| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 07:52 - Nov 19 with 2011 views | giant_stow |
| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 22:19 - Nov 18 by Darth_Koont |
It’s always going to be hard when you‘re going to duck the links and things I’m talking about. Even when I’m addressing your point of view.
Let’s leave it. You’ll just p!ss me off even more. |
Grow up fella. Honesty! |  |
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| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 07:55 - Nov 19 with 2008 views | jimmyvet |
| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 07:20 - Nov 19 by GlasgowBlue |
And this is the fault of British Jews because? |
The responses from around half a dozen posters in this site in my eyes are antisemitic. I would think the moderators should be taking a long hard look at some on here. The post the other day from Noggins about when they all leave inferring he would by a cheap property in Golders Green and the post you are referring too that British Jews are some how associating with US foreign policy is absolutely disgusting. |  | | |
| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 08:03 - Nov 19 with 1990 views | lowhouseblue |
| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 22:18 - Nov 18 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Honest question, do you think the Conservative Party are "engaging with people in the centre"?
My view is that the electorate seems generally significantly right of centre and Brexit has shifted it there. I get the idea that in our electoral system more parties on the right might split that vote but we currently have LibDem, Green and Labour all with significant support on the left or centre whereas Brexit Party has formed a loose alliance with the Conservatives on the right and there is no other party right of centre with significant backing. |
the tories are getting a free ride because people in the centre have nowhere to go at present. for most people in the broad centre of uk politics it's now just a question of trying to decide which lot are least bad. for me they are, in different ways, equally bad and I won't be forced into supporting either of them. lots of the voters who have previously voted labour, and who gave us 3 labour governments, will now vote tory or opt out. that's the centre that corbyn has repulsed.
my take is that the consensus in the uk is by a large majority socially progressive. in terms of economics and security it is cautious and, if anything, moderately conservative. therefore if a party can't convince enough voters that they can manage the economy well and protect uk citizens at home and abroad, they stand no chance whatsoever. corbyn hasn't made any attempt to win over people on those key issues. I wouldn't trust him with the economy and I wouldn't trust him to protect uk interests or security. if you want an economically progressive government it first has to convince people that it is credible, trust worthy and competent. corbyn's lot has contempt for anyone who doesn't already agree with them - they have zero credibility and no one other than the true believers trusts them. [Post edited 19 Nov 2019 8:04]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 08:03 - Nov 19 with 1988 views | artsbossbeard |
| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 07:55 - Nov 19 by jimmyvet |
The responses from around half a dozen posters in this site in my eyes are antisemitic. I would think the moderators should be taking a long hard look at some on here. The post the other day from Noggins about when they all leave inferring he would by a cheap property in Golders Green and the post you are referring too that British Jews are some how associating with US foreign policy is absolutely disgusting. |
Noggins comment was soooo done in parody that it's a little embarrassing that it needs pointing out to you.
Here's how it works. GB finds some articles about Corbyn and anti-Semitism and posts it on here. Others know that there's some differing views within the Jewish community and post to counter. Then a Battle Royale ensues where the winner is judged on who upset the Jewish Community the least and/or Phil gets involved.
Importantly, the original point gets lost because it has all just turned to white noise now. |  |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 08:05 - Nov 19 with 1974 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 07:55 - Nov 19 by jimmyvet |
The responses from around half a dozen posters in this site in my eyes are antisemitic. I would think the moderators should be taking a long hard look at some on here. The post the other day from Noggins about when they all leave inferring he would by a cheap property in Golders Green and the post you are referring too that British Jews are some how associating with US foreign policy is absolutely disgusting. |
noggin’s post was one of the all time lows on here. And it barely raised a murmur.
