| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? 13:48 - Nov 12 with 21366 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
The Tories campaign basically amounts to being ‘Not Corbyn’, getting Brexit done plus lots of promises which almost certainly haven’t been costed and won’t be delivered
The Labour campaign amounts to being ‘Not the Tories’, maybe getting Brexit done plus lots of promises which almost certainly haven’t been costed and won’t be delivered
The Lib Dem’s campaign amounts to being ‘Not the Tories or Labour’, abandoning Brexit...and that’s about it?
Then all the small parties (plus SNP but no one other than Darth cares about Scotland)
I know it’s early days yet but that’s pretty much it isn’t it? |  |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:17 - Nov 13 with 2375 views | Darth_Koont |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:12 - Nov 13 by J2BLUE |
Can I have an example? I'm not denying you will come up with any because you probably will but I feel there should be context applied. I feel like i'm quite fair and balanced which these days tends to upset a lot of people in our black and white world.
Also I feel it's perfectly acceptable to discuss the labour party when people are talking about the Tories. It drives me mad when people start on about 'whataboutery' etc when it's generally accepted that there are two options. |
That's the way you've come across about Brexit certainly in the beginning and always about the SNP and the underlying concerns in Scotland. Those are the political issues I have personal experience of dealing with you over. And I don't think "fair and balanced" comes into it so much as taking a position on superficial stuff and then changing when the facts come through.
FWIW I don't think it's dishonest and manipulative at all, like some on here. But not sure why you take a particular position on certain things you evidently don't care much or know much about. |  |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:22 - Nov 13 with 2345 views | GaryCooper |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 11:41 - Nov 13 by GlasgowBlue |
Bullying, shaming and emotional blackmail.
What a way to win hearts and minds. |
Labour will never be elected until it wins the votes of those the modern left despises, the Wetherspoons patrons, the Sun readers, they are just facts of life. |  | | |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:24 - Nov 13 with 2340 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:02 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
Woah! I know you didn't say that, it was the Trumpian false equivalence argument I was trying to get across.
Forgive me if I don't want to sleepwalk into the next phase of Tory-led clownf@ckery because you're saying that all politicians are a bit sh!t so there's no point.
And there's actually plenty of room to discuss the last 9+ years and the new direction Labour is talking about if you want to discuss it. Complaining about the political agenda that the media and too many politicians have set but then sticking to it yourself is all a little odd. |
You quite literally described it as ‘there are good people on both sides’ analysis
I also never said there’s no point - maybe if you stopped putting words into people’s mouths there would be more inclination to actually discuss those points?
Your last paragraph is also completely a*se about face, my lament of the options available is based on how I perceive it, pretending that actually they’re really good isn’t going to magically make things better | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:25 - Nov 13 with 2330 views | Darth_Koont |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:15 - Nov 13 by J2BLUE |
'There is no alternative to the Tory government other than voting Labour generally, LibDem in a minority of seats and SNP in the majority of Scotland.'
Can I ask who you will be voting for? The more votes Labour get and the more seats they win the more chance of a Labour led coalition (it won't be led by anyone else). So can I ask if you are voting Labour or are you sticking with the SNP? |
I can't vote for the SNP but Labour or LibDem where I do vote. Not sure there's a chance of either making a dent in the Tory lead so I'm definitely encouraging others to make sure their vote counts where it really does.
Personally a Labour/SNP coalition would be the best option and probably with LibDems needed to get it across the line.
On a side note, I think that a Labour-led government is also about the only way to avoid the break up of the union as it should in theory deliver most of the changes and social and economic priorities that are being called for. Labour and the SNP are very similarly aligned in policy. | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:28 - Nov 13 with 2316 views | J2BLUE |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:17 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
That's the way you've come across about Brexit certainly in the beginning and always about the SNP and the underlying concerns in Scotland. Those are the political issues I have personal experience of dealing with you over. And I don't think "fair and balanced" comes into it so much as taking a position on superficial stuff and then changing when the facts come through.
FWIW I don't think it's dishonest and manipulative at all, like some on here. But not sure why you take a particular position on certain things you evidently don't care much or know much about. |
That's just completely wrong. I have acknowledged Scotland's position and agreed that it is unfair that Scotland gets dragged along by England. I have also asked if it would be acceptable for the 50m people in England to get dictated to by the will of people living in Scotland? I don't think it would be. Sturgeon is always saying it's undemocratic for Scotland to have to do what England wants but has also said Scotland should have the power to veto Brexit and she asked David Cameron to effectively make the referendum meaningless by suggesting Brexit needed the consent of all four home nations. Apparently that would be fine but Scotland can't possibly be forced to go along with the UK majority.
