| Get Brexit Done is the biggest non-truth* out there 10:34 - Nov 25 with 1819 views | Darth_Koont |
https://infacts.org/johnsons-biggest-lie-is-that-hell-get-brexit-done/
*It's not exactly a lie but the implication that Brexit will be over and done with any time soon is complete pie-in-the-sky stuff. The government will likely need its full 5-year term to address it — and even then it might still be their slogan going into a 2024 election.
Meanwhile we'll have years and years of this stuff to look forward to dominating our politics, media coverage and most importantly business, the economy and society. All under the "non-control" of a government who thinks the best direction is objectively the worst for the economy and has only barely been able to navigate a withdrawal agreement in three years.
What chance do people give them of negotiating an actual functioning trade agreement by December next year and before we just crash out on our @rses instead? I think Norwich have more chance of being 10 points clear at the top of the Premier League by then.
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| Get Brexit Done is the biggest non-truth* out there on 11:14 - Nov 25 with 1762 views | WeWereZombies |
Good article that, pulls together a lot of pertinent information quite well. |  |
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| Get Brexit Done is the biggest non-truth* out there on 12:21 - Nov 25 with 1711 views | Darth_Koont |
This is a great (and frightening) summary at the end:
"Step by step, we're making all the same mistakes, all over again. No honesty in the rhetoric, no realistic assessment of timescales or capacity, no idea what we're doing, no realism about the world around us, and a repeated habit of creating pointless artificial timetables, to satisfy short-term political pressures, which undermine our own negotiating position.
They call this patriotism. But it is precisely the opposite. It is the sabotaging of the national interest in order to further the interests of Boris Johnson."
He missed out on another thing though. On top of the business community going potty, they'll also be staving off independence referendum calls from Scotland and likely some serious grumblings and rumblings from Northern Ireland. I think we're now entering the properly chaotic phase. | |
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| Bojo is an utterly contemptible scumbag on 12:24 - Nov 25 with 1701 views | Dyland |
| Get Brexit Done is the biggest non-truth* out there on 12:21 - Nov 25 by Darth_Koont |
This is a great (and frightening) summary at the end:
"Step by step, we're making all the same mistakes, all over again. No honesty in the rhetoric, no realistic assessment of timescales or capacity, no idea what we're doing, no realism about the world around us, and a repeated habit of creating pointless artificial timetables, to satisfy short-term political pressures, which undermine our own negotiating position.
They call this patriotism. But it is precisely the opposite. It is the sabotaging of the national interest in order to further the interests of Boris Johnson."
He missed out on another thing though. On top of the business community going potty, they'll also be staving off independence referendum calls from Scotland and likely some serious grumblings and rumblings from Northern Ireland. I think we're now entering the properly chaotic phase. |
The idea he acts in the country's interests is laughable and exhausting. I really can't believe I'm thinking of voting for Corbyn, but there we go. |  |
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| Get Brexit Done is the biggest non-truth* out there on 12:39 - Nov 25 with 1671 views | hampstead_blue |
Good article. Thanks for sharing.
I think BJ's statement about getting a trade deal done by the end of 2020 is daft.
The point about fishing alone will keep the RN busy! Those French are a militant bunch and don't give-up without a fight.
I think the EU will over time grind us down. They have more collective might and they also have the key trade relationships we need and want. Things such as frictionless borders are critical for us.
I do think there is a solution to my last point but the EU won't allow it.
They've started as they will continue, they don't want us to leave and will basically nail us at every corner.
Will it ever end? Only when the EU get what they want.
The other option is No Deal. To me that is the same type of economic suicide as getting Corbyn into power.
The brakes on Brexit are the EU. They could do a deal but let's not be naive, they won't.
They will just sit there and screw us until we revoke.
What a horrid situation to be in. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Bojo is an utterly contemptible scumbag on 12:39 - Nov 25 with 1672 views | HARRY10 |
| Bojo is an utterly contemptible scumbag on 12:24 - Nov 25 by Dyland |
The idea he acts in the country's interests is laughable and exhausting. I really can't believe I'm thinking of voting for Corbyn, but there we go. |
Unfortunately there are still those gullible enough to think all this nonsense is about pandering to their bigotry and 'little england' mentality. And that the wealthy who are funding brexit are doing so to enhance the lot of the unemployed man in a council house in Sunderland.
Pretty much every claim made by Leave has turned out to be blatant misinformation at best, or a clear lie at worst. There are no 'sunny uplands' or wondrous deals... simply because there never could have been. Any more than if we were to leave the FL because we object to the rules of the game and paying into th FL we can then set up games against Barcelona, Milan, PSG etc and play by any rules we think suit us.
Pure fantasy land, from first to last.
It was never anything else than finding a way to reduce costs of production ie your wages and holidays, your health care and the cost of food safety. Leave the EU and employees in the UK can be had for far cheaper.
