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Campaign for a fairer voting system 10:45 - Dec 14 with 610 viewsmr_bean

Leaving the actual policies and party politics aside.....

With neither of the main parties supporting electoral reform (vested interests and all that), it's unlikely to make much of a difference, but if you are dissatisfied with the current electoral system you can at least make your voice heard:

https://action.electoral-reform.org.uk/page/3782/petition/1

The latest GE has just yielded a thumping majority to a party that received less than 50% of the vote. Furthermore, 45.3% of voters are unrepresented (didn't vote for their MP).

https://ge2019.electoral-reform.org.uk/

That's more than 21.5 million votes discarded (wasted). Can we honestly call that proper democracy?
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Campaign for a fairer voting system on 10:51 - Dec 14 with 586 viewsSwansea_Blue

Nice idea, but last time we had a referendum on this it was as corrupt as the Brexit one. Too many powerful people with too much to lose (like hoped-for peerages, deregulation, etc).

Still worth fighting for, just don’t hold your breath.

Poll: So then cake aficionados, which is your favourite part of Battenberg?

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Campaign for a fairer voting system on 12:04 - Dec 14 with 538 viewsOxford_Blue

every election the parties who don’t win say this.

Every time they win, the system is fine.

Strange that.
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Campaign for a fairer voting system on 12:08 - Dec 14 with 536 viewsTangledupin_Blue

Campaign for a fairer voting system on 12:04 - Dec 14 by Oxford_Blue

every election the parties who don’t win say this.

Every time they win, the system is fine.

Strange that.


That is just nonsense.
[Post edited 14 Dec 2019 12:09]

Poll: Which, in your opinion, is the best form of international cricket...

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Campaign for a fairer voting system on 12:11 - Dec 14 with 526 viewsBigManBlue

Can't help but think the present may have played out a little differently if, having had PR, UKIP had actually won some seats back when they had a decent share of the votes and been forced to go to parliament and actually do something.

Poll: If Bart stays, who's no. 1?

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Campaign for a fairer voting system on 12:19 - Dec 14 with 507 viewsTractorWood

There was a referendum on the AV in 2011. Turnout was 42% and those that did bother voting emphatically said no.

I know that was then, but it could be again..
Poll: At present who do you think you'll vote for?

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Campaign for a fairer voting system on 12:21 - Dec 14 with 502 viewsbraveblue

Yes. It has worked well for a long time. Problem now is that as soon as we have a vote all who lose want a rerun or a change in system. PR would give us countless coalitions like Italy. Shambles.

33% of people did not bother to vote. If we change anything we should do as the do in Australia - vote or pay a fine.
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Campaign for a fairer voting system on 12:28 - Dec 14 with 491 viewsBigManBlue

Campaign for a fairer voting system on 12:21 - Dec 14 by braveblue

Yes. It has worked well for a long time. Problem now is that as soon as we have a vote all who lose want a rerun or a change in system. PR would give us countless coalitions like Italy. Shambles.

33% of people did not bother to vote. If we change anything we should do as the do in Australia - vote or pay a fine.


I think it worked well historically, when people were more likely to vote for a candidate who would serve their local area (and this is something that concerns me about PR/AV/whatever, the lack of local representation and defence of specific regional interests).

However today we have a much more "presidential" style of campaign and party leadership, so it seems we could have a different electoral system to reflect the fact that, overwhelmingly, people vote for a party or a party leader, with national interests massively outweighing local ones for most voters.

I do agree that making voting obligatory would be a good idea. I imagine the Conservatives probably wouldn't be too keen though?

Poll: If Bart stays, who's no. 1?

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Campaign for a fairer voting system on 12:32 - Dec 14 with 484 viewsstonojnr

If you want to see how a pr system works look at Belgium, they had election in May,they are still working out who should form the government, they only had the election because the previous coalition had collapsed and was deadlocked and that coalition came out of the period where they had no government for over a year.

And it's no good using votes in fptp system to judge how a pr vote would look because what were people doing all with their tactical anyone but Boris voting intentions, maybe if all those lib dems supporters had actually voted lib dem not labour theyd have had more seats
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Campaign for a fairer voting system on 12:34 - Dec 14 with 479 viewsTangledupin_Blue

Campaign for a fairer voting system on 12:21 - Dec 14 by braveblue

Yes. It has worked well for a long time. Problem now is that as soon as we have a vote all who lose want a rerun or a change in system. PR would give us countless coalitions like Italy. Shambles.

33% of people did not bother to vote. If we change anything we should do as the do in Australia - vote or pay a fine.


With respect I disagree with you on both counts...

It would likely become usual for no party to have an overall majority. While this may be shambolic initially, the politicians would soon develop the mindset that they must compromise and this would lead to a more consensual type of politics rather than the present adversarial system.

As for compulsory voting... We have many people who are totally uninterested in politics and have no knowledge of what goes on in parliament. I don't see any point in requiring these people to vote.

Poll: Which, in your opinion, is the best form of international cricket...

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Campaign for a fairer voting system on 12:42 - Dec 14 with 463 viewsdeliasplums

Campaign for a fairer voting system on 12:04 - Dec 14 by Oxford_Blue

every election the parties who don’t win say this.

