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Grenfell report 08:17 - Oct 29 with 1648 viewsuefacup81

Absolute whitewash in my opinion.

The LFB and the residents were on a hiding to nothing the moment the cladding was installed, the compartmentation was compromised, and for as long as the owner ignored residents' concerns over fire safety.

But hey, they're a nice easy target.

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Grenfell report on 08:31 - Oct 29 with 1613 viewsSteve_M

That the failure to both install suitable cladding and to enforce that installation was the major cause of the catastrophic loss of life doesn't in itself mean that the LFB doesn't have lessons it can learn from what happened.

The detail of the report will probably be more useful than the excited headlines.

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Grenfell report on 08:33 - Oct 29 with 1605 viewsuefacup81

Grenfell report on 08:31 - Oct 29 by Steve_M

That the failure to both install suitable cladding and to enforce that installation was the major cause of the catastrophic loss of life doesn't in itself mean that the LFB doesn't have lessons it can learn from what happened.

The detail of the report will probably be more useful than the excited headlines.


Agreed, but the tone of the report sounds like they're being hauled across the coals.

They're being criticised for essentially contributing to the death toll, but at the end of the day nobody would have died had the building not been turned into a death-trap.

As far as I recall, a lot of LFB's advice was based on how the building was expected to react, which I think was somewhat reasonable.

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Grenfell report on 08:55 - Oct 29 with 1563 viewsfactual_blue

Grenfell report on 08:31 - Oct 29 by Steve_M

That the failure to both install suitable cladding and to enforce that installation was the major cause of the catastrophic loss of life doesn't in itself mean that the LFB doesn't have lessons it can learn from what happened.

The detail of the report will probably be more useful than the excited headlines.


According to the BBC website, the second phase of the report will focus on the cladding and similar issues.

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Grenfell report on 09:01 - Oct 29 with 1548 viewsonlymehere

Anyone who stayed in their rooms in building that was engulfed by smoke or fire must want their head tested it was obviously the wrong instructions as the fire got hold.
The female fire chief appeared to be out of depth didn’t the fire brigade have to wait an hour and a half for the telescopic crane to arrive?
Loads of faults I just hoped the LFB and others have learnt something after this tragedy.
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Grenfell report on 09:12 - Oct 29 with 1520 viewsBloomBlue

I agree but giving bad advice which resulted in deaths also deserves to be highlighted and the advice of LFB did result in deaths, according to the report.

The important thing is has the LFB addressed the things they did wrong that night and changed should another fire in a high rise block of flats occur in the future from what little has been on the BBC it indicates the report has questioned they have changed. But until the full report is published we wont know.
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Grenfell report on 09:15 - Oct 29 with 1510 viewshampstead_blue

The LFB boss did rather make a mistake by stating the even with hindsight she feels they did the right thing.

That's bold considering there would be a detailed report and no-one ever emerges clean from those (unless your name is Tony Blair), especially after the tragedy.

Did the LFB know the cladding was unfit for purpouse?

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Grenfell report on 10:04 - Oct 29 with 1448 viewsMetal_Hacker

The whole report concentrates on the flammable nature of the cladding and the issues with the “stay put” instruction. Surely more emphasis needs to also be targeted towards the cause. Nowhere has anyone in the media or the report suggests that AFDD’s are now recommended to be used in electrical circuitry. AFDD’s (arc fault detection devices ) isolate individual circuits when an electrical arc is created. I work for Siemens and they’ve had this technology for over 12 years. Several Scandinavian countries and even America has the use of AFDD’s as a requirement due to the structure of the majority of build types in those countries. Other countries are also following suit in terms of regulatory requirements and perhaps we’ll follow suit once the industry catches up with the company I’m employed by

Arc faults can be caused by a number of effects. Rotten chewing the insulation , degradation of cables (frost , cold , age ) etc etc

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Grenfell report on 10:22 - Oct 29 with 1418 viewslowhouseblue

it's the first part of a two part report. the issues it identifies seem valid in their own right - but there is nothing to deny that the tragedy would never have occurred in this way if the building had been designed to contain and avoid the spread of any fire. the fact that this first part doesn't address the issues to be considered in the second part doesn't affect the legitimacy of what the first part finds.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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Grenfell report on 10:26 - Oct 29 with 1408 viewsfooters

And two years on more than 220 high-rise buildings still have unsafe, Grenfell-style cladding.

