| Labour should have walked this election. 13:39 - Dec 5 with 5946 views | usm |
It was/is there for the taking, but Corbyn is simply unelectable.
Far too much of a risk, economically and security so it looks like its going to be the Tories again, largely due to the lack of a viable alternative. |  |
| |  |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 10:28 - Dec 6 with 1066 views | Herbivore |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 10:23 - Dec 6 by lowhouseblue |
the spending and borrowing which labour is claiming is without precedent. and it rises by the day. the problem they have isn't to do with ideology it's to do with economic credibility. radical reform, good. crashing the economy, very bad. |
It'll be fine, stop worrying. |  |
| |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 10:35 - Dec 6 with 1062 views | lowhouseblue |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 10:28 - Dec 6 by Herbivore |
It'll be fine, stop worrying. |
I doubt it will happen, but it would be utterly calamitous. it is fiscally mad on the scale they are proposing (again it's the scale not the principle - increasing public spending and public investment are both needed, what Corbyn is proposing will wreck the economy). |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 11:11 - Dec 6 with 1037 views | Herbivore |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 10:35 - Dec 6 by lowhouseblue |
I doubt it will happen, but it would be utterly calamitous. it is fiscally mad on the scale they are proposing (again it's the scale not the principle - increasing public spending and public investment are both needed, what Corbyn is proposing will wreck the economy). |
You do know they aren't planning on delivering all of their manifesto on day 1, right? | |
| |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 11:17 - Dec 6 with 1030 views | lowhouseblue |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 11:11 - Dec 6 by Herbivore |
You do know they aren't planning on delivering all of their manifesto on day 1, right? |
i do know that, thanks. over 1 parliament, or even over 2, what they are proposing in ludicrous in fiscal terms. we're already at full employment.
when the autopsy comes the lack of economic credibility will be seen as one of key failures of corbyn and co. quite a long list though. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 11:20 - Dec 6 with 1027 views | Herbivore |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 11:17 - Dec 6 by lowhouseblue |
i do know that, thanks. over 1 parliament, or even over 2, what they are proposing in ludicrous in fiscal terms. we're already at full employment.
when the autopsy comes the lack of economic credibility will be seen as one of key failures of corbyn and co. quite a long list though. |
What are your thoughts on where Johnson is going to get 50k nurses and 20k police officers from if we're already at full employment? You're very quiet on Tory policy for some reason. | |
| |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 11:23 - Dec 6 with 1022 views | footers |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 11:17 - Dec 6 by lowhouseblue |
i do know that, thanks. over 1 parliament, or even over 2, what they are proposing in ludicrous in fiscal terms. we're already at full employment.
when the autopsy comes the lack of economic credibility will be seen as one of key failures of corbyn and co. quite a long list though. |
In that case, why did New Labour continue to get your vote? They were hugely financially irresponsible.
And we're not at full employment. Go to the Jobcentre and have a look. |  |
| |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 11:27 - Dec 6 with 1018 views | Herbivore |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 11:23 - Dec 6 by footers |
In that case, why did New Labour continue to get your vote? They were hugely financially irresponsible.
And we're not at full employment. Go to the Jobcentre and have a look. |
Yeah, of late I've seen him backtracking quite a bit on his support of New Labour. It's almost like he's not and never has been a Labour supporter. | |
| |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 11:34 - Dec 6 with 1000 views | lowhouseblue |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 11:23 - Dec 6 by footers |
In that case, why did New Labour continue to get your vote? They were hugely financially irresponsible.
And we're not at full employment. Go to the Jobcentre and have a look. |
we've discussed this on a previous thread. in terms of domestic policy the 1997 to 2010 governments were great. they saw an unprecedented rebuilding of public services and the biggest expansion of public spending ever (I stand to be corrected on that). brilliant progressive governments which transformed life in the uk. they didn't get everything right and in particular, at the end of the period, they overspent - I linked the ifs report which shows this very clearly.
so there's a lesson there - all governments, however radical their intentions, need fiscal discipline. corbyn and co have none.
and we are at full employment. if you can't get your head around basis macro concepts what hope is there. full employment doesn't mean no job vacancies. jeez. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Labour should have walked this election. on 11:34 - Dec 6 with 999 views | lowhouseblue |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 11:27 - Dec 6 by Herbivore |
Yeah, of late I've seen him backtracking quite a bit on his support of New Labour. It's almost like he's not and never has been a Labour supporter. |
grow up. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 11:36 - Dec 6 with 995 views | Herbivore |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 11:34 - Dec 6 by lowhouseblue |
grow up. |
How very mature of you. | |
| |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 11:40 - Dec 6 with 984 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 11:27 - Dec 6 by Herbivore |
Yeah, of late I've seen him backtracking quite a bit on his support of New Labour. It's almost like he's not and never has been a Labour supporter. |
It's all part of the game for lowers. When it comes to politics he's a plastic gloryhunter.
