them impotent, so they too will lose votes to the Lib Dems.
It will be a hung parliament and more deadlock. |  |
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| Anyone know any good ditches? on 10:15 - Oct 28 with 3592 views | Bluefish |
| Anyone know any good ditches? on 10:13 - Oct 28 by ITFC_Forever |
Boris won't win the election..... the Conservatives will lose votes from remainers to the Lib Dems, and from the leavers to Farage.
Labour are incapable of challenging and their sit back and wait approach has rendered them impotent, so they too will lose votes to the Lib Dems.
It will be a hung parliament and more deadlock. |
On the plus side thinking about when we are getting made redundant is better than actually getting made redundant | |
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| Anyone know any good ditches? on 10:17 - Oct 28 with 3589 views | Steve_M |
| Anyone know any good ditches? on 09:59 - Oct 28 by StokieBlue |
So you think it gets passed with Labour votes and then there is a GE?
How does that play out for Labour - they have essentially passed the deal and facilitated Brexit so going to be hard to appeal to remainers especially given they said they would get their own deal and them campaign based on that.
All a bit of a mess - hard to see Boris not doing well out of most of the scenarios.
SB |
Well, quite. Most scenarios are pretty bad for Labour at the moment. Their clueless approach is a large part of why we're where we are, especially now we add the so-called Labour Leavers to the leadership inadequacies I can't see the 19 or so who vote for a deal either securing their own seats in every case nor helping the leadership.
I imagine that tactical voting will see another hung parliament with the Tories the largest party but that's been the case ever since the 2017 election. Until Corbyn goes then there is no chance of them looking a viable government in waiting. It might even take a lot more than that. | |
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| Anyone know any good ditches? on 10:21 - Oct 28 with 3570 views | Darth_Koont |
| Anyone know any good ditches? on 09:41 - Oct 28 by StokieBlue |
Isn't this good for Boris though?
The spectre of no-deal is gone until Jan 2020 so Labour don't really have anywhere else to go with regards to accepting an election which is what Boris wants. It's not what he promised his supporters but he will say that he tried, he got a deal but parliament stopped him.
So rather worryingly this could all work out exactly how he wants?
SB |
It's what we deserve unfortunately.
We've been far too passive in letting the right-wing loons and nationalists capitalise on the country's problems and divisions. Problems that other right-wingers have caused. And we've been led up the garden path by a complicit or at least uncritical media.
It's still not too late. But the prospect of Johnson's government setting the agenda for the next 5 years (especially with the Brexit Party in the wings) *should* be an almighty wake-up call. |  |
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| Anyone know any good ditches? on 10:23 - Oct 28 with 3558 views | Guthrum |
| Anyone know any good ditches? on 09:59 - Oct 28 by StokieBlue |
So you think it gets passed with Labour votes and then there is a GE?
How does that play out for Labour - they have essentially passed the deal and facilitated Brexit so going to be hard to appeal to remainers especially given they said they would get their own deal and them campaign based on that.
All a bit of a mess - hard to see Boris not doing well out of most of the scenarios.
SB |
OTOH, it clears the air for an election about social issues and austerity, on which Labour (and Corbyn) are considerably stronger than Johnson's Conservatives. Plus the latter have lost their trump card of "getting Brexit done", while having upset the DUP and not being hard enough for the Faragists. |  |
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| Anyone know any good ditches? on 10:25 - Oct 28 with 3538 views | itfcjoe |
| Anyone know any good ditches? on 10:11 - Oct 28 by StokieBlue |
That whole piece is basically saying JC is a good campaigner so maybe Boris won't win.
That is a possibility but it's just as easy to take the view that JC already persuaded most the people who were going to be persuaded in the last election and since then his position on Brexit has been so woolly he's likely alienated some he previous persuaded.
It's not an infinite pool of voters he can convert every election.
A Boris majority is a real worry.
SB |
There's a lot more to it than that - and the point about the cliff edge of a Brexit deal passing keeps happening, and at some point it will and it will be baselined from Boris' deal.
What is the worst that can happen if there is an election? We end up with a Tory majority and Boris gets his deal through - that is where we are heading anyway in reality.
Tories are going to need to win a load of Labour Leave seats up North, when you listen to Labour MPs anecdotally from these regions, the angry Leave voters haven't been voting for Labour for a while anyway - it is a massive task for them to get out and get these people to tick the box for the Tories.
