| This rotten electoral system 08:37 - Dec 15 with 2787 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
SNP 3.9% of votes - 48 seats
DUP 0.8% of votes - 8 seats
Sinn fein 0.6% of votes - 7 seats
Tories 43.6% of votes - 365 seats
Greens 2.7% of votes - 1 seat
Brexit was a sideshow. The planet is falling to bits, but the one party that puts the environment first cannot get its voice heard because of our biased electoral system. 2.7% of people is quite a lot, considering that nearly all of those people knew it was a wasted vote. If we had proportional representation, not only would the Greens have won about 17 seats based on the %, but would probably have won way more as the vote is no longer wasted. Meanwhile, under a Tory government, we will continue to be misled that the big issue was Brexit. And we will leave a ruined planet for our children and grandchildren. |  |
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| This rotten electoral system on 08:45 - Dec 15 with 2161 views | bluejacko |
Well on the last part of your post you had better take that up with the likes of India,China and Brazil! Go and take your points there and see what response you get. |  | | |
| This rotten electoral system on 08:46 - Dec 15 with 2160 views | TractorWood |
We had a referendum about the electoral system in 2011. 42% turnout and a landslide loss for AV.
In summary few people care and those that do care disagree.
I agree the planets ruined and it's a massive shame. [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 8:48]
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| This rotten electoral system on 09:11 - Dec 15 with 2098 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
| This rotten electoral system on 08:46 - Dec 15 by TractorWood |
We had a referendum about the electoral system in 2011. 42% turnout and a landslide loss for AV.
In summary few people care and those that do care disagree.
I agree the planets ruined and it's a massive shame. [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 8:48]
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Oh, that's ok then. Let's just ignore the people concerned about the environment, because the ones in power and who vote for self interest don't want the system to change. | |
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| This rotten electoral system on 09:45 - Dec 15 with 2028 views | J2BLUE |
| This rotten electoral system on 08:46 - Dec 15 by TractorWood |
We had a referendum about the electoral system in 2011. 42% turnout and a landslide loss for AV.
In summary few people care and those that do care disagree.
I agree the planets ruined and it's a massive shame. [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 8:48]
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How many times? AV is not PR.
AV is sh1te. PR is much, much better.
Please stop making such a stupid argument. |  |
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| This rotten electoral system on 09:47 - Dec 15 with 2019 views | TractorWood |
| This rotten electoral system on 09:17 - Dec 15 by Swansea_Blue |
That campaign never stood a chance. Both main parties were against reform, especially the sitting govt, and the No side secured substantail funding from big Tory donors, and then wagead dishonest campaing saying it would be too expensivee (it wouldn't have been) we'd be better off giving the money to the NHS instead (sound familiar?).
Remember all the ads like these:
Criticised by the Electoral Commission for being untruthful, but nothing was done of course. |
Because it's not an issue people care about and in reality will just result in endless political deadlock through hung parliaments.
Sorting the environment and having PR can be mutually exclusive. | |
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| This rotten electoral system on 09:48 - Dec 15 with 2019 views | Steve_M |
| This rotten electoral system on 09:17 - Dec 15 by Swansea_Blue |
That campaign never stood a chance. Both main parties were against reform, especially the sitting govt, and the No side secured substantail funding from big Tory donors, and then wagead dishonest campaing saying it would be too expensivee (it wouldn't have been) we'd be better off giving the money to the NHS instead (sound familiar?).
