| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire 08:25 - Nov 20 with 21550 views | GlasgowBlue |
This is important read and shows that that Corbyn blatantly lied about racism at the leaders debate.
Jewish sitting Labour councillor
Jewish Labour National Secretary
Given evidence under oath to the EHRC
130 outstanding antisemitism cases before the NCC
Jewish Labour have submitted details to the EHRC of thousands of cases left unresolved
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| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 09:51 - Nov 20 with 5953 views | Guthrum |
| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 09:46 - Nov 20 by tractordownsouth |
I appreciate the issue, and I'd agree with that statement if the Prime Minister had a clean record with regards to racism. That may sound like whatabouttery, but the whole point of an election is choosing between alternatives, and in our system there are only 2 potential prime ministers. So that statement is quite misleading because whatever happens, we are going to end up with either a party with an anti- semitism issue or an Islamophobia issue. I'm not saying that it's not a serious issue, but allowing the Tories in because of Labour's racism issues ( or vice-versa) doesn't give anyone the moral high ground.
I'm going to be voting Liberal Democrat. I live in a LD/Tory marginal and the Lib Dem bloke we have doesn't support the revoke without a ref policy, which I think would be undemocratic. However, otherwise I would not be voting for them. Therefore, I think dismissing the point about good labour MPs is quite hasty. Whilst I support Labour, I wouldn't vote for a Ken Livingstone or Jared O Mara type, whereas I'd be happy to vote for someone like Keir Starmer. The individual candidate is very important. |
There are not only two potential Prime Ministers - see my reply to Glassers. |  |
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| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 09:51 - Nov 20 with 5953 views | Steve_M |
| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 09:45 - Nov 20 by GaryCooper |
FFS he shagged the shadow home secretary at his wife's expense. |
Was Corbyn married when he had a relationship with Abbott? It was over 30 years ago. |  |
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| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 09:52 - Nov 20 with 5953 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 09:27 - Nov 20 by itfcjoe |
"It is false and simplistic to suggest that every vote for Labour is a vote for anti-semitism. It can be a vote for the people within the party trying to change it and prevent this poison from spreading further. It is therefore up to voters to look at their local Labour candidate, examine their record, and decide whether they can support them.
The argument on consequences is also powerful. We are talking about the official opposition. To give up on voting for Labour at all carries heavy political and constitutional implications.
On Brexit, it means that we give up on any opposition to Johnson's hardline plan, which will dictate the status and wellbeing of this country for a generation to come. There is no route to stopping it outside of Labour. The Liberal Democrats are not going to win a majority. Unless there is a Labour government - ideally in a minority position relying on the support of the Lib Dems, SNP and others - this thing cannot be altered. It hands Johnson a carte blanche to do whatever he wants. It is a complete surrender.
But in reality the implication is deeper even than that. If the opposition party is so corrupted that it cannot be supported, the constitutional function of British democracy collapses. There is, quite literally, no opposition to the government. None is possible. And that goes much further than Brexit. It touches every issue and the entire basis upon which our political system operates.
And yet these concerns themselves have a consequence. Let's say you only vote for your Labour MP if you feel they will fight the good fight within Labour. That MP - decent or not - is another step towards Corbyn entering No.10. You cannot divorce a more nuanced view of Labour from the implications which follow from it. You are part of that.
There is no right answer to this. My personal judgement is for the second argument - that Labour can be fixed, that those within the party fighting to fix it must be supported, that the consequences of allowing the main opposition party to die are too serious to be imagined. But the other position is not just valid - it is convincing. And more than that: It is devastating. It makes any option open to us right now a ghastly one.
We should not be in this position. But we are. And now each person must make their moral choice. No-one should be judged on the basis of it, whichever side they land." |
To add to your point about believing Labour can be fixed, it's pertinent to point out that the tweet Glassers quoted is from a Labour councillor. So there's every hope. |  |
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| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 09:55 - Nov 20 with 5945 views | tractordownsouth |
| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 09:45 - Nov 20 by GaryCooper |
FFS he shagged the shadow home secretary at his wife's expense. |
You can't seriously be using that as an argument... do you know who the Prime Minister is?? |  |
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| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 09:55 - Nov 20 with 5945 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 09:46 - Nov 20 by Darth_Koont |
This isn't a cheap joke after last night but I think this needs fact-checking.
"130 outstanding antisemitism cases before the NCC" doesn't sound a lot given the Labour Party have themselves admitted they've looked into hundreds of cases per year. So why are these 130 special?
