Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread
Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster 07:24 - Nov 3 with 17835 viewsmonytowbray

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/nov/02/super-rich-leave-uk-labour-election

It’s disgusting and I hope people wake up to the fact these people have been pulling the strings of the government and press all along.

TWTD never forgets…
Poll: How close will a TWTD election poll be next to June results?

2
Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:32 - Nov 3 with 4938 viewsjjblue84

The Labour Party is capitalist now??
-3
Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:38 - Nov 3 with 4921 viewsmonytowbray

Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:32 - Nov 3 by jjblue84

The Labour Party is capitalist now??


When you read something like this and think Labour is the problem, you become a puppet to people who’d happily watch you die to make an extra 4 figures that day.

If that’s the hill you want to die on then so be it. I’d sooner live in a fairer society.

TWTD never forgets…
Poll: How close will a TWTD election poll be next to June results?

5
Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:43 - Nov 3 with 4902 viewsStokieBlue

Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:38 - Nov 3 by monytowbray

When you read something like this and think Labour is the problem, you become a puppet to people who’d happily watch you die to make an extra 4 figures that day.

If that’s the hill you want to die on then so be it. I’d sooner live in a fairer society.


Is it the tax avoidance you have an issue with? Or is it zero hours contacts? Or people being wealthy?

Plenty of very valid points to discuss in that article but I don't see how it links to your paragraph under it.

SB

Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula

2
Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:47 - Nov 3 with 4894 viewsjjblue84

Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:38 - Nov 3 by monytowbray

When you read something like this and think Labour is the problem, you become a puppet to people who’d happily watch you die to make an extra 4 figures that day.

If that’s the hill you want to die on then so be it. I’d sooner live in a fairer society.


Some people still cling onto the murderous ideas of the Soviet Union, and abhor the fact that people can achieve freedom by working hard!
-9
Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:49 - Nov 3 with 4887 viewsJon_456

Isn’t that evidence that labour would be disastrous for the country?

I understand Labours ideas are probably good in principle but they won’t work. As the article states businesses and millionaires/billionaires will simply leave the country, leaving the government with less money to tax and an increase in unemployment as businesses will look to make back their losses for those that stay.

40% of something is a lot better than 100% of nothing.
0
Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:50 - Nov 3 with 4880 viewsmonytowbray

Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:43 - Nov 3 by StokieBlue

Is it the tax avoidance you have an issue with? Or is it zero hours contacts? Or people being wealthy?

Plenty of very valid points to discuss in that article but I don't see how it links to your paragraph under it.

SB


A combination of all the above really. Anyone earning that much should be paying taxes and paying fair wages.

I just can’t relate to such wealth and materialistic obsession at the misery of so many. And I don’t understand how anyone who isn’t super rich can defend it or justify it at their own expense.

TWTD never forgets…
Poll: How close will a TWTD election poll be next to June results?

2
Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:53 - Nov 3 with 4876 viewsmonytowbray

Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:49 - Nov 3 by Jon_456

Isn’t that evidence that labour would be disastrous for the country?

I understand Labours ideas are probably good in principle but they won’t work. As the article states businesses and millionaires/billionaires will simply leave the country, leaving the government with less money to tax and an increase in unemployment as businesses will look to make back their losses for those that stay.

40% of something is a lot better than 100% of nothing.


They’d soon pay it if their entire work force went on strike for it, or the entire country for that matter. The defeatist attitude of being powerless supports their aims.

TWTD never forgets…
Poll: How close will a TWTD election poll be next to June results?

2
Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:54 - Nov 3 with 4871 viewsmonytowbray

Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:47 - Nov 3 by jjblue84

Some people still cling onto the murderous ideas of the Soviet Union, and abhor the fact that people can achieve freedom by working hard!


Comparing socialism to the SU shows you have very little if any idea what you are talking about.

TWTD never forgets…
Poll: How close will a TWTD election poll be next to June results?

3
Login to get fewer ads

Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:55 - Nov 3 with 4853 viewsmrshallisfit

Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:47 - Nov 3 by jjblue84

Some people still cling onto the murderous ideas of the Soviet Union, and abhor the fact that people can achieve freedom by working hard!


