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Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism 07:59 - Nov 19 with 757 viewsWeWereZombies

But he says he was just taking part in an online discussion and this was seven years ago:

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/tories-suspend-aberdeen-north-general-electio

I think there is a free speech issue here, if potential political representatives and activists cannot engage in discussion without fear of being labelled as something at some point in the future just because of who they are engaging with how can anything be discussed?

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Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 08:07 - Nov 19 with 743 viewsSwansea_Blue

PC gone mad. You can’t even deny the holocaust now without being labelled an antisemite!
[Post edited 19 Nov 8:53]

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Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 08:11 - Nov 19 with 733 viewsGlasgowBlue

Holocaust denial is not freedom of speech. In sone European countries it’s a crime. Holocaust denial should be shut down immediately. There is no debate.

The right decision is to suspend him as it would be with the Leeds candidate.




[Post edited 19 Nov 8:14]

"History is made, sadly, by people who are bystanders and do nothing. Their inaction is an excuse and a cover for intolerance".
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Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 08:17 - Nov 19 with 711 viewsWeWereZombies

Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 08:11 - Nov 19 by GlasgowBlue

Holocaust denial is not freedom of speech. In sone European countries it’s a crime. Holocaust denial should be shut down immediately. There is no debate.

The right decision is to suspend him as it would be with the Leeds candidate.




[Post edited 19 Nov 8:14]


As far as I can make out he did not deny the holocaust, he was in an online discussion with someone else who wanted to support David Irving's 'right to free speech' and talked that over with them. And he was only 20 at the time. You can attack him for a callow and immature lack of judgement but unless some text comes out that shows Ryan Houghton actually wanting to give some exposure to Irving's viewpoint I think he has been hard done by.

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Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 08:24 - Nov 19 with 691 viewsGlasgowBlue

Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 08:17 - Nov 19 by WeWereZombies

As far as I can make out he did not deny the holocaust, he was in an online discussion with someone else who wanted to support David Irving's 'right to free speech' and talked that over with them. And he was only 20 at the time. You can attack him for a callow and immature lack of judgement but unless some text comes out that shows Ryan Houghton actually wanting to give some exposure to Irving's viewpoint I think he has been hard done by.


He suggested some events around the Holocaust had been exaggerated. That’s Holocaust revision. He also praised David Irving.

We keep seeing these caught trotting the same excuses. “I was Young at the time” “my words were taken out of context”.

The Scottish Tory party have seen his posts and concluded there was enough evidence to suspend him.

"History is made, sadly, by people who are bystanders and do nothing. Their inaction is an excuse and a cover for intolerance".
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Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 08:35 - Nov 19 with 668 viewsWeWereZombies

Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 08:24 - Nov 19 by GlasgowBlue

He suggested some events around the Holocaust had been exaggerated. That’s Holocaust revision. He also praised David Irving.

We keep seeing these caught trotting the same excuses. “I was Young at the time” “my words were taken out of context”.

The Scottish Tory party have seen his posts and concluded there was enough evidence to suspend him.


Are you sure it was him who suggested the exaggeration? If it is only someone internal at the party who has seen the posts how can you know that it is not some infighting that has has seen an opportunity to replace a candidate with their associate.

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Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 08:44 - Nov 19 with 644 viewsGlasgowBlue

Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 08:35 - Nov 19 by WeWereZombies

Are you sure it was him who suggested the exaggeration? If it is only someone internal at the party who has seen the posts how can you know that it is not some infighting that has has seen an opportunity to replace a candidate with their associate.


I’ve sen a report of what he posted but the linked images were too blurred for my eyes to cope on an iPhone. The report quoted him as saying that although “there is no credible evidence to suggest the Holocaust did not happen” but that “I do find some of the events fabricated, and exegarated [sic] in some cases.”

He added: “As history is written by the victors there is always going to be a bit of re-writing.”
Holocaust revision.

He’ll have his chance to prove his innocence.

"History is made, sadly, by people who are bystanders and do nothing. Their inaction is an excuse and a cover for intolerance".
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Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 08:48 - Nov 19 with 633 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

I think he probably represents an existential threat!