"Thousands of cases left unresolved" But these aren't outstanding cases? Where are they then? |
Whilst the evidence of extermination camps in the UK remains pretty thin perhaps genuine crises such as the collapsing NHS, homelessness, poverty and exponential rise in food banks should be of slightly more concern? The Labour PR machine doesn't do much to accuse the Tories of overt racism to muslims and blacks (unless they are rich)- and rightly so....despite the government deporting and excluding black britons - and ignoring problematic muslims and their children , even inflicting them on other countries. IF JC had treated a few dozen Jews in this way there might be something of an outcry. |  |
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| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 09:56 - Nov 20 with 5942 views | Steve_M |
| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 09:52 - Nov 20 by Swansea_Blue |
To add to your point about believing Labour can be fixed, it's pertinent to point out that the tweet Glassers quoted is from a Labour councillor. So there's every hope. |
The aftermath of this election will tell us. There is a certain amount of manoeuvring going on that seems more concerned with a Long-Bailey/Pidcock double act than anything else.
It loses Corbyn's dubious history which might help but doesn't add anymore dynamism or competence tot he Party. | |
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| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 09:58 - Nov 20 with 5933 views | Darth_Koont |
| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 09:00 - Nov 20 by lowhouseblue |
in the next six months - and it won't be immediate and it will happen a bit by bit and people won't own up about it straight away - a lot of people are going to be reflecting on the positions they've taken, and the things they've excused, and the people they've sided with - all on the basis that anything was better than the tories. it looks like the tories will be secure for another 5 years and people will then start to accept that ignoring or excusing extremists and racists hasn't got them anywhere at all. |
What's your evidence for saying people are "ignoring or excusing extremists and racists"?
No-one is excusing cases of antisemitism here. Antisemitism like any other racism should be called out and dealt with wherever and whenever it raises its head. |  |
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| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 09:58 - Nov 20 with 5931 views | GaryCooper |
| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 09:55 - Nov 20 by tractordownsouth |
You can't seriously be using that as an argument... do you know who the Prime Minister is?? |
It was a counter to the statement that Johnson had shagged on the countries expense, as has Corbyn. |  | | |
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| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 10:02 - Nov 20 with 5912 views | lowhouseblue |
| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 09:58 - Nov 20 by Darth_Koont |
What's your evidence for saying people are "ignoring or excusing extremists and racists"?
No-one is excusing cases of antisemitism here. Antisemitism like any other racism should be called out and dealt with wherever and whenever it raises its head. |
oh really come off it. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 10:06 - Nov 20 with 5893 views | giant_stow |
| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 09:22 - Nov 20 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I appreciate that you are in too deep to back track....it is how this sheep sh1t works! |
Hardly mr - I swing in thw wind of evidence and opinion and will be more than happy to eat plop if the EHRC finds in Labour's favour. Just not convinced by your side's arguments right now - apols. |  |
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| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 10:07 - Nov 20 with 5892 views | wkj |
| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 10:02 - Nov 20 by lowhouseblue |
oh really come off it. |
Yes, people have questioned what constitutes as antisemitism, and even question why the discussion on it seems to revolve around specific cases, but i believe that the accusation (or thinly veiled insinuation) that anyone on here is antisemitic is fundamentally flawed, either that or ammunition used when people have an axe to grind. [Post edited 20 Nov 2019 10:09]
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| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 10:07 - Nov 20 with 5891 views | Darth_Koont |
| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 10:02 - Nov 20 by lowhouseblue |
oh really come off it. |
I'm being serious. You made a blithe statement that doesn't bear much scrutiny. | |
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| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 10:15 - Nov 20 with 5868 views | lowhouseblue |
| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 10:07 - Nov 20 by Darth_Koont |
I'm being serious. You made a blithe statement that doesn't bear much scrutiny. |
do you read any of your own posts? this is getting weird now. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 10:17 - Nov 20 with 5856 views | Darth_Koont |
| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 10:15 - Nov 20 by lowhouseblue |
do you read any of your own posts? this is getting weird now. |
Yep. Thought so. | |
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| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 10:24 - Nov 20 with 5836 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 09:08 - Nov 20 by giant_stow |
Yeah but 300 something or other. |
Yeah, who wants facts? |  |
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| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 10:27 - Nov 20 with 5830 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 09:05 - Nov 20 by GlasgowBlue |
Indeed. I read this the other day and it hits the nail on the head.
“ Understand the dilemma facing Remainers. But there's no way round it. You either accept Corbyn and his anti-Semitism is a price worth paying to stop Brexit, or you don't. Pacts. Voting for "good Labour MPs". It's all meaningless. You're just going to have to make the call.