It's not the issue of people working hard or gaining wealth. That includes millions of people in society. It's more the issue of tax avoidance and how some very wealthy companies and individuals operate. Are you ok the super rich getting private polling information prior to the Brexit vote and gambling money against the pound? Are you ok with zero-hour contracts. Are you ok with widespread tax avoidance whilst we have a social care system that cant afford to properly look after our elderly?
3
Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:57 - Nov 3 with 4847 viewsmrshallisfit

Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:49 - Nov 3 by Jon_456

Isn’t that evidence that labour would be disastrous for the country?

I understand Labours ideas are probably good in principle but they won’t work. As the article states businesses and millionaires/billionaires will simply leave the country, leaving the government with less money to tax and an increase in unemployment as businesses will look to make back their losses for those that stay.

40% of something is a lot better than 100% of nothing.


Have you seen their proposed tax plans? Where is the 100% tax bracket. Seem to have missed that. Their plans are actually surprisingly modest.
0
Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:59 - Nov 3 with 4850 viewssparks

Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:55 - Nov 3 by mrshallisfit

It's not the issue of people working hard or gaining wealth. That includes millions of people in society. It's more the issue of tax avoidance and how some very wealthy companies and individuals operate. Are you ok the super rich getting private polling information prior to the Brexit vote and gambling money against the pound? Are you ok with zero-hour contracts. Are you ok with widespread tax avoidance whilst we have a social care system that cant afford to properly look after our elderly?


I am fine with zero hour contracts- many people WANT THEM.

Tax avoidance is logical and something most people do to some extent.

People keep conflating issues to support their agendas. Given the sewage like spewing of misinformation from all sides these days, that really isnt helpful.
The most objectionable of labour's suggestions to date (which reveals the true intentions perhaps) is the position on inheritance tax and a £125k lifetime gift allowance. That is not an attack on the super rich- it will hit everyone who owns a home and wants to pass something onto their kids.

The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it. (Sir Terry Pratchett)
Poll: Is Fred drunk this morning?

0
Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:00 - Nov 3 with 4847 viewsjjblue84

Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:55 - Nov 3 by mrshallisfit

It's not the issue of people working hard or gaining wealth. That includes millions of people in society. It's more the issue of tax avoidance and how some very wealthy companies and individuals operate. Are you ok the super rich getting private polling information prior to the Brexit vote and gambling money against the pound? Are you ok with zero-hour contracts. Are you ok with widespread tax avoidance whilst we have a social care system that cant afford to properly look after our elderly?


I’m not sure how turning the country into Venezuela is going to help solve any of these issues...
-6
Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:02 - Nov 3 with 4844 viewsJon_456

Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:57 - Nov 3 by mrshallisfit

Have you seen their proposed tax plans? Where is the 100% tax bracket. Seem to have missed that. Their plans are actually surprisingly modest.


They haven’t and I agree they’re not quite as bad as I thought they would, but my point was that labour could tax 50%, 60% or 100%, it doesn’t matter if those businesses and the rich leave the country.
0
Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:07 - Nov 3 with 4828 viewsStokieBlue

Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:50 - Nov 3 by monytowbray

A combination of all the above really. Anyone earning that much should be paying taxes and paying fair wages.

I just can’t relate to such wealth and materialistic obsession at the misery of so many. And I don’t understand how anyone who isn’t super rich can defend it or justify it at their own expense.


But some of the people raising concerns on the article are paying taxes, one person paid 40m tax last year it says. I do agree everyone should be paying their share of tax and something needs to be done about tax evasion but it's not always black and white:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/05/labour-avoided-paying-tax-on-43-milli

Now I'm sure there is reason for that, it's just not in the article.

Sparks also raises a good point on inheritance tax. The vast majority at that level will have paid tax already on that income and will be taxed again when passing it on to kids at a higher level.

I still don't see how the article links up with your original post about controlling the media and the government though.

SB
[Post edited 3 Nov 2019 8:07]

Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula

0
Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:07 - Nov 3 with 4827 viewsmonytowbray

Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:02 - Nov 3 by Jon_456

They haven’t and I agree they’re not quite as bad as I thought they would, but my point was that labour could tax 50%, 60% or 100%, it doesn’t matter if those businesses and the rich leave the country.


