| Equal pay arguement 08:57 - Nov 14 with 3931 views | hampstead_blue |
Interesting topic.
I don't want to see what everyone else is on at my work. It will cause rifts and back stabbing.
Whilst there is discretion and we trust our CEO, he is a proper leader btw, the apple cart is very stable.
If you open this can of worms you'll simply cause infighting.
Open book pay does work in certain places. Army, Government, Civil service, typically Public sector roles.
People have different motivations in that sector.
When you move into different sectors, including charities which is were I now work, it gets political and potentially naughty.
I do feel that pay should be gender neutral. I find paying men more on a gender basis abhorrent.
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| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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| Equal pay arguement on 13:26 - Nov 14 with 787 views | longtimefan |
| Equal pay arguement on 13:15 - Nov 14 by saxon |
"Then you are into realms of extremely vaired job descriptions to allow you to pay different wages to different people that do fundamentally the same job.
It's easier to do that (tweak a job description) than to evidence and justify the alternative."
Or you can just offer them different terms. So paid overtime/on-call, and more holiday for your male staff, but not the female ones in the same role. You justify by saying terms are an individual negotiation, not admitting that your starting offer will vary. (Also works on the probability that women are assumed less likely to drive a hard bargain and negotiate up).
Even the gender pay gap reporting can be manipulated - so you put your Female SysAdmin (a technical role) into "administration" for reporting (which makes your female average there go up, and gives you an excuse to only offer pay rises to the male staff to close that gap!) rather than IT technical where it shows up as a gender pay gap when you only have one female who is then evidently lower paid than the male staff. |
Isn't part of the problem though that publicly reported gender gap figures are done as a whole company, rather than comparing equivalent roles. I seem to remember EasyJet getting panned for there enormous gap which was mainly down to the majority of highly paid pilots being male! The representation of women in those higher paid roles is another question though. |  | | |
| Equal pay arguement on 13:36 - Nov 14 with 780 views | WD19 |
| Equal pay arguement on 13:26 - Nov 14 by longtimefan |
Isn't part of the problem though that publicly reported gender gap figures are done as a whole company, rather than comparing equivalent roles. I seem to remember EasyJet getting panned for there enormous gap which was mainly down to the majority of highly paid pilots being male! The representation of women in those higher paid roles is another question though. |
The whole construct is deliberately designed to exacerbate and sensationalise the gap in order to get attention/drive change.
I am not saying that is right or wrong, but it is very deliberate. |  | | |
| Equal pay arguement on 14:02 - Nov 14 with 760 views | saxon |
| Equal pay arguement on 13:36 - Nov 14 by WD19 |
The whole construct is deliberately designed to exacerbate and sensationalise the gap in order to get attention/drive change.
I am not saying that is right or wrong, but it is very deliberate. |
The wider corporate group my company is part of collects the figures not only for each company within the group but for various categories / levels within each company. Which has laudable aims, but is just leading to manipulation, certainly within my organisation, by redesignating roles to make the figures appear that the gap doesn't exist / exists to other way round. If that's happening across the group then the headline "our gender pay gap has decreased" announcement is meaningless. | | | |
| Equal pay arguement on 14:02 - Nov 14 with 761 views | SmithersJones |
| Equal pay arguement on 10:33 - Nov 14 by WD19 |
In nearly every instance I can think of, part time workers (which skew female) in my company get more (pro rata), not less than their colleagues. In effect, they are getting paid a premium because you get access to their skill, but don't have to pay them a full time wage.
But gender pay gap stuff doesn't do pro-rata does it (?) its only interested in absolute. |
Gender pay gap data is reported on an "average hourly rate" basis so pro rating is taken into account. | | | |
| Equal pay arguement on 14:05 - Nov 14 with 759 views | hampstead_blue |
| Equal pay arguement on 11:36 - Nov 14 by homer_123 |
Herein lies the problem.
"...experience and expertise in the role."
Strictly speaking, if you are both employed to do that role, then you should be paid the same nowadays. |
Strictly speaking yes but he's got maybe 1 years experience against my 20+.