As I said at the time, could you imagine the reaction if somebody who was right wing dismissed the concerns of any other minority community who expressed fears of racism against them and then joked about how he or she could pick ups cheap property in the area the minority formally lived because so many properties were empty after the minority community fled in fear. |  |
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| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 08:25 - Nov 19 with 1951 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 07:18 - Nov 19 by GlasgowBlue |
6th post in
And again 6h post in
Oh Jeremy..... by Steve_M 23 Mar 2018 19:39It's been known about for a while, this chap even wrote a pertinent blog about it:
https://medium.com/@twlldun/the-socialism-of-fools-cb3426fc10bf
At the very best Corbyn is blind to anti-Semitism, that's not an ideal position for a prospective Prime Minister, but he is quite prepared to indulge it in people he thinks are on the 'right side'.
Then there is the thread deleted by Phil where you defended Piers Corbyn’s antisemitic tweets. [Post edited 19 Nov 2019 7:33]
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I'll repeat.
Where do I defend racism?
And if I remember, the Pier Corbyn "defence" was that Lee Kern, another bad faith smearer like yourself had rearranged and edited Corbyn's quotes to say something far worse.
Run along. |  |
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| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 08:27 - Nov 19 with 1943 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 07:52 - Nov 19 by giant_stow |
Grow up fella. Honesty! |
Be honest, ullaa.
You've never even looked at any of this. Just dismissed it. | |
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| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 08:33 - Nov 19 with 1928 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 08:25 - Nov 19 by Darth_Koont |
I'll repeat.
Where do I defend racism?
And if I remember, the Pier Corbyn "defence" was that Lee Kern, another bad faith smearer like yourself had rearranged and edited Corbyn's quotes to say something far worse.
Run along. |
Antisemitism is racism.
I linked two examples of where you have defended antisemitism. 1) You agreed with Pete Willsman’s antisemitic statement that got him suspended from Labou. 2) You defended the antisemitic mural.
This is the tweet that Piers Corbyn retweeted which you said was not antisemitic.
Just for clarity, is the tweet antisemitic? Yes or no? | |
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| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 08:39 - Nov 19 with 1927 views | vapour_trail |
| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 08:05 - Nov 19 by GlasgowBlue |
noggin’s post was one of the all time lows on here. And it barely raised a murmur.
As I said at the time, could you imagine the reaction if somebody who was right wing dismissed the concerns of any other minority community who expressed fears of racism against them and then joked about how he or she could pick ups cheap property in the area the minority formally lived because so many properties were empty after the minority community fled in fear. |
Nonce vote. |  |
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| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 08:42 - Nov 19 with 1912 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 08:39 - Nov 19 by vapour_trail |
Nonce vote. |
Yes. Not even close to the lowest moment in GB's "career" on here.
But how can someone make light of a community's fears like that? | |
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| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 08:57 - Nov 19 with 1882 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 08:50 - Nov 19 by Darth_Koont |
Woah!
I talked about Piers Corbyn's statements and how Lee Kern "re-wrote" them for maximum smear effect.
Yes, the tweet is antisemitic. And the driving force in them is complete conspiracy fantasy territory about Rothschild, the Bilderberg group and what looks like our own Royal Family. But I've said the Rothschild stuff is an antisemitic trope and has been for well over a hundred years.
Why are you conflating the two and pretending what I was or wasn't defending? [Post edited 19 Nov 2019 8:57]
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We didn’t discuss Lee Kern. You brought him up. I linked the tweet and you denied the antisemitism in it.
Pleasing to see you have “been on a journey” and now accept Piers Corbyn engaged in promoting antisemitic conspiracy theories.
Now does your journey lead you to no longer defend Pete Willsman’s antisemitic Stevens or the antisemitic murals? | |
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| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 09:13 - Nov 19 with 1870 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 08:57 - Nov 19 by GlasgowBlue |
We didn’t discuss Lee Kern. You brought him up. I linked the tweet and you denied the antisemitism in it.
Pleasing to see you have “been on a journey” and now accept Piers Corbyn engaged in promoting antisemitic conspiracy theories.
Now does your journey lead you to no longer defend Pete Willsman’s antisemitic Stevens or the antisemitic murals? |
My "Bad Faith" alarm has just rung itself off the wall.
I didn't deny that Rothschild is an antisemitic trope. I think in time-honoured GB style I was defending Corbyn from the attack that his retweet was a clear sign he's an antisemite. Rather than a massive conspiracy theorist.
