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4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! 09:57 - Dec 10 with 2067 viewsusm

Where are they all? Burnley ???

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4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 09:58 - Dec 10 with 1110 viewsHerbivore

No, they are pretty much everywhere sadly.

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4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:03 - Dec 10 with 1095 viewsusm

4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 09:58 - Dec 10 by Herbivore

No, they are pretty much everywhere sadly.


How many children are there living in the UK? 20 Million?
Which means 1 in 5 lives in poverty.
Shocking stat, but again where are they?
My daughter works in a primary school in Wandsworth, in a fairly deprived area. Sure there are kids who come from families that struggle financially, but hardly any - if any at all - that could be described as living in poverty.
I just dont know where these figures come from.

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4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:03 - Dec 10 with 1093 viewsLord_Lucan

I am intrigued as to who decides what poverty is.

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4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:11 - Dec 10 with 1077 viewsfooters

4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:03 - Dec 10 by usm

How many children are there living in the UK? 20 Million?
Which means 1 in 5 lives in poverty.
Shocking stat, but again where are they?
My daughter works in a primary school in Wandsworth, in a fairly deprived area. Sure there are kids who come from families that struggle financially, but hardly any - if any at all - that could be described as living in poverty.
I just dont know where these figures come from.


It's relative poverty.

"Relative poverty is the condition in which people lack the minimum amount of income needed in order to maintain the average standard of living in the society in which they live."

But you're right, it is shocking that in one of the most affluent countries in the world that the government could allow this to happen. Question is, what are they going to do about it?

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4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:12 - Dec 10 with 1068 viewsSaleAway

4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:03 - Dec 10 by Lord_Lucan

I am intrigued as to who decides what poverty is.


there's a few different measures, but I think most of the ones used are currently based around level of income relative to the average.... which is not really a measure of poverty IMO, but of inequality.... I'm not saying there isn't a problem, but I think the laypersons view of poverty is not having adequate food/shelter/heat/clothing, but this doesn't measure that.

From Children's society:
How is child poverty measured?
A child is said to be living in poverty when they are living in a family with an income below 60% of the UK's average after adjusting for family size.

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4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:14 - Dec 10 with 1057 viewschicoazul

4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:11 - Dec 10 by footers

It's relative poverty.

"Relative poverty is the condition in which people lack the minimum amount of income needed in order to maintain the average standard of living in the society in which they live."

But you're right, it is shocking that in one of the most affluent countries in the world that the government could allow this to happen. Question is, what are they going to do about it?


Surely, if poverty is based on an average standard of living, inevitably some people will be below the average..? I am not Cotty but isnt that how averages work?

DISCLAIMER; I am not saying it is not bad that some children do not have a home, enough to eat, or shoes. Because it is.

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4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:14 - Dec 10 with 1061 viewsGuthrum

4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:03 - Dec 10 by Lord_Lucan

I am intrigued as to who decides what poverty is.


The standard measure of relative poverty is a household income below 60% of the national median.

In 2018-19, that median was £29,400, so a household would qualify as being in relative poverty with a total income of less than £17,640.

Reasonably comfortable for a single person, not so good for a family.
[Post edited 10 Dec 2019 10:15]

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:14 - Dec 10 with 1053 viewsLord_Lucan

4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:12 - Dec 10 by SaleAway

there's a few different measures, but I think most of the ones used are currently based around level of income relative to the average.... which is not really a measure of poverty IMO, but of inequality.... I'm not saying there isn't a problem, but I think the laypersons view of poverty is not having adequate food/shelter/heat/clothing, but this doesn't measure that.

From Children's society:
How is child poverty measured?
A child is said to be living in poverty when they are living in a family with an income below 60% of the UK's average after adjusting for family size.


Personally I think that the term "Poverty" as it is undermines the relatively small amount of people in the UK that actually live in real poverty.

But hey ho.

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4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:15 - Dec 10 with 1043 viewshampstead_blue

What is the measure?

Poverty is a horrid word and an awful state but in this context 'what' is poverty.

Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me. Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing. Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial. Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid. Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:16 - Dec 10 with 1031 viewsBarneycurley

4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:03 - Dec 10 by usm

How many children are there living in the UK? 20 Million?
Which means 1 in 5 lives in poverty.
Shocking stat, but again where are they?
My daughter works in a primary school in Wandsworth, in a fairly deprived area. Sure there are kids who come from families that struggle financially, but hardly any - if any at all - that could be described as living in poverty.
I just dont know where these figures come from.


It comes from Soundbite city

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4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:17 - Dec 10 with 1025 viewsPinewoodblue

4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:15 - Dec 10 by hampstead_blue

What is the measure?

Poverty is a horrid word and an awful state but in this context 'what' is poverty.


When the parent cannot afford the latest smartphone.