They won’t leave, they want our money more than we need their jobs.

TWTD never forgets…
Poll: How close will a TWTD election poll be next to June results?

0
Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:09 - Nov 3 with 4819 viewsStokieBlue

Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:00 - Nov 3 by jjblue84

I’m not sure how turning the country into Venezuela is going to help solve any of these issues...


See this really isn't helpful either.

There should be proper debates on policies and ideas, not nonsense soundbites based on political allegiance.

You need to try harder.

SB

Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula

4
Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:13 - Nov 3 with 4802 viewsmonytowbray

Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:59 - Nov 3 by sparks

I am fine with zero hour contracts- many people WANT THEM.

Tax avoidance is logical and something most people do to some extent.

People keep conflating issues to support their agendas. Given the sewage like spewing of misinformation from all sides these days, that really isnt helpful.
The most objectionable of labour's suggestions to date (which reveals the true intentions perhaps) is the position on inheritance tax and a £125k lifetime gift allowance. That is not an attack on the super rich- it will hit everyone who owns a home and wants to pass something onto their kids.


0HC are fine if people choose them over a promised wage but often that’s not the case. I like beans on toast but I wouldn’t force people who don’t to eat it.

The inheritance stuff I can see your point. Sadly if the top of the chain paid their fair share we wouldn’t need to scrape cash into the national pot from modestly high earners so much.

TWTD never forgets…
Poll: How close will a TWTD election poll be next to June results?

1
Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:15 - Nov 3 with 4791 viewssparks

Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:13 - Nov 3 by monytowbray

0HC are fine if people choose them over a promised wage but often that’s not the case. I like beans on toast but I wouldn’t force people who don’t to eat it.

The inheritance stuff I can see your point. Sadly if the top of the chain paid their fair share we wouldn’t need to scrape cash into the national pot from modestly high earners so much.


What is a fair share? It comes back to this old point that taxing the very top end heavily does not net nearly as much tax revenue as increasing taxes on the far larger middle.

What do you do about zero hours contracts without limiting people's freedom and flexibility? The labour response is presumably to ban them completely on ideological grounds. Which is the problem.
[Post edited 3 Nov 2019 8:17]

The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it. (Sir Terry Pratchett)
Poll: Is Fred drunk this morning?

0
Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:19 - Nov 3 with 4779 viewstractorboy1978

Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:59 - Nov 3 by sparks

I am fine with zero hour contracts- many people WANT THEM.

Tax avoidance is logical and something most people do to some extent.

People keep conflating issues to support their agendas. Given the sewage like spewing of misinformation from all sides these days, that really isnt helpful.
The most objectionable of labour's suggestions to date (which reveals the true intentions perhaps) is the position on inheritance tax and a £125k lifetime gift allowance. That is not an attack on the super rich- it will hit everyone who owns a home and wants to pass something onto their kids.


The issue in this country IMO is that we seem to set those earning under the national average salary off against those who earn over it whilst the genuinely "super rich" are laughing in the background.

We see it all the time when people that are earning a few thousand more than the higher rate tax band get excited about the bands moving slightly in their favour. Understandable as ultimately the majority of people vote/are influenced by polices that work in their interest but in the grand scheme of things, most people should be on the same side.
1
Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:19 - Nov 3 with 4779 viewsmonytowbray

Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:15 - Nov 3 by sparks

What is a fair share? It comes back to this old point that taxing the very top end heavily does not net nearly as much tax revenue as increasing taxes on the far larger middle.

What do you do about zero hours contracts without limiting people's freedom and flexibility? The labour response is presumably to ban them completely on ideological grounds. Which is the problem.
[Post edited 3 Nov 2019 8:17]


When billions stop being avoided in tax every year by the super rich I’m sure we can have that discussion. Can’t play a game of football and have a real chat about tactics when half your squad is missing.

TWTD never forgets…
Poll: How close will a TWTD election poll be next to June results?

0
Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:22 - Nov 3 with 4769 viewsmonytowbray

Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:19 - Nov 3 by tractorboy1978

The issue in this country IMO is that we seem to set those earning under the national average salary off against those who earn over it whilst the genuinely "super rich" are laughing in the background.