Any hung parliament will see the Tories unable to form a Government because no one will work with them | |
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| Anyone know any good ditches? on 10:27 - Oct 28 with 3529 views | StokieBlue |
| Anyone know any good ditches? on 10:25 - Oct 28 by itfcjoe |
There's a lot more to it than that - and the point about the cliff edge of a Brexit deal passing keeps happening, and at some point it will and it will be baselined from Boris' deal.
What is the worst that can happen if there is an election? We end up with a Tory majority and Boris gets his deal through - that is where we are heading anyway in reality.
Tories are going to need to win a load of Labour Leave seats up North, when you listen to Labour MPs anecdotally from these regions, the angry Leave voters haven't been voting for Labour for a while anyway - it is a massive task for them to get out and get these people to tick the box for the Tories.
Any hung parliament will see the Tories unable to form a Government because no one will work with them |
I think that's reading the article how you want to read it.
"What is the worst that can happen if there is an election? We end up with a Tory majority and Boris gets his deal through - that is where we are heading anyway in reality"
No. The worst that can happen is he gets a majority and he gets 5 years of doing whatever he wants. Dubious trade deals with the US for instance.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Anyone know any good ditches? on 10:29 - Oct 28 with 3529 views | StokieBlue |
| Anyone know any good ditches? on 10:23 - Oct 28 by Guthrum |
OTOH, it clears the air for an election about social issues and austerity, on which Labour (and Corbyn) are considerably stronger than Johnson's Conservatives. Plus the latter have lost their trump card of "getting Brexit done", while having upset the DUP and not being hard enough for the Faragists. |
You honestly think that's the case? It would be nice if people focused on those things but I don't think people are going to forget Brexit just like that and switch to social issues. People hold grudges, especially those millions who have been out on the streets trying to stop Brexit.
You could also say that rather than losing their trump card, Boris can point to the fact that he got Brexit done as promised.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Anyone know any good ditches? on 10:29 - Oct 28 with 3522 views | artsbossbeard |
| Anyone know any good ditches? on 10:13 - Oct 28 by ITFC_Forever |
Boris won't win the election..... the Conservatives will lose votes from remainers to the Lib Dems, and from the leavers to Farage.
Labour are incapable of challenging and their sit back and wait approach has rendered them impotent, so they too will lose votes to the Lib Dems.
It will be a hung parliament and more deadlock. |
My social media wading this weekend has shown me that the Leave EU lot are going to publish their guide to tactical voting this week.
The backing message in the post was that you don't vote Brexit to spoil the Tory vote in certain seats, do vote Brexit if you live in certain northern outposts as historically, the nasty party won't get seats anywhere with an old mining community.
Interesting times ahead |  |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| Anyone know any good ditches? on 10:35 - Oct 28 with 3503 views | itfcjoe |
| Anyone know any good ditches? on 10:27 - Oct 28 by StokieBlue |
I think that's reading the article how you want to read it.
"What is the worst that can happen if there is an election? We end up with a Tory majority and Boris gets his deal through - that is where we are heading anyway in reality"
No. The worst that can happen is he gets a majority and he gets 5 years of doing whatever he wants. Dubious trade deals with the US for instance.
SB |
As soon as Brexit gets through, which it will assessited by labour leaders, he will call an election based on him 'having got Brexit done' and get the majority.
At the moment there is more to fight for - he has alienated the independent Tories, the DUP, the Faragists and he hasn't got it done by October 31st when he would rather 'die in a ditch; than not do it.
He is as weak as he is going to be at the moment, it still may not work - but it's the only hope for a softer Brexit that there is, or at best no Brexit. | |
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| Anyone know any good ditches? on 10:43 - Oct 28 with 3463 views | patrickswell |
| Anyone know any good ditches? on 09:59 - Oct 28 by StokieBlue |
So you think it gets passed with Labour votes and then there is a GE?
How does that play out for Labour - they have essentially passed the deal and facilitated Brexit so going to be hard to appeal to remainers especially given they said they would get their own deal and them campaign based on that.
All a bit of a mess - hard to see Boris not doing well out of most of the scenarios.
SB |
Before the deal gets passed though, there is a lot of scope for amendments being attached to it as well. |  | | |
| Anyone know any good ditches? on 10:49 - Oct 28 with 3439 views | itfcjoe |
| Anyone know any good ditches? on 10:43 - Oct 28 by patrickswell |
Before the deal gets passed though, there is a lot of scope for amendments being attached to it as well. |
These little amendments will mean buggar all, and likely be ignored anyway, but be enough to get enough labour Leavers on board to get this deal passed - that is the worst thing that can happen | |
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| Anyone know any good ditches? on 10:57 - Oct 28 with 3417 views | Herbivore |
| Anyone know any good ditches? on 10:13 - Oct 28 by ITFC_Forever |
Boris won't win the election..... the Conservatives will lose votes from remainers to the Lib Dems, and from the leavers to Farage.