If he got the same as me my CEO would be for a meeting without coffee. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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| Equal pay arguement on 16:01 - Nov 14 with 727 views | longtimefan |
| Equal pay arguement on 14:02 - Nov 14 by saxon |
The wider corporate group my company is part of collects the figures not only for each company within the group but for various categories / levels within each company. Which has laudable aims, but is just leading to manipulation, certainly within my organisation, by redesignating roles to make the figures appear that the gap doesn't exist / exists to other way round. If that's happening across the group then the headline "our gender pay gap has decreased" announcement is meaningless. |
My understanding is that the headline gender pay gap reported is across a company as a whole. Both mean and median gaps have to be reported. Companies also have to report bonus gender gaps on the same basis too. The only other requirements are to report the % male and female in each quartile of the companies pay structure, and the proportion of males and females receiving bonuses. The type of manipulation you are talking about will therefore only affect internally released company statistics, not the regulatory reported figures. | | | |
| Equal pay arguement on 18:44 - Nov 14 with 689 views | sparks |
| Equal pay arguement on 14:02 - Nov 14 by SmithersJones |
Gender pay gap data is reported on an "average hourly rate" basis so pro rating is taken into account. |
Based on contracted rather than worked hpurs though... |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
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| Equal pay arguement on 23:19 - Nov 14 with 648 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Equal pay arguement on 10:04 - Nov 14 by sparks |
One interesting argument is the idea that part time workers should be paid the same- and that the tendency for that not always to happen discrimnates against women. I have some sympathy for that view which, on the surface, may well be correct.
There are many instances though, where a part time worker inevitably will find it harder to progress for entirely reasonable reasons.
If you have a big client and are deciding which employee is going to be their main contact - do you pick the employee who is there daily, working late until 6.30 and always available when the client wants something, or do you pick the part timer (who is equally competent) who finishes at 2.30 each day to collect children etc, and generally isnt contactable thereafter?
It ties in to the other common beef about part time workers. Full timers often work longer than contracted hours. Part timers do so far less often.- I suspect- theres no point being part time if you come in on your days off, or leave at the same time as everyone else! |
Spot on. You also have the issues of:
a) When the part time person isn't in, a full timer has to cover if anything becomes urgent when they aren't there.
b) When new work comes in, invariably this gets passed onto the people that are in the office full time.
The gender pay gap is always massively over-simplified. There are a number of factors in play, of which gender is one, but it doesn't equate to anything like the full reason for differences in pay. | | | |
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| Equal pay arguement on 09:42 - Nov 15 with 607 views | vapour_trail |
| Equal pay arguement on 10:04 - Nov 14 by sparks |
One interesting argument is the idea that part time workers should be paid the same- and that the tendency for that not always to happen discrimnates against women. I have some sympathy for that view which, on the surface, may well be correct.
There are many instances though, where a part time worker inevitably will find it harder to progress for entirely reasonable reasons.
If you have a big client and are deciding which employee is going to be their main contact - do you pick the employee who is there daily, working late until 6.30 and always available when the client wants something, or do you pick the part timer (who is equally competent) who finishes at 2.30 each day to collect children etc, and generally isnt contactable thereafter?
It ties in to the other common beef about part time workers. Full timers often work longer than contracted hours. Part timers do so far less often.- I suspect- theres no point being part time if you come in on your days off, or leave at the same time as everyone else! |
I think this is less the case these days. Certainly in my experience. I have people who are flexible hours and part time, due to parental responsibilities, and they will be online and available out of hours as much as those who are full time. In some cases they are more likely to jump back on once the kids are in bed. |  |
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| Equal pay arguement on 09:46 - Nov 15 with 603 views | 26_Paz |
I think everyone in an organisation should be able to see how much everyone else in that organisation gets paid. It will shame those shirkers who are on a packet and empower those who work hard and are underpaid to ask for more (regardless of gender). |  |
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| Equal pay arguement on 10:03 - Nov 15 with 596 views | hampstead_blue |
| Equal pay arguement on 09:46 - Nov 15 by 26_Paz |
I think everyone in an organisation should be able to see how much everyone else in that organisation gets paid. It will shame those shirkers who are on a packet and empower those who work hard and are underpaid to ask for more (regardless of gender). |
Have you seen the Purge films?
I'm joking but there is a serious point in there. Open that can of worms and no work will get done. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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