And if you do accept Corbyn and anti-Semitism are a price worth paying, fine. But then the line's been crossed for good. And you can't complain when other people make the same calculation that racism is an acceptable price for resolution of issues they care passionately about” |
"accept Corbyn and his anti-Semitism"
I've never seen a guy be so passionately against antisemitism. | |
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| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 10:28 - Nov 20 with 5826 views | giant_stow |
| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 10:24 - Nov 20 by BrixtonBlue |
Yeah, who wants facts? |
Me! | |
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| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 10:31 - Nov 20 with 5820 views | giant_stow |
| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 09:05 - Nov 20 by GlasgowBlue |
Indeed. I read this the other day and it hits the nail on the head.
“ Understand the dilemma facing Remainers. But there's no way round it. You either accept Corbyn and his anti-Semitism is a price worth paying to stop Brexit, or you don't. Pacts. Voting for "good Labour MPs". It's all meaningless. You're just going to have to make the call.
And if you do accept Corbyn and anti-Semitism are a price worth paying, fine. But then the line's been crossed for good. And you can't complain when other people make the same calculation that racism is an acceptable price for resolution of issues they care passionately about” |
This argument simply isn't fair and punishes good MPs who have fought back against the party. There's no moral problem with voting for someone like Stella Creasy. | |
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| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 10:36 - Nov 20 with 5788 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 09:29 - Nov 20 by lowhouseblue |
absolutely, the tories are utterly awful. but people haven't been offered a plausible alternative. that's the tragedy. it's an appalling failure by the left to give people a way of escaping a dreadful tory government.
I am starting to think I will have to hold my nose and vote lib dem rather than spoil my ballot. depressing time |
You keep saying "people" when you mean 'you'. Labour's not a plausible alternative FOR YOU. Fine, we get it. They are for many many of us for which Labour is a fantastic alternative. So please stop saying "people" to look like it's everyone. It's disingenuous politico-speak. | |
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| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 10:36 - Nov 20 with 5789 views | Darth_Koont |
| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 10:28 - Nov 20 by giant_stow |
Me! |
You literally can't handle them. | |
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| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 10:39 - Nov 20 with 5783 views | jontysnut |
| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 09:20 - Nov 20 by Oldsmoker |
Corbyn lied.
He said there were 33,000 nurse vacancies in the NHS.
The true figure is 39,500 - Source : NHS.
What a b*strd. |
there are probably even more than that as data is gathered from advertised vacancies and often adverts will include more than one post. Tories will say that there are more nurses and doctors (10,000 vacancies) than ever before but this doesn't take into account increase in demand, population etc. There may well be more but there are not enough. Ad to that cuts to public health and social care, resulting in more people going to GP and A&E, then you have a perfect storm. |  | | |
| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 10:51 - Nov 20 with 5761 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 09:49 - Nov 20 by Guthrum |
Part of the problem is this idea that the LibDems cannot possibly win in a large proportion of seats.
Which is, of course, an utter fallacy. If enough people vote for them, they could win anywhere. There is no immoveable blockage, even under FPTP.
It is pure laziness - or deliberate denigration in order to prop up the Lab/Con habitual vote. |
Nice idea in theory, but it would need a totemic shift in perceptions and voting behaviour. Butt yes, in principle if people weren't as entrenched in their politics we could have the Lib Dems in number 10 (or the Greens or anyone else with a national presence).
I wonder what it would take and whether we'll ever see the like. | |
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| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 11:06 - Nov 20 with 5732 views | giant_stow |
| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 10:36 - Nov 20 by Darth_Koont |
You literally can't handle them. |
You are right, I can't quite seem to agree with you. | |
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| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 11:39 - Nov 20 with 5671 views | lowhouseblue |
| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 10:36 - Nov 20 by BrixtonBlue |
You keep saying "people" when you mean 'you'. Labour's not a plausible alternative FOR YOU. Fine, we get it. They are for many many of us for which Labour is a fantastic alternative. So please stop saying "people" to look like it's everyone. It's disingenuous politico-speak. |
well we'll see won't we. it's not an alternative if it's nowhere near being elected. the polls (which are of limited value) suggest that nowhere near enough of 'the people' are prepared to support it to get close to it forming a government.
this really isn't about what you think is fantastic - it's about who has enough support to form the next government. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Bearded man runs out of ITV studio with his pants on fire on 11:41 - Nov 20 with 5665 views | bracknell_blue |
Tories accusing Labour of lying! Pot, kettle, black. Johnson is the ultimate liar. |  |
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