Labour are incapable of challenging and their sit back and wait approach has rendered them impotent, so they too will lose votes to the Lib Dems.
It will be a hung parliament and more deadlock. |
He will definitely win the election. Whether he wins a majority or not is far less certain but there is no way the Tories won't be the biggest party after the upcoming GE. The Lib Dem vote is too spread out for them to win all that many seats but they will harm the Tories in some areas, probably they'll harm Labour more and that could easily pave the way for a few Tory gains.
The Brexit Party are now an irrelevance. They are down at 10% and falling in the polls as most Brexiteers are now getting behind Boris. The only role they can play is to try to disrupt the Labour vote in areas where the Tories otherwise have no chance of doing anything and I suspect Farage will settle for that. He's an ERG member in all but name.
I'm afraid it's likely we are set for 5 years of Johnson. | |
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| Anyone know any good ditches? on 11:44 - Oct 28 with 3324 views | Guthrum |
| Anyone know any good ditches? on 10:29 - Oct 28 by StokieBlue |
You honestly think that's the case? It would be nice if people focused on those things but I don't think people are going to forget Brexit just like that and switch to social issues. People hold grudges, especially those millions who have been out on the streets trying to stop Brexit.
You could also say that rather than losing their trump card, Boris can point to the fact that he got Brexit done as promised.
SB |
With the negotiating a trade deal aspect (which in incoming government would be in charge of), Labour can emphasise protection of workers' rights, preventing lowered standards/regulations and closeness to the EU.
There are (so we are told) an awful lot of formerly Labour-voting Leavers, anyway. How many of the ultra-Remainers (those who would not be relieved simply to escape No Deal) are Labour voters, rather than LibDem?
Labour could claim some of the credit for getting Johnson's deal through.
That's not to say I think it would be enough to hand Labour outright victory (there are other factors - most notably Scotland - which are against that), but I'd expect them to do better in a post-deal election than one before, where outright remain is still an option and a big lever. | |
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| Anyone know any good ditches? on 12:28 - Oct 28 with 3276 views | flimflam |
| Anyone know any good ditches? on 10:35 - Oct 28 by itfcjoe |
As soon as Brexit gets through, which it will assessited by labour leaders, he will call an election based on him 'having got Brexit done' and get the majority.
At the moment there is more to fight for - he has alienated the independent Tories, the DUP, the Faragists and he hasn't got it done by October 31st when he would rather 'die in a ditch; than not do it.
He is as weak as he is going to be at the moment, it still may not work - but it's the only hope for a softer Brexit that there is, or at best no Brexit. |
I would say quite the opposite and is stronger now than at any time previously and as much as you may loathe him brexit supporters believe he is trying to get Brexit done and being blocked at every turn.
If he is sensible he will work with the BP and will gain a big majority and then the scary stuff will start and not a lot the opposition will be able to do as he will have the numbers. |  |
| All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing. |
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| Anyone know any good ditches? on 12:49 - Oct 28 with 3234 views | BullardsMagicMullet |
| Anyone know any good ditches? on 09:39 - Oct 28 by Herbivore |
So it'll be a GE, Boris wins the election and we end up with a horrible right wing Tory government that ends up driving through either a no deal in a year's time or that agrees some sort of FTA that gives us wiggle room to become a horribly deregulated satellite state of the US. Good times. |
RIP TWTD
Gone to the dogs. |  |
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| Anyone know any good ditches? on 12:59 - Oct 28 with 3203 views | Herbivore |
| Anyone know any good ditches? on 12:28 - Oct 28 by flimflam |
I would say quite the opposite and is stronger now than at any time previously and as much as you may loathe him brexit supporters believe he is trying to get Brexit done and being blocked at every turn.
If he is sensible he will work with the BP and will gain a big majority and then the scary stuff will start and not a lot the opposition will be able to do as he will have the numbers. |
It is remarkable that someone who has been such an abject failure and who has lied and gone back on his word multiple times is likely to win a majority. This is a man who lied to the Queen and unlawfully prorogued parliament (having said he wouldn't) and who may well have committed misconduct in a public office with all Tthe Jennifer Accuri stuff. He really is our own Trump in that he can do and say pretty much anything whilst being objectively a total failure and yet still command the support of a decent chunk of the country. It's utterly insane. | |
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