" I was informed that a number of these tests have come back as combustible... as I speak they are taking all possible steps to ensure buildings are safe and to inform affected residents.

Landlords have a legal obligation to provide safe buildings and where they cannot do that we expect alternative accommodation to be provided."

- Theresa May, 2017.

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Grenfell report on 10:43 - Oct 29 with 1378 viewsRyorry

Grenfell report on 09:01 - Oct 29 by onlymehere

Anyone who stayed in their rooms in building that was engulfed by smoke or fire must want their head tested it was obviously the wrong instructions as the fire got hold.
The female fire chief appeared to be out of depth didn’t the fire brigade have to wait an hour and a half for the telescopic crane to arrive?
Loads of faults I just hoped the LFB and others have learnt something after this tragedy.


Was the fire chief's gender significant? If not, why mention it? If it had been a male fire chief attending, would you have written "the male fire chief appeared to be out of depth .."

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Grenfell report on 11:17 - Oct 29 with 1337 viewsBasuco

Grenfell report on 09:01 - Oct 29 by onlymehere

Anyone who stayed in their rooms in building that was engulfed by smoke or fire must want their head tested it was obviously the wrong instructions as the fire got hold.
The female fire chief appeared to be out of depth didn’t the fire brigade have to wait an hour and a half for the telescopic crane to arrive?
Loads of faults I just hoped the LFB and others have learnt something after this tragedy.


Bit harsh on the fire chief as they would not have been expected to know that the building had highly combustible cladding fixed to it. Tower blocks in the UK are designed to contain fire in one flat or floor at worst.
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Grenfell report on 11:29 - Oct 29 with 1307 viewsBasuco

Grenfell report on 09:12 - Oct 29 by BloomBlue

I agree but giving bad advice which resulted in deaths also deserves to be highlighted and the advice of LFB did result in deaths, according to the report.

The important thing is has the LFB addressed the things they did wrong that night and changed should another fire in a high rise block of flats occur in the future from what little has been on the BBC it indicates the report has questioned they have changed. But until the full report is published we wont know.


The highly combustible cladding contributed far more to the disaster than the LFB IMO, maybe fire brigades and tenants in the UK should be informed that the entire block will ignite very quickly should a small fire break out in any part of the building. As stated elsewhere on this thread, how are there still so many tower blocks in the UK still a Grenfell type disaster waiting to happen!
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Grenfell report on 12:43 - Oct 29 with 1212 viewshampstead_blue

Grenfell report on 10:43 - Oct 29 by Ryorry

Was the fire chief's gender significant? If not, why mention it? If it had been a male fire chief attending, would you have written "the male fire chief appeared to be out of depth .."


It's poor to refer to gender like that.
The fact that the LFB has a female in charge is credit to them.

I think journalists need to be gender neutral

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Grenfell report on 18:22 - Oct 29 with 1124 viewsnoggin

Grenfell report on 09:12 - Oct 29 by BloomBlue

I agree but giving bad advice which resulted in deaths also deserves to be highlighted and the advice of LFB did result in deaths, according to the report.

The important thing is has the LFB addressed the things they did wrong that night and changed should another fire in a high rise block of flats occur in the future from what little has been on the BBC it indicates the report has questioned they have changed. But until the full report is published we wont know.


Although the advice they gave was the correct advice for the design of the building.

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Grenfell report on 21:09 - Oct 29 with 1045 viewsipswichtillidie

What’s been so disappointing for me personally is that part of the report has been leaked today! I’m sure once people have read the second part of the report things will become very clear where liability falls. That said reading the thread to date TWTD’ers seem on the money.