In fact, he seems to be far more interested in the sport of politics than real sport involving ITFC. |  |
| |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 11:43 - Dec 6 with 982 views | footers |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 11:34 - Dec 6 by lowhouseblue |
we've discussed this on a previous thread. in terms of domestic policy the 1997 to 2010 governments were great. they saw an unprecedented rebuilding of public services and the biggest expansion of public spending ever (I stand to be corrected on that). brilliant progressive governments which transformed life in the uk. they didn't get everything right and in particular, at the end of the period, they overspent - I linked the ifs report which shows this very clearly.
so there's a lesson there - all governments, however radical their intentions, need fiscal discipline. corbyn and co have none.
and we are at full employment. if you can't get your head around basis macro concepts what hope is there. full employment doesn't mean no job vacancies. jeez. |
See this is where it gets a bit odd. On the one hand you're hugely insistent on financial responsibility but on the other also want to get Brexit 'done' despite the possibility of remaining.
You laud New Labour for transformative social policies and the expansion of the welfare state but slate Corbyn for wanting exactly that.
Why it's so difficult for you to give them the benefit of the doubt and give New Labour an easy ride on their record, I have no idea.
Borrowing to invest is wise and something many economists think would have been preferential to austerity. Indeed I among others were arguing that back when it happened. That we have to invest so much to reverse these measures is hardly Corbyn or McDonnell's fault- it's just the reality of how far we've fallen. [Post edited 6 Dec 2019 11:43]
| |
| |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 11:55 - Dec 6 with 970 views | HARRY10 |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 09:50 - Dec 6 by Radlett_blue |
Because (1) if he is PM with a working majority, he will deliver Brexit, which will please around half the country (including many traditional Labour voters).
(2) Because the alternative PM is Jeremy Corbyn. Left wing, borderline Marxist policies don't appeal to many people with experience & knowledge of the impact of those policies. |
" borderline Marxist policies"
Perhaps you could enlighten us all with any of his policies that have the remotest link to anything Marx wriote., as I am sure you will have read up on Marx rather than it being a convenient word to insert into your scaremongering so as to mask the lack of reasomned argument.
Father Jack's use of the word ecumenical springs to mind. |  | | |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 12:00 - Dec 6 with 960 views | footers |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 11:55 - Dec 6 by HARRY10 |
" borderline Marxist policies"
Perhaps you could enlighten us all with any of his policies that have the remotest link to anything Marx wriote., as I am sure you will have read up on Marx rather than it being a convenient word to insert into your scaremongering so as to mask the lack of reasomned argument.
Father Jack's use of the word ecumenical springs to mind. |
None of them have actually read Marx, but it's a nice spectre (geddit) to raise in the hyperbole wars.
Besides, I'm sure Groucho would've voted Labour anyway. | |
| |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 12:06 - Dec 6 with 946 views | lowhouseblue |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 11:43 - Dec 6 by footers |
See this is where it gets a bit odd. On the one hand you're hugely insistent on financial responsibility but on the other also want to get Brexit 'done' despite the possibility of remaining.
You laud New Labour for transformative social policies and the expansion of the welfare state but slate Corbyn for wanting exactly that.
Why it's so difficult for you to give them the benefit of the doubt and give New Labour an easy ride on their record, I have no idea.