US healthcare, food safety and employees holidays. All of which are far lower than they are currently in the UK. And folk trust a lying charlatan like Johnson not to sell them down the river like he has done with the DUP, hs wife, his immediate family and pretty much every one who has employed him.................but not this time, say the gormless. |  | | |
| Get Brexit Done is the biggest non-truth* out there on 14:48 - Nov 25 with 1616 views | Steve_M |
| Get Brexit Done is the biggest non-truth* out there on 12:39 - Nov 25 by hampstead_blue |
Good article. Thanks for sharing.
I think BJ's statement about getting a trade deal done by the end of 2020 is daft.
The point about fishing alone will keep the RN busy! Those French are a militant bunch and don't give-up without a fight.
I think the EU will over time grind us down. They have more collective might and they also have the key trade relationships we need and want. Things such as frictionless borders are critical for us.
I do think there is a solution to my last point but the EU won't allow it.
They've started as they will continue, they don't want us to leave and will basically nail us at every corner.
Will it ever end? Only when the EU get what they want.
The other option is No Deal. To me that is the same type of economic suicide as getting Corbyn into power.
The brakes on Brexit are the EU. They could do a deal but let's not be naive, they won't.
They will just sit there and screw us until we revoke.
What a horrid situation to be in. |
"I do think there is a solution to my last point but the EU won't allow it.
They've started as they will continue, they don't want us to leave and will basically nail us at every corner."
The entire point of the Single Market though is it encompasses free movement of goods, capital, labour and services. Cutting one part of that out - the bit about people - and keeping the bits the UK likes weakens the whole thing - it's not vindictive as much as self-interest.
Also common standards - non-tariff barriers - only work within the single market when all countries hold to them as a minimum standard. The desire for a US trade deal, which will inevitably come with demands for lower food standards, is not compatible with the the UK staying aligned to Europe.
Even now, 3.5 years after the referendum, as a country we're ignoring a real debate about the consequences of any future trading relationship. Indeed the only people who really know what they want are the deregulatory-ultras who want to lower all standards. The UK still hasn't come up with a sensible plan for what it wants in terms of it's future relationship with the EU. |  |
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| Get Brexit Done is the biggest non-truth* out there on 20:01 - Nov 25 with 1551 views | Oldsmoker |
| Get Brexit Done is the biggest non-truth* out there on 14:48 - Nov 25 by Steve_M |
"I do think there is a solution to my last point but the EU won't allow it.
They've started as they will continue, they don't want us to leave and will basically nail us at every corner."
The entire point of the Single Market though is it encompasses free movement of goods, capital, labour and services. Cutting one part of that out - the bit about people - and keeping the bits the UK likes weakens the whole thing - it's not vindictive as much as self-interest.
Also common standards - non-tariff barriers - only work within the single market when all countries hold to them as a minimum standard. The desire for a US trade deal, which will inevitably come with demands for lower food standards, is not compatible with the the UK staying aligned to Europe.
Even now, 3.5 years after the referendum, as a country we're ignoring a real debate about the consequences of any future trading relationship. Indeed the only people who really know what they want are the deregulatory-ultras who want to lower all standards. The UK still hasn't come up with a sensible plan for what it wants in terms of it's future relationship with the EU. |
This bit
Even now, 3.5 years after the referendum, as a country we're ignoring a real debate about the consequences of any future trading relationship. Indeed the only people who really know what they want are the deregulatory-ultras who want to lower all standards. The UK still hasn't come up with a sensible plan for what it wants in terms of it's future relationship with the EU.
Therein lies the problem.
Any deal that we agree with a country outside the EU, during the time we are negotiating a trade deal with the EU, will bring the EU negotiations to a stop until the EU have digested the deal and see how it affects things.
The UK needs to have a framework so that the UK and the EU can work together to form an agreement that works.
Johnson seems to view this as EU v UK when it isn't - it's a compromise not an argument. |  |
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| Get Brexit Done is the biggest non-truth* out there on 20:12 - Nov 25 with 1532 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Get Brexit Done is the biggest non-truth* out there on 12:39 - Nov 25 by hampstead_blue |
Good article. Thanks for sharing.
I think BJ's statement about getting a trade deal done by the end of 2020 is daft.
The point about fishing alone will keep the RN busy! Those French are a militant bunch and don't give-up without a fight.
I think the EU will over time grind us down. They have more collective might and they also have the key trade relationships we need and want. Things such as frictionless borders are critical for us.
I do think there is a solution to my last point but the EU won't allow it.
They've started as they will continue, they don't want us to leave and will basically nail us at every corner.
Will it ever end? Only when the EU get what they want.
The other option is No Deal. To me that is the same type of economic suicide as getting Corbyn into power.
The brakes on Brexit are the EU. They could do a deal but let's not be naive, they won't.
They will just sit there and screw us until we revoke.
What a horrid situation to be in. |
I’d phrase it slightly differently, but yeah effectively that’s the situation. The EU are the larger, more powerful party in any future negotiations and will not need to bend as much as us (“will get what they want”). That’s inevitable, and reasonable from their side in that it’s their ‘club’ we’re leaving.
It’s completely daft to set a hard deadline, puts the pressure on (again) and hands negotiating leverage to the EU (again). They’ve learnt nothing. But that’s probably because Brexit as a whole has always been about electioneering rather than a genuine attempt to reach a positive conclusion.