We see it all the time when people that are earning a few thousand more than the higher rate tax band get excited about the bands moving slightly in their favour. Understandable as ultimately the majority of people vote/are influenced by polices that work in their interest but in the grand scheme of things, most people should be on the same side.


It’s that proverb about the banker, the worker and the foreigner sat around a table of 10 biscuits again. The banker takes 9 of the biscuits for himself and says to the worker “watch out mate, that foreigner is trying to steal your biscuit.”

TWTD never forgets…
Poll: How close will a TWTD election poll be next to June results?

1
Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:25 - Nov 3 with 4767 viewsNewcyBlue

What’s your plan then?

In the last thread you made about this subject you said how you wanted to get off the system like your hippy friends or something. I can’t remember the exact words. You said they seemed happier.

You said all a payrise had done for you was enable you to order more takeaways and buy more stuff.

Then you said that you thought about going freelance so you could be paid what you’re worth (which you believe is more money).

Frankly, it doesn’t seem like you know what you want. If you don’t have enough time working a 40 hour week then I would say you’re not going to enjoy the rest of your working life. I have found a job where I work up to 98 hours a week, but when I am home, there is no work. I am compensated for my time that way.

If you want to be a better, more useful member of society perhaps look into paramedics, or nursing, or something like that. You seem unhappy doing what you do.

Nothing annoys me more than people whining about their situation, especially when they haven’t even got a plan for dealing with it. You are what you repeatedly do.

Poll: Who has been the best Bond?

5
Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:25 - Nov 3 with 4763 viewsBloomBlue

The trouble is to start a company from nothing takes hard work and some luck but it can make you rich. But most companies in this country are started by individuals with an idea, they then have to work their ar$e off to keep it growing and employ people. Anyone who thinks building a company from 1 person to employing 30 plus people is easy is living in a dream world.

What Labour needs to be careful about is targeting those people, not every company is an Amazon. Those people who start / build companies deserve the financial rewards. Once you constantly increase the taxes on them and basically say thanks for all your hard work starting this company now we'll pinch all your money, you'll have them moving out of the country and stop other people even starting new companies.

If building a business was so easy we would all start one. It's businesses which keep a Country moving, they employ people, pay taxes which pays for things like the NHS, Gov have to encourage business not stifle it with huge taxes.

Blair was the worst PM ever but at least he understood a Gov has to build the base to encourage not discourage people to start new businesses
0
Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:29 - Nov 3 with 4755 viewsmonytowbray

Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:25 - Nov 3 by NewcyBlue

What’s your plan then?

In the last thread you made about this subject you said how you wanted to get off the system like your hippy friends or something. I can’t remember the exact words. You said they seemed happier.

You said all a payrise had done for you was enable you to order more takeaways and buy more stuff.

Then you said that you thought about going freelance so you could be paid what you’re worth (which you believe is more money).

Frankly, it doesn’t seem like you know what you want. If you don’t have enough time working a 40 hour week then I would say you’re not going to enjoy the rest of your working life. I have found a job where I work up to 98 hours a week, but when I am home, there is no work. I am compensated for my time that way.

If you want to be a better, more useful member of society perhaps look into paramedics, or nursing, or something like that. You seem unhappy doing what you do.

Nothing annoys me more than people whining about their situation, especially when they haven’t even got a plan for dealing with it. You are what you repeatedly do.


What does my personal life have to do with the country? In this regard I plan to vote.

Odd take but okaaaay.

TWTD never forgets…
Poll: How close will a TWTD election poll be next to June results?

0
Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:30 - Nov 3 with 4748 viewssparks

Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:19 - Nov 3 by monytowbray

When billions stop being avoided in tax every year by the super rich I’m sure we can have that discussion. Can’t play a game of football and have a real chat about tactics when half your squad is missing.


That's just evasion of the issues.

The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it. (Sir Terry Pratchett)
Poll: Is Fred drunk this morning?

-1
About Us Contact Us Terms & Conditions Privacy Cookies Advertising
© TWTD 1995-2024