I have no reason to go into the other stuff. Which I responded to in detail at the time. It'll just be me having to correct and defend myself against your bad faith accusations of what I have or have not said. Just like now. | |
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| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 09:29 - Nov 19 with 1831 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 09:13 - Nov 19 by Darth_Koont |
My "Bad Faith" alarm has just rung itself off the wall.
I didn't deny that Rothschild is an antisemitic trope. I think in time-honoured GB style I was defending Corbyn from the attack that his retweet was a clear sign he's an antisemite. Rather than a massive conspiracy theorist.
I have no reason to go into the other stuff. Which I responded to in detail at the time. It'll just be me having to correct and defend myself against your bad faith accusations of what I have or have not said. Just like now. |
If somebody is going to have a repeated history of tweeting antisemitic conspiracy theories then they run the risk of being accused of antisemitism. It follows that those defending said person sending antisemitic tweets is defending antisemitism. As you did with Willsman and the mural. | |
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| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 09:44 - Nov 19 with 1819 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 09:29 - Nov 19 by GlasgowBlue |
If somebody is going to have a repeated history of tweeting antisemitic conspiracy theories then they run the risk of being accused of antisemitism. It follows that those defending said person sending antisemitic tweets is defending antisemitism. As you did with Willsman and the mural. |
See? There you go.
You stick to your accusing narrative, I'll stick to discussing the actual evidence. | |
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| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 11:18 - Nov 19 with 1778 views | Ryorry |
| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 08:03 - Nov 19 by artsbossbeard |
Noggins comment was soooo done in parody that it's a little embarrassing that it needs pointing out to you.
Here's how it works. GB finds some articles about Corbyn and anti-Semitism and posts it on here. Others know that there's some differing views within the Jewish community and post to counter. Then a Battle Royale ensues where the winner is judged on who upset the Jewish Community the least and/or Phil gets involved.
Importantly, the original point gets lost because it has all just turned to white noise now. |
"Importantly, the original point gets lost because it has all just turned to white noise now"
Agree. With most contributors so entrenched in their viewpoints, it seems impossible to have a truly nuanced but searching discussion on this topic on the forum now.
Looking at the bigger picture, I wonder how the Labour Party got from choosing between two Jewish brothers for their leader in 2010, to where they're at now re antisemitism. It doesn't simply boil down to smearing by msm as far as I'm concerned. |  |
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| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 12:09 - Nov 19 with 1750 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 11:18 - Nov 19 by Ryorry |
"Importantly, the original point gets lost because it has all just turned to white noise now"
Agree. With most contributors so entrenched in their viewpoints, it seems impossible to have a truly nuanced but searching discussion on this topic on the forum now.
Looking at the bigger picture, I wonder how the Labour Party got from choosing between two Jewish brothers for their leader in 2010, to where they're at now re antisemitism. It doesn't simply boil down to smearing by msm as far as I'm concerned. |
Re: your last paragraph, the tone changed even when Miliband was leader and criticised Israel. And the same period of the Gaza strikes in 2014 saw the emergence of organisations like the Campaign Against Antisemitism who were set up to counter what they saw as a rise in antisemitism after those attacks. Then everything was ramped up when Corbyn, an even more committed pro-Palestine campaigner became leader. And it also became entwined in the separate party political battle both inside Labour and outside.
The data itself doesn't support a rise in antisemitism within Labour over that period. It does however support a rise in the volume and intensity of the accusations, aided and abetted by a mainstream that is largely silent but mostly negative when it does speak and also uncritically repeats the accusations.
I and others have shared the research on here before. But if there's anything you want to look at in more detail, just ask and I'll post it. | |
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| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 12:20 - Nov 19 with 1719 views | itfcjoe |
| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 12:09 - Nov 19 by Darth_Koont |
Re: your last paragraph, the tone changed even when Miliband was leader and criticised Israel. And the same period of the Gaza strikes in 2014 saw the emergence of organisations like the Campaign Against Antisemitism who were set up to counter what they saw as a rise in antisemitism after those attacks. Then everything was ramped up when Corbyn, an even more committed pro-Palestine campaigner became leader. And it also became entwined in the separate party political battle both inside Labour and outside.