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4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:18 - Dec 10 with 1022 viewsartsbossbeard

4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:03 - Dec 10 by Lord_Lucan

I am intrigued as to who decides what poverty is.


I know of one junior school in one of the Ipswich 'hoods where 95% of attendees are entitled to free school meals as the parents meet govt criteria for this.

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4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:19 - Dec 10 with 1019 viewsFtnfwest

3 million are in single parent families (the rate of which is double many of the other countries in Europe for instance). But for whatever reason the disintegration of marriage/long term commitment/whatever you want to call it, is never presented.
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4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:22 - Dec 10 with 998 viewsLord_Lucan

4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:18 - Dec 10 by artsbossbeard

I know of one junior school in one of the Ipswich 'hoods where 95% of attendees are entitled to free school meals as the parents meet govt criteria for this.


Then fair play to the government for setting such a low bar on the criteria, although if they all took up this entitlement it would severely damage the sustainability of the fried chicken shops in the area.

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4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:22 - Dec 10 with 999 viewsfooters

Some pretty depressing responses to this. It's no wonder the Tories can keep getting away with it if this is what people reckon to *children* living in relative poverty.

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4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:29 - Dec 10 with 958 viewsartsbossbeard

4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:22 - Dec 10 by Lord_Lucan

Then fair play to the government for setting such a low bar on the criteria, although if they all took up this entitlement it would severely damage the sustainability of the fried chicken shops in the area.


Sadly, no more mid morning milk though.

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4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:33 - Dec 10 with 944 viewsLord_Lucan

4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:29 - Dec 10 by artsbossbeard

Sadly, no more mid morning milk though.


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4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:33 - Dec 10 with 941 viewsSwansea_Blue

4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:14 - Dec 10 by Lord_Lucan

Personally I think that the term "Poverty" as it is undermines the relatively small amount of people in the UK that actually live in real poverty.

But hey ho.


It doesn't undermine anything if you know how the term is defined. It is what it is, by definition. It's a marker that can be used to help assess trends over time.

There are other metrics to define the worse situations, e.g. 'persistent poverty' where people have been below the 'poverty' line for at least 2 of the previous 3 years, or 'deep poverty' where people have less that half the money defined by the poverty line. 'Extreme poverty' is used to describe the poorest in the word (less that $1 something to live on per day.

What undermines any sensible discussion and understanding is terse responses about TVs or smartphones or smoking. It just shows up people's ignorance. At the poverty line, even though people won't be living in caves eating rats, there's a significant impact on things like children's fatigue and attention at school. Why wouldn't anyone be concerned by that. Why would anyone be happy to see kids turn up to school hungry or so tired/stressed they can't learn properly?
[Post edited 10 Dec 2019 10:36]

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4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:34 - Dec 10 with 931 viewsElephantintheRoom

What a truly appalling attitude - you should be ashamed.

https://www.childrenssociety.org.uk/what-we-do/our-work/ending-child-poverty/wha

Whilst 'poverty' is a relatively term for virtually everyone in the UK compared to what you might gurn at at a tourist destination the reality of life in the UK for an inceasingly large number that the government is actively increasing rather than trying to tackle is a national scandal.

Get down to your local foodbank if you are arrogant and stupid enough not to realize people are struggling all over the country right now.

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4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:35 - Dec 10 with 926 viewsLord_Lucan

4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:33 - Dec 10 by Swansea_Blue

It doesn't undermine anything if you know how the term is defined. It is what it is, by definition. It's a marker that can be used to help assess trends over time.

There are other metrics to define the worse situations, e.g. 'persistent poverty' where people have been below the 'poverty' line for at least 2 of the previous 3 years, or 'deep poverty' where people have less that half the money defined by the poverty line. 'Extreme poverty' is used to describe the poorest in the word (less that $1 something to live on per day.

What undermines any sensible discussion and understanding is terse responses about TVs or smartphones or smoking. It just shows up people's ignorance. At the poverty line, even though people won't be living in caves eating rats, there's a significant impact on things like children's fatigue and attention at school. Why wouldn't anyone be concerned by that. Why would anyone be happy to see kids turn up to school hungry or so tired/stressed they can't learn properly?
[Post edited 10 Dec 2019 10:36]


You live in Swansea, that's different bananas.

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4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:35 - Dec 10 with 922 viewshampstead_blue

4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:22 - Dec 10 by footers

Some pretty depressing responses to this. It's no wonder the Tories can keep getting away with it if this is what people reckon to *children* living in relative poverty.


Is the answer giving people more money or educating families.

It's so much cheaper to cook from fresh. Bigger portions and much more healthy.
This is controversial but education on spending your income on the essentials first. Smart phones, tv subscription, play stations and things deemed as luxuries should come last.

My fear is if you give people more money they could well just buy more stuff. Now that is controversial but it is a big worry.