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Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 08:50 - Nov 19 with 624 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 08:17 - Nov 19 by WeWereZombies

As far as I can make out he did not deny the holocaust, he was in an online discussion with someone else who wanted to support David Irving's 'right to free speech' and talked that over with them. And he was only 20 at the time. You can attack him for a callow and immature lack of judgement but unless some text comes out that shows Ryan Houghton actually wanting to give some exposure to Irving's viewpoint I think he has been hard done by.


I am afraid you will find that GB has dug rather a deep hole.

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Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 09:30 - Nov 19 with 593 viewsfactual_blue

I think anybody who engages inj a debate about or with irving is - unless they are a professional historian - showing extremely poor judgement at the very least, and it's difficult to feel any sympathy.

I can't see that his engagement in the debate was to refute irving's lies and misrepresentations.

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Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 09:31 - Nov 19 with 585 viewsGlasgowBlue

Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 08:50 - Nov 19 by BanksterDebtSlave

I am afraid you will find that GB has dug rather a deep hole.


Consistency on an issue isn’t digging a hole.

Digging a hole is constantly defending racism from Labour members and candidates so as to leave one powerless to call it out from the other side.

"History is made, sadly, by people who are bystanders and do nothing. Their inaction is an excuse and a cover for intolerance".
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Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 09:41 - Nov 19 with 564 viewsWeWereZombies

Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 09:30 - Nov 19 by factual_blue

I think anybody who engages inj a debate about or with irving is - unless they are a professional historian - showing extremely poor judgement at the very least, and it's difficult to feel any sympathy.

I can't see that his engagement in the debate was to refute irving's lies and misrepresentations.


At the moment we do not know what Ryan Houghton said but one thing I took from the film 'Denial' was that if you leave people like David Irving unchallenged then their theories fester and spread. It is necessary to shine a light on these matters to show them up, not everyone can pick a lock but almost everyone can hold a torch.

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Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 09:46 - Nov 19 with 552 viewsSteve_M

Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 09:41 - Nov 19 by WeWereZombies

At the moment we do not know what Ryan Houghton said but one thing I took from the film 'Denial' was that if you leave people like David Irving unchallenged then their theories fester and spread. It is necessary to shine a light on these matters to show them up, not everyone can pick a lock but almost everyone can hold a torch.


Irving has been properly challenged, most notably in a libel court where he lost his claim for defamation. He is a holocaust denier and Nazi apologist.

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Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 09:50 - Nov 19 with 542 viewsGuthrum

Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 09:30 - Nov 19 by factual_blue

I think anybody who engages inj a debate about or with irving is - unless they are a professional historian - showing extremely poor judgement at the very least, and it's difficult to feel any sympathy.

I can't see that his engagement in the debate was to refute irving's lies and misrepresentations.


The thing about Irving is that, however much anybody may disagree with his views and conclusions (including whose words he believes), he's done a lot of research, has much ammunition and is an extremely tricky adversary.

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Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 09:54 - Nov 19 with 536 viewsfactual_blue

Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 09:50 - Nov 19 by Guthrum

The thing about Irving is that, however much anybody may disagree with his views and conclusions (including whose words he believes), he's done a lot of research, has much ammunition and is an extremely tricky adversary.


I think he was described by Professor Sir Ian Kershaw as an excellent archivist, but a bad historian.

Professor Sir Richard Evans, the chief expert witness in the Lipstadt libel case (the 'Denial' film) described Irving as 'a bit like a dim student who didn't listen. If he didn't get the answer he wanted [when questioning witnesses during the trial], he just repeated the question.'

Sir Ian and Sir Richard are the two leading British experts on 20th Century German History. Sir Richard also tore apart michael gove's ridiculous and jingoistic views on the teaching of WW1 history.
[Post edited 19 Nov 9:56]

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Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 09:58 - Nov 19 with 526 viewsDarth_Koont

To be fair, the right wing is riddled with antisemitism and the Conservatives haven't done enough about it. Or something like that ...

But, more seriously, you raise a very good point. Going on the basis that it's still unclear what was said or in what context, it does seem to be a case of guilt by association with a subject rather than clearly expressing hateful views. From what I've read so far, anyway.