The data itself doesn't support a rise in antisemitism within Labour over that period. It does however support a rise in the volume and intensity of the accusations, aided and abetted by a mainstream that is largely silent but mostly negative when it does speak and also uncritically repeats the accusations.
I and others have shared the research on here before. But if there's anything you want to look at in more detail, just ask and I'll post it. |
It seems obvious to me that Corbyn is quite anti 'The West' in his views of foreign affairs - I really don't think it much more than that.
I'm not well read (or interested enough) to take a proper view on Israel and Palestine, but it looks as though our Governments (and the US) have always taken the side of Israel, whereas Corbyn has taken it off Palestine.
That then seems to be seen as anti-semetic.
But then people who have views I generally respect in politics more in the centre left seem to believe that there is anti-semitism there. It's confusing from the outside, but it really doesn't feel like that big an issue, in the same way that to me palestine doesn't seem that big an issue |  |
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| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 12:50 - Nov 19 with 1687 views | noggin |
| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 12:20 - Nov 19 by itfcjoe |
It seems obvious to me that Corbyn is quite anti 'The West' in his views of foreign affairs - I really don't think it much more than that.
I'm not well read (or interested enough) to take a proper view on Israel and Palestine, but it looks as though our Governments (and the US) have always taken the side of Israel, whereas Corbyn has taken it off Palestine.
That then seems to be seen as anti-semetic.
But then people who have views I generally respect in politics more in the centre left seem to believe that there is anti-semitism there. It's confusing from the outside, but it really doesn't feel like that big an issue, in the same way that to me palestine doesn't seem that big an issue |
"in the same way that to me palestine doesn't seem that big an issue."
It would if you lived in Gaza. |  |
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| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 12:59 - Nov 19 with 1669 views | itfcjoe |
| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 12:50 - Nov 19 by noggin |
"in the same way that to me palestine doesn't seem that big an issue."
It would if you lived in Gaza. |
You could say that about nearly all issues | |
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| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 13:00 - Nov 19 with 1667 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 12:20 - Nov 19 by itfcjoe |
It seems obvious to me that Corbyn is quite anti 'The West' in his views of foreign affairs - I really don't think it much more than that.
I'm not well read (or interested enough) to take a proper view on Israel and Palestine, but it looks as though our Governments (and the US) have always taken the side of Israel, whereas Corbyn has taken it off Palestine.
That then seems to be seen as anti-semetic.
But then people who have views I generally respect in politics more in the centre left seem to believe that there is anti-semitism there. It's confusing from the outside, but it really doesn't feel like that big an issue, in the same way that to me palestine doesn't seem that big an issue |
Palestine is a big issue (even though there is frequently more serious stuff happening elsewhere). But the problem with Palestine/Israel has it's been going on for decades and decades so it becomes much more of a totemic struggle between supporters and opponents on both sides. Like a Vietnam or the anti-apartheid campaigns.
The occupation of Palestine when seen through the lens of largely uncritical Israeli support from the US and the UK appears to be colonialism by proxy - and something that's been propped up by a generally self-interested approach to the Middle East from those two countries. Others will no doubt disagree entirely with the anti-imperialist view and argue it's all about protecting freedom.
The issue is that if people believe in peace and co-existence then supporting Israel uncritically has made the widely agreed two-state solution practically impossible. Netanyahu and far right in Israel have been emboldened to ignore any notions of Palestinian legitimacy and the right to exist in those territories.
To me, and the majority of the international community that's a crime. But it also says a lot about our government and power in the UK. I expect better from our politicians to do what is right and be honest and transparent about that, rather than what suits their narrow power or ideological interests. And I certainly don't expect them to stand silently by hoping no-one is noticing.