Same old mistakes, and possibly the same outcome we’ve had so far (assuming the Tories get in).
But I don’t agree with the idea that the EU are continually thwarting our attempts to leave. That view’s inconsistent with events so far - people need a greater awareness of our multiple failures in all of this. |  |
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| Get Brexit Done is the biggest non-truth* out there on 07:57 - Nov 26 with 1435 views | Steve_M |
Here's Sir Ivan Rogers on the same theme. Had May and Timothy kept him in post and not sacked him because they didn't like being told how the EU worked we would probably have left by now with something a lot of the country could live with.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/25/johnson-sowing-seeds-of-biggest
"The pressure to “get Brexit done” will mean that if returned as prime minister, Johnson will soon make “a lot of concessions” to secure his deal.
“Because we are under time pressure and known to be desperate to ‘escape vassalage’ by the end of 2020 … the EU side just sees a huge open goal opportunity and repeats its playbook from the article 50 process,” Rogers added." | |
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| Get Brexit Done is the biggest non-truth* out there on 08:05 - Nov 26 with 1417 views | gordon |
| Get Brexit Done is the biggest non-truth* out there on 07:57 - Nov 26 by Steve_M |
Here's Sir Ivan Rogers on the same theme. Had May and Timothy kept him in post and not sacked him because they didn't like being told how the EU worked we would probably have left by now with something a lot of the country could live with.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/25/johnson-sowing-seeds-of-biggest
"The pressure to “get Brexit done” will mean that if returned as prime minister, Johnson will soon make “a lot of concessions” to secure his deal.
“Because we are under time pressure and known to be desperate to ‘escape vassalage’ by the end of 2020 … the EU side just sees a huge open goal opportunity and repeats its playbook from the article 50 process,” Rogers added." |
I'd just read that too - the failure of the media, the leader's debates, and the opposition to make it clear what the situation is on Brexit has been pathetic. The fact that Corbyn is 'neutral' is what it is, but the problem is that he doesn't want to talk about Brexit, and isn't very good at exposing the flaws in the Tory position either. So the idea that Brexit is going to be done by the end of January just hasn't been challenged at all. |  | | |
| Get Brexit Done is the biggest non-truth* out there on 08:43 - Nov 26 with 1387 views | Blueorder |
| Get Brexit Done is the biggest non-truth* out there on 08:05 - Nov 26 by gordon |
I'd just read that too - the failure of the media, the leader's debates, and the opposition to make it clear what the situation is on Brexit has been pathetic. The fact that Corbyn is 'neutral' is what it is, but the problem is that he doesn't want to talk about Brexit, and isn't very good at exposing the flaws in the Tory position either. So the idea that Brexit is going to be done by the end of January just hasn't been challenged at all. |
The cult of brexit rumbles on and on. There is no clear direction or end in sight yet the great British public would still vote to exit the EU given another chance. |  | | |
| Get Brexit Done is the biggest non-truth* out there on 10:18 - Nov 26 with 1329 views | WeWereZombies |
| Get Brexit Done is the biggest non-truth* out there on 08:43 - Nov 26 by Blueorder |
The cult of brexit rumbles on and on. There is no clear direction or end in sight yet the great British public would still vote to exit the EU given another chance. |
And this despite one of their senior figures and one time leadership candidate saying that true Conservatives should vote Liberal Democrat in the coming election:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50555146 | |
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| Get Brexit Done is the biggest non-truth* out there on 10:26 - Nov 26 with 1316 views | caught-in-limbo |
You reckon? |  |
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| Get Brexit Done is the biggest non-truth* out there on 13:47 - Nov 26 with 1263 views | Steve_M |
| Get Brexit Done is the biggest non-truth* out there on 07:57 - Nov 26 by Steve_M |
Here's Sir Ivan Rogers on the same theme. Had May and Timothy kept him in post and not sacked him because they didn't like being told how the EU worked we would probably have left by now with something a lot of the country could live with.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/25/johnson-sowing-seeds-of-biggest
"The pressure to “get Brexit done” will mean that if returned as prime minister, Johnson will soon make “a lot of concessions” to secure his deal.
“Because we are under time pressure and known to be desperate to ‘escape vassalage’ by the end of 2020 … the EU side just sees a huge open goal opportunity and repeats its playbook from the article 50 process,” Rogers added." |
The full speech is far more depressing. The repeated refusal to engage in detail should be a massive concern to everyone whether they are in favour of Brexit or not.
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/ivan-rogers-on-brexit-the-worst-is-y | |
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| Get Brexit Done is the biggest non-truth* out there on 14:13 - Nov 26 with 1237 views | WeWereZombies |
So if you are fed up with Brexit then the best thing to do is vote Liberal Democrat, see the revocation of Article 50 (either because by some miracle they get a majority or, by almost as much of a miracle they have enough clout in a coalition to make that happen) and a smooth welcome back into the European Union (which will probably take some spectacular domestic law enforcement) so that everyone can leave the bureaucrats to run things a little more effectively than has been the case for the last three and a half years? | |
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