Borrowing to invest is wise and something many economists think would have been preferential to austerity. Indeed I among others were arguing that back when it happened. That we have to invest so much to reverse these measures is hardly Corbyn or McDonnell's fault- it's just the reality of how far we've fallen. [Post edited 6 Dec 2019 11:43]
|
"Borrowing to invest is wise". of course. who's disputing that? the question is the scale. what Corbyn and co are proposing is on a scale which would be calamitous - it is not credible.
don't try to pretend that I am opposing public investment of higher public spending - I just want it to be done in a way which is sustainable and doesn't crash the economy. not too much to ask. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 12:12 - Dec 6 with 939 views | footers |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 12:06 - Dec 6 by lowhouseblue |
"Borrowing to invest is wise". of course. who's disputing that? the question is the scale. what Corbyn and co are proposing is on a scale which would be calamitous - it is not credible.
don't try to pretend that I am opposing public investment of higher public spending - I just want it to be done in a way which is sustainable and doesn't crash the economy. not too much to ask. |
"who's disputing that?"
Pretty much every Tory/Lib Dem since the crash and their supporters, who want to use overly simplistic metaphors like personal credit card/household debt to explain away the ruinous austerity regime.
Again, you support Brexit despite the possibility of remaining, so talking about crashing the economy is a bit rich.
As with all parties' manifestos, I very much doubt all of Labour's plans would be fulfilled totally, so hopefully that redresses a bit of that balance for you and we can now count on your vote :)
As I said, the only reason such drastic steps should be taken now is that we've had a decade of devastating cuts and underinvestment. If you believe in the financial strength of the UK, a once-in-a-generation parliament like this is completely in line with where we should be. | |
| |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 12:22 - Dec 6 with 924 views | lowhouseblue |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 12:12 - Dec 6 by footers |
"who's disputing that?"
Pretty much every Tory/Lib Dem since the crash and their supporters, who want to use overly simplistic metaphors like personal credit card/household debt to explain away the ruinous austerity regime.
Again, you support Brexit despite the possibility of remaining, so talking about crashing the economy is a bit rich.
As with all parties' manifestos, I very much doubt all of Labour's plans would be fulfilled totally, so hopefully that redresses a bit of that balance for you and we can now count on your vote :)
As I said, the only reason such drastic steps should be taken now is that we've had a decade of devastating cuts and underinvestment. If you believe in the financial strength of the UK, a once-in-a-generation parliament like this is completely in line with where we should be. |
"I very much doubt all of Labour's plans would be fulfilled totally"
you see you don't even believe the nonsense they're promoting - you're just parroting a party line.
and yes i an absolutely certain that mcdonnell as chancellor would be more damaging economically than brexit. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 12:23 - Dec 6 with 922 views | baxterbasics |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 12:06 - Dec 6 by lowhouseblue |
"Borrowing to invest is wise". of course. who's disputing that? the question is the scale. what Corbyn and co are proposing is on a scale which would be calamitous - it is not credible.
don't try to pretend that I am opposing public investment of higher public spending - I just want it to be done in a way which is sustainable and doesn't crash the economy. not too much to ask. |
Indeed.
Deficit is now vastly improved on 10 yrs ago and economic growth has helped the situation further (albeit slowly).
It is clear that the public mood has shifted from broadly accepting the need for spending restraint in 2010 (remember Labour had their own plans to cut spending, just at a slightly gentler rate) to now demanding more investment in services.
The Tories recognise this which is evident through modest spending commitments being made either via the manifesto or verbally from the PM and other ministers.
Labour have hit warp 10 with their own spending plans, going way beyond any responsible or sensible budgeting, with tax raising proposals that will barely cover half of it. It will not be long before borrowing and/or taxes are ramped up beyond what they have admitted. This will be even more pronounced when wealth takes flight. Expect raids on pensions, massive property and inheritance taxes, possible money printing and inflation. I'm sure they will hold off as long as they can so the borrowing has to be addressed by a future government, Tories again getting the blame. But were Labour to hold power for an extended, Blair-ish period, (quite possible once they've silenced the media and given immigrants the vote) it will end with us eating our pets.
According to the IFS, it is actually the Lib Dems who have the most responsible tax and spend plans. This might be getting more attention in a different election where Brexit is not the dominant issue. |  |
| |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 12:28 - Dec 6 with 913 views | footers |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 12:22 - Dec 6 by lowhouseblue |
"I very much doubt all of Labour's plans would be fulfilled totally"
you see you don't even believe the nonsense they're promoting - you're just parroting a party line.
and yes i an absolutely certain that mcdonnell as chancellor would be more damaging economically than brexit. |
No, I'm just being a realist. Had I said "I totally believe everything" then you'd trot out the same thing about parroting party lines.