I got Brexit wrong. People love to act like i'm constantly wrong on everything as a way to discredit me. All this 'one day you'll see the light and agree with me' stuff is just arrogance. I don't believe it's wrong to have major concerns about Corbyn. You've basically said my only two options are Tories or Labour and anything but a labour vote is a vote for the Tories. Think back to when Corbyn first became leader. I was one of his biggest cheerleaders on this site. I wanted to believe in him. |  |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:30 - Nov 13 with 2307 views | Darth_Koont |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:24 - Nov 13 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
You quite literally described it as ‘there are good people on both sides’ analysis
I also never said there’s no point - maybe if you stopped putting words into people’s mouths there would be more inclination to actually discuss those points?
Your last paragraph is also completely a*se about face, my lament of the options available is based on how I perceive it, pretending that actually they’re really good isn’t going to magically make things better |
I thought you'd have got the Trump reference.
But anyway ... Yeah, we clearly see things differently (especially where the other person is coming from) so not much point rehashing this. | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:32 - Nov 13 with 2296 views | chicoazul |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:25 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
I can't vote for the SNP but Labour or LibDem where I do vote. Not sure there's a chance of either making a dent in the Tory lead so I'm definitely encouraging others to make sure their vote counts where it really does.
Personally a Labour/SNP coalition would be the best option and probably with LibDems needed to get it across the line.
On a side note, I think that a Labour-led government is also about the only way to avoid the break up of the union as it should in theory deliver most of the changes and social and economic priorities that are being called for. Labour and the SNP are very similarly aligned in policy. |
The Maximum Leader himself has said today that there will be no alignment with any other party, and no Indy2 Ref for 5 years if he wins. |  |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:34 - Nov 13 with 2278 views | Darth_Koont |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:28 - Nov 13 by J2BLUE |
That's just completely wrong. I have acknowledged Scotland's position and agreed that it is unfair that Scotland gets dragged along by England. I have also asked if it would be acceptable for the 50m people in England to get dictated to by the will of people living in Scotland? I don't think it would be. Sturgeon is always saying it's undemocratic for Scotland to have to do what England wants but has also said Scotland should have the power to veto Brexit and she asked David Cameron to effectively make the referendum meaningless by suggesting Brexit needed the consent of all four home nations. Apparently that would be fine but Scotland can't possibly be forced to go along with the UK majority.
I got Brexit wrong. People love to act like i'm constantly wrong on everything as a way to discredit me. All this 'one day you'll see the light and agree with me' stuff is just arrogance. I don't believe it's wrong to have major concerns about Corbyn. You've basically said my only two options are Tories or Labour and anything but a labour vote is a vote for the Tories. Think back to when Corbyn first became leader. I was one of his biggest cheerleaders on this site. I wanted to believe in him. |
Even here, you seem to see the Scottish situation as about political power when it's about underlying social and economic reasons. You're not alone in that - it's also why people get Brexit wrong and Corbyn wrong because they're focusing on ideas of control and power rather than who and what politics is meant to serve.
Why don't you still believe in Corbyn? Have his policies changed? Is there more or less need for them? | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:36 - Nov 13 with 2261 views | Darth_Koont |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:32 - Nov 13 by chicoazul |
The Maximum Leader himself has said today that there will be no alignment with any other party, and no Indy2 Ref for 5 years if he wins. |
Thanks for that. | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:37 - Nov 13 with 2252 views | chicoazul |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:36 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
Thanks for that. |
Another reason to not vote Labour. Freedom for Scotland! | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:38 - Nov 13 with 2239 views | GlasgowBlue |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:25 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
I can't vote for the SNP but Labour or LibDem where I do vote. Not sure there's a chance of either making a dent in the Tory lead so I'm definitely encouraging others to make sure their vote counts where it really does.
Personally a Labour/SNP coalition would be the best option and probably with LibDems needed to get it across the line.
On a side note, I think that a Labour-led government is also about the only way to avoid the break up of the union as it should in theory deliver most of the changes and social and economic priorities that are being called for. Labour and the SNP are very similarly aligned in policy. |
Labour/SNP coalition. Yeah the UK really needs a Nationalist Socialist government. That always works out well. |  |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:39 - Nov 13 with 2237 views | J2BLUE |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:34 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
Even here, you seem to see the Scottish situation as about political power when it's about underlying social and economic reasons. You're not alone in that - it's also why people get Brexit wrong and Corbyn wrong because they're focusing on ideas of control and power rather than who and what politics is meant to serve.