Re: the antisemitism, the Economist did a recent survey in the US and the UK that looked at antisemitism across the spectrum. In the UK and the States antisemitism is lower on the left or at least the same as in the centre. And higher on the right. But anti-Israel beliefs are much higher on the left than the right.
Given what we know about the left's genuine antiracism credentials from Civil rights, anti-colonialism to apartheid it's pretty apparent that the legitimate anti-Israel criticism is the real problem here. And that's shown by the people leading the antisemitism charge, from the Israeli government itself to the most committed pro-Israel groups. So much so that they'll ignore the antisemitic views on the right to embrace those who are otherwise pro-Israel out of nationalist and islamophobic reasons.
So it's a serious and bitter mess. But I think at the heart of it these issues are important to all of us and how we are represented by politicians and governments. To me, the most worrying aspect and most important lesson, is that political beliefs are as illogical and potentially dangerous as religious beliefs and we need to be MUCH more objective and critical of what we think is right and fair — and why we think that. | |
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| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 13:01 - Nov 19 with 1662 views | StokieBlue |
| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 12:50 - Nov 19 by noggin |
"in the same way that to me palestine doesn't seem that big an issue."
It would if you lived in Gaza. |
The thing is he is probably correct for the vast majority of people in the UK given they don't live in Gaza.
I suspect they are more worried about their jobs, NHS or something specifically local to them than they are recognising Palestine as a country or illegal settlements in Gaza.
You can of course debate the rights and wrongs of that and whether it's an issue with our populace or not.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 16:52 - Nov 19 with 1569 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 09:44 - Nov 19 by Darth_Koont |
See? There you go.
You stick to your accusing narrative, I'll stick to discussing the actual evidence. |
He retweeted antisemitic conspiracies and you defended him by passing him off as an eccentric nutter who is into conspiracy theories. Racist conspiracy theories are still racist. They are not harmless. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion were used by the Nazis to stoke up Jew hate. And the stuff Piers Corbyn tweets and retweets is along the same lines. Some of it is straight from neo Nazi websites of the type used by the Pittsburgh murderer.
I just don’t get why in thread after thread you are so keen to jump to the defence of people who put out this vile filthy racism? Only you can answer that I suppose. [Post edited 19 Nov 2019 17:10]
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| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 17:08 - Nov 19 with 1551 views | Bluesquid |
| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 08:05 - Nov 19 by GlasgowBlue |
noggin’s post was one of the all time lows on here. And it barely raised a murmur.
As I said at the time, could you imagine the reaction if somebody who was right wing dismissed the concerns of any other minority community who expressed fears of racism against them and then joked about how he or she could pick ups cheap property in the area the minority formally lived because so many properties were empty after the minority community fled in fear. |
"...after the minority community fled in fear."
Wtf?
"The reason for the exodus is one that affects many other residents: soaring house prices. For the ultra-Orthodox, though, this is exacerbated by the fact that they often have large families, with up to seven or more children. This means not only that they need large properties, but also that those children in turn have large families and so the need for lots of housing in the same area is in great demand."
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/orthodox-judaism-canvey-island-bbc-stamford | | | |
| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 17:15 - Nov 19 with 1539 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn article from a Jew may be of interest on 16:52 - Nov 19 by GlasgowBlue |
He retweeted antisemitic conspiracies and you defended him by passing him off as an eccentric nutter who is into conspiracy theories. Racist conspiracy theories are still racist. They are not harmless. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion were used by the Nazis to stoke up Jew hate. And the stuff Piers Corbyn tweets and retweets is along the same lines. Some of it is straight from neo Nazi websites of the type used by the Pittsburgh murderer.
I just don’t get why in thread after thread you are so keen to jump to the defence of people who put out this vile filthy racism? Only you can answer that I suppose. [Post edited 19 Nov 2019 17:10]
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I think your memory is failing you.
I know I was talking about Lee Kern's bad faith reading and rewriting of Piers Corbyn's tweet to make it antisemitic.
I'm guessing you were doing your usual trick of piling in with other stuff instead of addressing what was being debunked in front of you. | |
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