Every time they win, the system is fine.

Strange that.


Utter tripe!

It's 106 miles to Portman Road, we've got a full tank of gas, half a round of Port Salut, it's dark... and we're wearing blue tinted sunglasses.
Poll: Which recent triallist should we have signed?

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Campaign for a fairer voting system on 12:42 - Dec 14 with 462 viewsPinewoodblue

Campaign for a fairer voting system on 12:28 - Dec 14 by BigManBlue

I think it worked well historically, when people were more likely to vote for a candidate who would serve their local area (and this is something that concerns me about PR/AV/whatever, the lack of local representation and defence of specific regional interests).

However today we have a much more "presidential" style of campaign and party leadership, so it seems we could have a different electoral system to reflect the fact that, overwhelmingly, people vote for a party or a party leader, with national interests massively outweighing local ones for most voters.

I do agree that making voting obligatory would be a good idea. I imagine the Conservatives probably wouldn't be too keen though?


Freedom of choice is a cornerstone of democracy. The right to vote is an honour. Making voting obligatory would Be against democracy.

When a party loses an election they need to ask why they failed to get their message over and why so many of their core supporters didn’t vote.

The Labour Party have only themselves to blame, there are no villains to point the finger at.

Those on here who bemoan the outcome need to ask themselves what more they could have done to achieve the result they craved. For the record being a keyboard warrior is not the answer.

Poll: how many changes to starting 11 v Wcombe

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Campaign for a fairer voting system on 12:50 - Dec 14 with 433 viewsmr_bean

Campaign for a fairer voting system on 12:42 - Dec 14 by Pinewoodblue

Freedom of choice is a cornerstone of democracy. The right to vote is an honour. Making voting obligatory would Be against democracy.

When a party loses an election they need to ask why they failed to get their message over and why so many of their core supporters didn’t vote.

The Labour Party have only themselves to blame, there are no villains to point the finger at.

Those on here who bemoan the outcome need to ask themselves what more they could have done to achieve the result they craved. For the record being a keyboard warrior is not the answer.


I take your points, but my original post has nothing to do with bemoaning the outcome of this GE. I've always argued that the current voting system is unfair.

As the points that others have made on this thread illustrate, there is probably no voting system that is 100% fair or efficient.

However, north of 21.5 million votes completely disregarded is an absurd number, wouldn't you agree?
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Campaign for a fairer voting system on 13:00 - Dec 14 with 405 viewsBigManBlue

Campaign for a fairer voting system on 12:42 - Dec 14 by Pinewoodblue

Freedom of choice is a cornerstone of democracy. The right to vote is an honour. Making voting obligatory would Be against democracy.

When a party loses an election they need to ask why they failed to get their message over and why so many of their core supporters didn’t vote.

The Labour Party have only themselves to blame, there are no villains to point the finger at.

Those on here who bemoan the outcome need to ask themselves what more they could have done to achieve the result they craved. For the record being a keyboard warrior is not the answer.


Well, you could still take the fine. Or spoil your paper.

Not sure I bemoaned any particular outcome in that post, merely pointed out that our current system could potentially be adapted to meet the needs of a changing world - this has been the case for as long as I can remember, starting with Blair who certainly campaigned in a similar way to which I described.

Though I'm happy to admit that Labour ran a disastrous campaign. They missed the zeitgeist completely, and Corbyn has evidently been toxic for several years now. I got a pretty good impression of this on the doorsteps, but thanks anyway for the tip.

Poll: If Bart stays, who's no. 1?

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Campaign for a fairer voting system on 13:01 - Dec 14 with 402 viewsClapham_Junction

Campaign for a fairer voting system on 12:32 - Dec 14 by stonojnr

If you want to see how a pr system works look at Belgium, they had election in May,they are still working out who should form the government, they only had the election because the previous coalition had collapsed and was deadlocked and that coalition came out of the period where they had no government for over a year.

And it's no good using votes in fptp system to judge how a pr vote would look because what were people doing all with their tactical anyone but Boris voting intentions, maybe if all those lib dems supporters had actually voted lib dem not labour theyd have had more seats


PR in some form is the most common electoral system used and by and large it works fine because unlike here, parties are grown up about compromising.

Belgium is a special case because of the Flemmish/Walloon split, which makes it very hard to get parties to work together. It isn't an appropriate example to 'prove' that PR doesn't work.
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Campaign for a fairer voting system on 13:32 - Dec 14 with 365 viewsmr_bean

Campaign for a fairer voting system on 12:19 - Dec 14 by TractorWood

There was a referendum on the AV in 2011. Turnout was 42% and those that did bother voting emphatically said no.


I think that that referendum was always destined to result in no change to the system. Too many vested interests.

The low turnout for the AV referendum probably reflected the lack of understanding of the nuances of electoral systems by the general voting population (and therefore the lack of appreciation of just how crucial the issues at stake were).

As Cummings himself has said, the results of referendums tend to preserve the status quo. If someone like him had come along for the AV referendum, put together a few easily-relatable slogans and then thrown a load of money at a campaign, the result could have been different. Like I say, though, too many vested interests to allow that to happen. Better, in their view, to downplay the whole thing.
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