Let's hope the candidate gets a proper hearing and investigation before sentence is passed by all and sundry.
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I have no idea at all where this thread is heading now Glassers and Koonters on 10:06 - Nov 19 with 499 viewsDyland

are here.

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Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 10:09 - Nov 19 with 488 viewschicoazul

Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 09:46 - Nov 19 by Steve_M

Irving has been properly challenged, most notably in a libel court where he lost his claim for defamation. He is a holocaust denier and Nazi apologist.


He also lives in a really big house in Scotland and seems to have loads of money & all the trappings of success like some Arabian princeling, which is weird.

Words are a medium that reduces reality to abstraction for transmission to our reason, and in their power to corrode reality inevitably lurks the danger that the words will be corroded too. It might be more appropriate, in fact, to liken their action to excessive stomach fluids that digest and gradually eat away the stomach itself.
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Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 10:14 - Nov 19 with 468 viewsDarth_Koont

Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 10:09 - Nov 19 by chicoazul

He also lives in a really big house in Scotland and seems to have loads of money & all the trappings of success like some Arabian princeling, which is weird.


Seem to remember some alt-right loon bought the house and gave it to him.

Irving's certainly the poster boy for some pretty extreme ideologues.
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Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 10:20 - Nov 19 with 458 viewschicoazul

Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 10:14 - Nov 19 by Darth_Koont

Seem to remember some alt-right loon bought the house and gave it to him.

Irving's certainly the poster boy for some pretty extreme ideologues.


Rumour has it he is funded by a family from one of the more unsavoury mid-east regimes who enjoy his work. I of course have no idea.

Words are a medium that reduces reality to abstraction for transmission to our reason, and in their power to corrode reality inevitably lurks the danger that the words will be corroded too. It might be more appropriate, in fact, to liken their action to excessive stomach fluids that digest and gradually eat away the stomach itself.
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Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 11:05 - Nov 19 with 424 viewscaught-in-limbo

"I think there is a free speech issue here"

There is indeed.

Where there is free speech, there is always the risk of hate speech but freedom of speech is the most basic of human rights and the means by which societies regulate themselves - so one must always choose to have both than to have neither.

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Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 12:23 - Nov 19 with 380 viewsWeWereZombies

Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 09:46 - Nov 19 by Steve_M

Irving has been properly challenged, most notably in a libel court where he lost his claim for defamation. He is a holocaust denier and Nazi apologist.


That is pretty much my point Stevie M. And we need to keep the denouncement of his fabrications current and firmly booted into touch. So, unless Ryan Houghton has fully backed Irving, I am troubled by an apparent hounding out of candidacy of a young man who had an internet discussion seven years ago. Far better that young people mull over these matters and come to their own, on the face of it, firmly held conclusions than that they just accept things parrot fashion.

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I have no idea at all where this thread is heading now Glassers and Koonters on 12:50 - Nov 19 with 347 viewsGlasgowBlue

I have no idea at all where this thread is heading now Glassers and Koonters on 10:06 - Nov 19 by Dyland

are here.


Antisemitism and Holocaust denial/revision should be condemned from wherever or who ever it comes. It early is that simple if you have no party political axe to grind.

"History is made, sadly, by people who are bystanders and do nothing. Their inaction is an excuse and a cover for intolerance".
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I completely agree on 12:53 - Nov 19 with 335 viewsDyland

I have no idea at all where this thread is heading now Glassers and Koonters on 12:50 - Nov 19 by GlasgowBlue

Antisemitism and Holocaust denial/revision should be condemned from wherever or who ever it comes. It early is that simple if you have no party political axe to grind.


And am pleasantly surprised this thread hasn't descended yet into pure whataboutery.

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Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 18:29 - Nov 19 with 228 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

Conservative candidate suspended for anti-semitism on 09:31 - Nov 19 by GlasgowBlue

Consistency on an issue isn’t digging a hole.

Digging a hole is constantly defending racism from Labour members and candidates so as to leave one powerless to call it out from the other side.


Could you highlight the examples of racism from Labour members that I have defended?
I appreciate that having laboured the antisemitism is endemic and represents an existential threat card you feel obliged to make passing reference to the occasional bad egg in other parties.....quite a hole you have dug there, can't see you crawling out of it in a hurry.

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