Gav NS5

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Grenfell report on 22:24 - Oct 29 with 993 viewsonlymehere

Grenfell report on 10:43 - Oct 29 by Ryorry

Was the fire chief's gender significant? If not, why mention it? If it had been a male fire chief attending, would you have written "the male fire chief appeared to be out of depth .."


Not really just saying what is reported.
Why does that offend you it’s a fact and the truth.
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Grenfell report on 06:51 - Oct 30 with 919 viewsgordon

Grenfell report on 22:24 - Oct 29 by onlymehere

Not really just saying what is reported.
Why does that offend you it’s a fact and the truth.


It's offensive because it was straightforwardly sexist.
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Grenfell report on 08:09 - Oct 30 with 870 viewsuefacup81

Grenfell report on 21:09 - Oct 29 by ipswichtillidie

What’s been so disappointing for me personally is that part of the report has been leaked today! I’m sure once people have read the second part of the report things will become very clear where liability falls. That said reading the thread to date TWTD’ers seem on the money.


Indeed.

Given the part of the report that's been leaked, it suggests to me that the parts we're not privy to year give someone other than LFB quite a shoeing.

It would appear that the strategy behind the leak was to make it appear that the report is primarily damming of the LFB, and thus deflecting attention away from the other criticised parties.

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Grenfell report on 08:12 - Oct 30 with 865 viewsfooters

Grenfell report on 22:24 - Oct 29 by onlymehere

Not really just saying what is reported.
Why does that offend you it’s a fact and the truth.


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Grenfell report on 19:01 - Oct 30 with 757 viewsBloomBlue

Grenfell report on 18:22 - Oct 29 by noggin

Although the advice they gave was the correct advice for the design of the building.


But that was LFB own advice and the report is criticising the fact they stuck to that and didn't react to what was happening on the night.
Dany Cotton not helping herself by saying she wouldn't do anything different if she could rerun it. I have to agree with survivors on the local London news tonight she should be sacked or resign now.
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Grenfell report on 19:59 - Oct 30 with 711 viewsOxford_Blue

How can you come to such a conclusion, without having read the evidence or considered the details ?
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Grenfell report on 20:01 - Oct 30 with 709 viewsOxford_Blue

Grenfell report on 08:33 - Oct 29 by uefacup81

Agreed, but the tone of the report sounds like they're being hauled across the coals.

They're being criticised for essentially contributing to the death toll, but at the end of the day nobody would have died had the building not been turned into a death-trap.

As far as I recall, a lot of LFB's advice was based on how the building was expected to react, which I think was somewhat reasonable.


If you apply that logic then no one would have died if the building hadn’t been built. Are the builders therefore liable? The bankers who paid for it?

It’s reasonably foreseeable that a fire might break out occasionally in such a building. Therefore it’s reasonably foreseeable that the fire brigade will be called to do their job. They didn’t do it that well according to the investigation that has taken over a year.
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Grenfell report on 20:38 - Oct 30 with 688 viewsipswichtillidie

Grenfell report on 20:01 - Oct 30 by Oxford_Blue

If you apply that logic then no one would have died if the building hadn’t been built. Are the builders therefore liable? The bankers who paid for it?

It’s reasonably foreseeable that a fire might break out occasionally in such a building. Therefore it’s reasonably foreseeable that the fire brigade will be called to do their job. They didn’t do it that well according to the investigation that has taken over a year.


With whom do you refer didn’t do their job? Would you have gone into that building not knowing if you would ever come out? Would you have as the officer in charge gone against a procedure that was put in place to save lives, knowing that if you abandoned what was known could have caused even more casualties? It’s very easy to be critical in hindsight. You could evaluate every thing any one every did and make improvements. Without doubt there is lessons to learn for all concerned. Unless you’ve ever actually been placed in a life or death dynamic situation yourself I don’t actually think you have the right to criticise those that do.

Gav NS5

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