Remember all the ads like these:
Criticised by the Electoral Commission for being untruthful, but nothing was done of course. |
Matthew Elliott and Dominic Cummings. Yep, it was a stitch up which Clegg was naive to fall for. The big opportunity was Blair's in the late 90s. The Jenkins Report was an excellent blueprint for reform. |  |
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| This rotten electoral system on 10:01 - Dec 15 with 1991 views | cbower |
| This rotten electoral system on 09:48 - Dec 15 by Steve_M |
Matthew Elliott and Dominic Cummings. Yep, it was a stitch up which Clegg was naive to fall for. The big opportunity was Blair's in the late 90s. The Jenkins Report was an excellent blueprint for reform. |
Anybody who cannot see how intrinsically undemocratic our electoral system is needs their eyes testing. To argue that it at least produces government with a decent majority is tantamount to saying democracy is a side show. There are variations of PR which function perfectly well elsewhere. The fact only 42% could be bothered to vote in 2011 and rejected probably the poorest system around in AV was more to do with the lack of support for change within the elites who have a vested interest in the perpetuation of a archaic system. That includes the Labour Party. In addition, the 2011 vote does not make our system fair just because we 'voted' for it. |  |
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| This rotten electoral system on 10:11 - Dec 15 with 1971 views | bluejacko |
What’s all this wailing about the voting system? All parties know what it is and to be quite honest if Labour had won we would not be having this blubfest just like the referendum the losing side always moans about the ‘system’. | | | |
| This rotten electoral system on 10:13 - Dec 15 with 1967 views | pointofblue |
| This rotten electoral system on 09:48 - Dec 15 by Steve_M |
Matthew Elliott and Dominic Cummings. Yep, it was a stitch up which Clegg was naive to fall for. The big opportunity was Blair's in the late 90s. The Jenkins Report was an excellent blueprint for reform. |
No party which claims a strong majority via FPTP is going to vote for PR. Democracy will take second place over self-preservation. Blair in 1997 ‘only’ claimed 43.2%; he wasn’t about to sell his colleagues down the river for a change in voting system. In comparison, Johnson secured 43.6% of the vote but won less seats.
The only government in modern times which has had more than 50% of the popular vote is the coalition in 2010 (63.7%). The last single party victor with more than 50% of the vote was Stanley Baldwin’s Conservatives in 1931, though Eden, McMillan and Wilson have all come close since. | |
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| This rotten electoral system on 10:18 - Dec 15 with 1959 views | eireblue |
| This rotten electoral system on 10:11 - Dec 15 by bluejacko |
What’s all this wailing about the voting system? All parties know what it is and to be quite honest if Labour had won we would not be having this blubfest just like the referendum the losing side always moans about the ‘system’. |
The OP was about the disproportionate seats that the Green Party achieved vs the percentage of people that voted for them.
That point would be true whether Labour or Conservative won. |  | | |
| This rotten electoral system on 10:22 - Dec 15 with 1947 views | Darth_Koont |
| This rotten electoral system on 10:11 - Dec 15 by bluejacko |
What’s all this wailing about the voting system? All parties know what it is and to be quite honest if Labour had won we would not be having this blubfest just like the referendum the losing side always moans about the ‘system’. |
As shown by the referendum, binary answers don't help solve complex issues - and certainly don't help people understand them either.
An FPTP system results in two main parties fighting it out, which again doesn't seem a very good way of getting the type of political debate or policy answers a modern country needs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger%27s_law |  |
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| This rotten electoral system on 10:25 - Dec 15 with 1936 views | bournemouthblue |
| This rotten electoral system on 08:46 - Dec 15 by TractorWood |
We had a referendum about the electoral system in 2011. 42% turnout and a landslide loss for AV.
In summary few people care and those that do care disagree.
I agree the planets ruined and it's a massive shame. [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 8:48]
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First of all, AV wasn't proportional representation and was massively underfunded and poorly promoted
There was no clamour at the time for it. The only way something like this is ever going to get through is if you have a coalition government where the Lib Dems have electoral reform as one of their red lines for cooperation
The Tories and SNP are biggest benefactors of the current system with Labour in a solid third so you have a massive uphill battle to make any real change at all |  |
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| This rotten electoral system on 10:28 - Dec 15 with 1926 views | Ryorry |
This, 1,000 times this - have been wanting to say it but couldn't find the words, so thank you!
One huge unanswered question still bugs me though - how can 33K voters in Brighton Pavilion get it so right, see the light, and millions in other constituencies not? Is it because those in BP knew it wouldn't be a wasted vote, plus obv a v. strong candidate there? [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 10:35]
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| This rotten electoral system on 10:31 - Dec 15 with 1918 views | Ryorry |
| This rotten electoral system on 09:48 - Dec 15 by Steve_M |
Matthew Elliott and Dominic Cummings. Yep, it was a stitch up which Clegg was naive to fall for. The big opportunity was Blair's in the late 90s. The Jenkins Report was an excellent blueprint for reform. |
Didn't know Cummings was involved - but no surprise there then! | |
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| This rotten electoral system on 10:54 - Dec 15 with 1879 views | pointofblue |
| This rotten electoral system on 10:28 - Dec 15 by Ryorry |
This, 1,000 times this - have been wanting to say it but couldn't find the words, so thank you!