If there were a way to increase people's standard of living which wouldn't just encourage ill affordable consumerism than I'd love to see it.
I feel so sad for children who go to school without proper food or clothes. Breaks my heart.

Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me. Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing. Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial. Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid. Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:35 - Dec 10 with 923 viewsClareBlue

4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:03 - Dec 10 by Lord_Lucan

I am intrigued as to who decides what poverty is.


There is a difference between poverty and absolute poverty.

For poverty in UK the definition is:

Each household's income, adjusted for family size, is compared to median income.
The poverty line in the UK is defined as a household income below 60% of the median. This threshold is currently around £195 a week for a lone parent with two children.

There are other indicators, for example hot meals a week, ability to buy a new coat, living with fuel poverty, over crowed/poor housing, etc etc - one of the intersting new indicators is around social inclusion and ability to do things other children do, like school trips or a holiday for a week a year.

Of course household icome takes no account of parents behaviour and addiction issues, which are a significant factor in child poverty.

The above is not absolute poverty - i.e. we are not talking about starving children but how we look at poverty as a rich nation.

One interpretation of all the standard indicators per electroral ward had 8 of the 10 worst wards in the country in Blackpool. So you were not far off with Burnley.

Blackpool is unique in that it has plenty of low cost housing that attracts social excluded people and for some reason alot of people have some fond memories of Blackpool as children and end up back there trying to recreate some secirity and happiness. Blackpool highest level of single parents, highest level of children under supervision of social services, highest level of chronic disability, one of the shortest life expectancies. You would be hard pushed to find anything that indicates poverty in England where Blackpool is not in the top 5.

Child poverty is increasingly seen in the old seaside towns and not the traditional inner city areas. Hastings is another that stands out. The 4 million is because it is a relative figure to median income and not an absolute figure. Some argue this devalues the word 'poverty' because if the criteria was met at an income of 1K per week they would still be defined as living in poverty, others say for rich nation this is the most beneficial way to define it. Having worked in the area of enforcing housing inprovements at the lowest levels, there is no doubt that there is child poverty at a level of complete social exclusion, but in the vast majority of cases, in my experience, there are significant other issues that are contributing to this other than household income.
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4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:37 - Dec 10 with 908 viewsHerbivore

4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:03 - Dec 10 by usm

How many children are there living in the UK? 20 Million?
Which means 1 in 5 lives in poverty.
Shocking stat, but again where are they?
My daughter works in a primary school in Wandsworth, in a fairly deprived area. Sure there are kids who come from families that struggle financially, but hardly any - if any at all - that could be described as living in poverty.
I just dont know where these figures come from.


It's just under a third of chidren actually. They are everywhere. All towns and cities have estates where most of the children are living in poverty.

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4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:37 - Dec 10 with 907 viewsartsbossbeard

4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:33 - Dec 10 by Swansea_Blue

It doesn't undermine anything if you know how the term is defined. It is what it is, by definition. It's a marker that can be used to help assess trends over time.

There are other metrics to define the worse situations, e.g. 'persistent poverty' where people have been below the 'poverty' line for at least 2 of the previous 3 years, or 'deep poverty' where people have less that half the money defined by the poverty line. 'Extreme poverty' is used to describe the poorest in the word (less that $1 something to live on per day.

What undermines any sensible discussion and understanding is terse responses about TVs or smartphones or smoking. It just shows up people's ignorance. At the poverty line, even though people won't be living in caves eating rats, there's a significant impact on things like children's fatigue and attention at school. Why wouldn't anyone be concerned by that. Why would anyone be happy to see kids turn up to school hungry or so tired/stressed they can't learn properly?
[Post edited 10 Dec 2019 10:36]


The Channel 4 programme on poverty the other night was a real eye opener, I thought.

This was until I mentioned it to my Mum, who was keen to point out that one of the mums had an iPhone and she'd obviously not gotten her priorities right. Even though the same said family had hawked a phone already to Cash Converters to put some food in the freezer.

Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing.
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4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:39 - Dec 10 with 889 viewsJakeITFC

4 Million children living in poverty in the UK!!! on 10:35 - Dec 10 by hampstead_blue

Is the answer giving people more money or educating families.

It's so much cheaper to cook from fresh. Bigger portions and much more healthy.
This is controversial but education on spending your income on the essentials first. Smart phones, tv subscription, play stations and things deemed as luxuries should come last.

My fear is if you give people more money they could well just buy more stuff. Now that is controversial but it is a big worry.

If there were a way to increase people's standard of living which wouldn't just encourage ill affordable consumerism than I'd love to see it.
I feel so sad for children who go to school without proper food or clothes. Breaks my heart.


That’s a long way of saying that people are poor because they are stupid.

Inequality exists in this country and that leads to poverty. It’s not an education point, it’s a unjust and unfair point that needs to be addressed.
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