Nonsense? What is nonsense? I thought you loved New Labour's "progressive" social policies? What makes these nonsense in your eyes?
Honestly, I believe you used to be a Labour voter, I just can't understand why.
"and yes i an absolutely certain that mcdonnell as chancellor would be more damaging economically than brexit." Show your working. | |
| |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 12:29 - Dec 6 with 911 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 12:06 - Dec 6 by lowhouseblue |
"Borrowing to invest is wise". of course. who's disputing that? the question is the scale. what Corbyn and co are proposing is on a scale which would be calamitous - it is not credible.
don't try to pretend that I am opposing public investment of higher public spending - I just want it to be done in a way which is sustainable and doesn't crash the economy. not too much to ask. |
Your daily reminder that analyses show that the biggest economic risk lies with the tory manifesto... |  |
| |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 12:33 - Dec 6 with 900 views | HARRY10 |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 12:12 - Dec 6 by footers |
"who's disputing that?"
Pretty much every Tory/Lib Dem since the crash and their supporters, who want to use overly simplistic metaphors like personal credit card/household debt to explain away the ruinous austerity regime.
Again, you support Brexit despite the possibility of remaining, so talking about crashing the economy is a bit rich.
As with all parties' manifestos, I very much doubt all of Labour's plans would be fulfilled totally, so hopefully that redresses a bit of that balance for you and we can now count on your vote :)
As I said, the only reason such drastic steps should be taken now is that we've had a decade of devastating cuts and underinvestment. If you believe in the financial strength of the UK, a once-in-a-generation parliament like this is completely in line with where we should be. |
In Labours current position I don't doubt there are plans that are there simply to be traded away should they be in a coalition. This was what the fox hunting stuff was in the Tory manifeston in 2017 for.
Words like 'crashing the economy' are nothing more than scaremongering, to cover the lack of any real postive words to say what Johnson is offering (uncosted proposals that appear to have been made up on the hoof it would seem).
Johnson seems to be making it up as he goes... on an almost daily basis with extra police, nurses and hospital numbers coming out like Father Dougall guessing at the number of sweets in a jar.
As evidence of this there has been the revelation this morning regarding what Johnson claimed about the proposed border between GB and Ireland not being true. Or another lie, to put it bluntly.
Give me a coalition of progressive politicians over this slapdash, cobbled together delusions being put out by Johnson. As the difference is, much of what Labour are wanting will not happen, whereas much of what Johnson is not telling you will happen.
The latter is where the real danger lies. | | | |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 12:36 - Dec 6 with 894 views | ZedRodgers |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 12:29 - Dec 6 by Swansea_Blue |
Your daily reminder that analyses show that the biggest economic risk lies with the tory manifesto... |
And that the current Chancellor is so fiscally astute that he was at Deutsche Bank in 2008 handing out subprime mortgages. |  |
| |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 12:37 - Dec 6 with 892 views | lowhouseblue |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 12:28 - Dec 6 by footers |
No, I'm just being a realist. Had I said "I totally believe everything" then you'd trot out the same thing about parroting party lines.
Nonsense? What is nonsense? I thought you loved New Labour's "progressive" social policies? What makes these nonsense in your eyes?
Honestly, I believe you used to be a Labour voter, I just can't understand why.
"and yes i an absolutely certain that mcdonnell as chancellor would be more damaging economically than brexit." Show your working. |
i have shown my working on multiple threads. if you take an economy at full employment and pump in a £trillion of new spending it won't end well. the £ will fall, interest rates will rise, prises will rise, private investment will collapse. there isn't an economic model in existence that won't show that outcome.
and your only defence is 'well, in practice they won't manage to spend everything they've promised". jeez. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 12:37 - Dec 6 with 889 views | Herbivore |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 12:22 - Dec 6 by lowhouseblue |
"I very much doubt all of Labour's plans would be fulfilled totally"
you see you don't even believe the nonsense they're promoting - you're just parroting a party line.
and yes i an absolutely certain that mcdonnell as chancellor would be more damaging economically than brexit. |
The IFS don't agree with that last bit. | |
| |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 12:40 - Dec 6 with 880 views | lowhouseblue |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 12:37 - Dec 6 by Herbivore |
The IFS don't agree with that last bit. |
all the ifs has looked at is how labour will fund it. they haven't looked at the wider macroeconomic consequences. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