One huge unanswered question still bugs me though - how can 33K voters in Brighton Pavilion get it so right, see the light, and millions in other constituencies not? Is it because those in BP knew it wouldn't be a wasted vote, plus obv a v. strong candidate there? [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 10:35]
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Caroline Lucas only won the seat by 1252 votes in 2010 by a heavily increased turnout - she’s simply grown her majority ever since. There wasn’t a Liberal Democrat candidate standing this year which would have boosted her further.
Not sure why Brighton Pavilion in particular has taken to the Green Party. I guess a lot of resources were plunged into the seat to begin with coupled with the known name. If they want to push elsewhere they probably need to nominate other people from the party to attend interviews and sit on panels such as Question Time; at the moment the only other person I’ve seen in the public eye is Jonathan Bartley. | |
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| This rotten electoral system on 10:59 - Dec 15 with 1869 views | hampstead_blue |
| This rotten electoral system on 09:11 - Dec 15 by LegendofthePhoenix |
Oh, that's ok then. Let's just ignore the people concerned about the environment, because the ones in power and who vote for self interest don't want the system to change. |
I don't think the environmental point was ignored.
We all agree that we need to change or we a gone.
The environment has dispensed with many before, we no different. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| This rotten electoral system on 11:24 - Dec 15 with 1838 views | Trequartista |
You've cited 3 parties there who only compete regionally, so their national percentage is not a relevant comparison. |  |
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| This rotten electoral system on 11:41 - Dec 15 with 1815 views | m14_blue |
| This rotten electoral system on 10:18 - Dec 15 by eireblue |
The OP was about the disproportionate seats that the Green Party achieved vs the percentage of people that voted for them.
That point would be true whether Labour or Conservative won. |
And add to that, their vote would doubtless have been far, far higher with a proportional voting system.
There must be hundreds of thousands (millions) of people who would consider voting for the smaller parties if they knew their vote would be counted, I’m certainly one of them. | | | |
| This rotten electoral system on 11:53 - Dec 15 with 1789 views | mr_bean |
| This rotten electoral system on 10:54 - Dec 15 by pointofblue |
Caroline Lucas only won the seat by 1252 votes in 2010 by a heavily increased turnout - she’s simply grown her majority ever since. There wasn’t a Liberal Democrat candidate standing this year which would have boosted her further.
Not sure why Brighton Pavilion in particular has taken to the Green Party. I guess a lot of resources were plunged into the seat to begin with coupled with the known name. If they want to push elsewhere they probably need to nominate other people from the party to attend interviews and sit on panels such as Question Time; at the moment the only other person I’ve seen in the public eye is Jonathan Bartley. |
Siân Berry received a decent amount of airtime during the GE campaign too. | | | |
| This rotten electoral system on 12:09 - Dec 15 with 1764 views | reusersfreekicks |
| This rotten electoral system on 09:47 - Dec 15 by TractorWood |
Because it's not an issue people care about and in reality will just result in endless political deadlock through hung parliaments.
Sorting the environment and having PR can be mutually exclusive. |
Why have an electoral system that so distorts results and the value of votes. Put simply first past the post is not democracy at all. If you let people have votes then let the votes count. If you are worried about the outcome of truer democracy then any voting system is not for you. |  | | |
| This rotten electoral system on 12:11 - Dec 15 with 1760 views | reusersfreekicks |
| This rotten electoral system on 10:11 - Dec 15 by bluejacko |
What’s all this wailing about the voting system? All parties know what it is and to be quite honest if Labour had won we would not be having this blubfest just like the referendum the losing side always moans about the ‘system’. |
What incisive intelligent analysis.
I am being ironic just in case that needs pointing out | | | |
| This rotten electoral system on 12:30 - Dec 15 with 1741 views | Darth_Koont |
| This rotten electoral system on 12:09 - Dec 15 by reusersfreekicks |
Why have an electoral system that so distorts results and the value of votes. Put simply first past the post is not democracy at all. If you let people have votes then let the votes count. If you are worried about the outcome of truer democracy then any voting system is not for you. |
Indeed. Shocking that upwards of 60% of votes are effectively ignored because they weren't for a winning candidate in a local election.
And painfully apparent that, with its dumbed-down populism and propaganda media, a ruling party as extreme as our current one should be reined in as part of a coalition. | |
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