Why don't you still believe in Corbyn? Have his policies changed? Is there more or less need for them? |
This is another example of only wanting to talk about the aspects you want to talk about. I'm well aware of the social and economic reasons (mainly from your posts) but the political power stuff does come into play.
Maybe Scotland would be better off as an independent country. I'm not one for holding you lot hostage. I'd happily let you decide your own future via another referendum. | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:40 - Nov 13 with 2227 views | Darth_Koont |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:37 - Nov 13 by chicoazul |
Another reason to not vote Labour. Freedom for Scotland! |
Ummm. No UK party is promising indyref2 ... yet. | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:44 - Nov 13 with 2197 views | chicoazul |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:40 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
Ummm. No UK party is promising indyref2 ... yet. |
Said it before, the SNP should stand candidates across Britain, there is loads of appetite for an independent Scotland right across the board especially in the Brexity areas. Let's make it happen Darth! | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:45 - Nov 13 with 2193 views | Pinewoodblue |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:15 - Nov 13 by lowhouseblue |
we'll see. but if we get 5 more years of the tories people like you will own that 100%. |
Another Conservative government will be proof, if proof is needed, that elections are lost rather than won.
Labour should they lose have one to blame apart from themselves. That includes a fair number of posters on here who seem determined to put off any floating voters. |  |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:51 - Nov 13 with 2170 views | chicoazul |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:45 - Nov 13 by Pinewoodblue |
Another Conservative government will be proof, if proof is needed, that elections are lost rather than won.
Labour should they lose have one to blame apart from themselves. That includes a fair number of posters on here who seem determined to put off any floating voters. |
I'm sorry but the idea that somehow because one or two militants throw their weight around and upset the floating voters you refer to, will be directly responsible for Labour losing the election is pretty funny. | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:53 - Nov 13 with 2158 views | Darth_Koont |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:44 - Nov 13 by chicoazul |
Said it before, the SNP should stand candidates across Britain, there is loads of appetite for an independent Scotland right across the board especially in the Brexity areas. Let's make it happen Darth! |
Capturing the Glib Numpty vote? Yeah it does seem quite large.  | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:53 - Nov 13 with 2155 views | Steve_M |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:51 - Nov 13 by chicoazul |
I'm sorry but the idea that somehow because one or two militants throw their weight around and upset the floating voters you refer to, will be directly responsible for Labour losing the election is pretty funny. |
But when those militants are Len McCluskey and Seumus Milne? |  |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:54 - Nov 13 with 2153 views | chicoazul |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:53 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
Capturing the Glib Numpty vote? Yeah it does seem quite large. |
Come on let's do it! Who knows, maybe Scotland will become such a rich successful country without Westminster interference that you may be minded to move back there! | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:55 - Nov 13 with 2148 views | chicoazul |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:53 - Nov 13 by Steve_M |
But when those militants are Len McCluskey and Seumus Milne? |
I meant on here. | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:57 - Nov 13 with 2133 views | Darth_Koont |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:39 - Nov 13 by J2BLUE |
This is another example of only wanting to talk about the aspects you want to talk about. I'm well aware of the social and economic reasons (mainly from your posts) but the political power stuff does come into play.
Maybe Scotland would be better off as an independent country. I'm not one for holding you lot hostage. I'd happily let you decide your own future via another referendum. |
But unless you see those aspects then to you all it is is Scotland throwing its weight around.
It's like telling under-represented minorities to stop trying to impose their needs and opinions on the larger majority. | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 14:00 - Nov 13 with 2116 views | Darth_Koont |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:54 - Nov 13 by chicoazul |
Come on let's do it! Who knows, maybe Scotland will become such a rich successful country without Westminster interference that you may be minded to move back there! |
Aaaah. That was quite cute. (ruffles chico's head) | |
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| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 14:05 - Nov 13 with 2085 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| This really is going to be the worst election in memory isn’t it? on 13:30 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
I thought you'd have got the Trump reference.
But anyway ... Yeah, we clearly see things differently (especially where the other person is coming from) so not much point rehashing this. |
I did get the Trump reference, that was why I was so keen to point out that was absolutely not something I’d implied
But yes, probably best to leave it there | |
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