| This rotten electoral system 08:37 - Dec 15 with 2788 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
SNP 3.9% of votes - 48 seats
DUP 0.8% of votes - 8 seats
Sinn fein 0.6% of votes - 7 seats
Tories 43.6% of votes - 365 seats
Greens 2.7% of votes - 1 seat
Brexit was a sideshow. The planet is falling to bits, but the one party that puts the environment first cannot get its voice heard because of our biased electoral system. 2.7% of people is quite a lot, considering that nearly all of those people knew it was a wasted vote. If we had proportional representation, not only would the Greens have won about 17 seats based on the %, but would probably have won way more as the vote is no longer wasted. Meanwhile, under a Tory government, we will continue to be misled that the big issue was Brexit. And we will leave a ruined planet for our children and grandchildren. |  |
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| This rotten electoral system on 12:34 - Dec 15 with 585 views | mr_bean |
| This rotten electoral system on 12:30 - Dec 15 by Darth_Koont |
Indeed. Shocking that upwards of 60% of votes are effectively ignored because they weren't for a winning candidate in a local election.
And painfully apparent that, with its dumbed-down populism and propaganda media, a ruling party as extreme as our current one should be reined in as part of a coalition. |
Yep, upwards of 60%, which equates to more than 21.5 million votes.
More than 21.5 million votes ignored! How can that be anything like democratic? |  | | |
| This rotten electoral system on 13:39 - Dec 15 with 561 views | Crawfordsboot |
| This rotten electoral system on 08:45 - Dec 15 by bluejacko |
Well on the last part of your post you had better take that up with the likes of India,China and Brazil! Go and take your points there and see what response you get. |
Actually it is the west contracting out it’s manufacturing to low cost countries that feeds this so let’s not pretend it’s them not us guv! |  | | |
| This rotten electoral system on 13:47 - Dec 15 with 554 views | The_Last_Baron |
| This rotten electoral system on 10:31 - Dec 15 by Ryorry |
Didn't know Cummings was involved - but no surprise there then! |
Cummings is a top, top man. |  |
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| This rotten electoral system on 13:49 - Dec 15 with 552 views | No9 |
When we had the opportunity to vote for a change to the electoral system I voted for- many did not | | | |
| This rotten electoral system on 13:50 - Dec 15 with 551 views | Swansea_Blue |
| This rotten electoral system on 09:48 - Dec 15 by Steve_M |
Matthew Elliott and Dominic Cummings. Yep, it was a stitch up which Clegg was naive to fall for. The big opportunity was Blair's in the late 90s. The Jenkins Report was an excellent blueprint for reform. |
It was was it? I hadn’t realised, although the parallels in style are clear. Interesting thanks.
I wasn’t really aware of the findings of the Jenkins report, so had a quick read up this morning. Certainly sounds like a missed opportunity with Labour shying away from the recommendations. But again that didn’t go far enough. It seems we’re too fixated with the stability of Parliament to consider PR properly, which is understandable given how it’s always worked (even the layout is adversarial, whereas a lot of parliaments have circular chambers). |  |
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| This rotten electoral system on 13:52 - Dec 15 with 548 views | Pinewoodblue |
If proportional representation is every introduced it will be on a regional, or County basis so a party achieving less than 3% nationally isn’t likely to have many more MPs than currently.
The only way of making elected representatives accountable to the electorate.
PR is just as likely to lead to splintering of the two major parties into smaller groupings. |  |
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| This rotten electoral system on 14:33 - Dec 15 with 521 views | TractorWood |
| This rotten electoral system on 12:09 - Dec 15 by reusersfreekicks |
Why have an electoral system that so distorts results and the value of votes. Put simply first past the post is not democracy at all. If you let people have votes then let the votes count. If you are worried about the outcome of truer democracy then any voting system is not for you. |
Not sure why people are taking the democratic high ground. There was a totally democratic referendum that the lib dems had been campaigning for decades and no one turned up. Those who did rejected it.
What's your proposal to move PR forward instead of ignoring the above and criticising the current system?
I agree FPTP is undemocratic and largely pointless in most seats. However, holistically it delivers decisive outcomes and mandates political change based on a long-standing system. |  |
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| This rotten electoral system on 14:37 - Dec 15 with 519 views | hampstead_blue |
| This rotten electoral system on 10:54 - Dec 15 by pointofblue |
Caroline Lucas only won the seat by 1252 votes in 2010 by a heavily increased turnout - she’s simply grown her majority ever since. There wasn’t a Liberal Democrat candidate standing this year which would have boosted her further.
Not sure why Brighton Pavilion in particular has taken to the Green Party. I guess a lot of resources were plunged into the seat to begin with coupled with the known name. If they want to push elsewhere they probably need to nominate other people from the party to attend interviews and sit on panels such as Question Time; at the moment the only other person I’ve seen in the public eye is Jonathan Bartley. |
I lived there between 2003-06.
They have had good support at council level, I voted for them in the Local Gov elections.
There were loads of great local environmental initiatives back then.
Lucas is an extension of that I feel. Not a bad thing to have her in the HoP. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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| This rotten electoral system on 14:38 - Dec 15 with 518 views | TractorWood |
| This rotten electoral system on 09:45 - Dec 15 by J2BLUE |
How many times? AV is not PR.
AV is sh1te. PR is much, much better.
Please stop making such a stupid argument. |
It wasn't really an argument, more irrefutable fact based on precedent.
What evidence do you have to support the public being in favour of electoral reform? [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 14:40]
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| This rotten electoral system on 14:41 - Dec 15 with 512 views | J2BLUE |
| This rotten electoral system on 14:38 - Dec 15 by TractorWood |
It wasn't really an argument, more irrefutable fact based on precedent.
What evidence do you have to support the public being in favour of electoral reform? [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 14:40]
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To dismiss PR because people rejected AV is stupid. PR was always more popular and has got a lot of publicity recently. Once people who don't know what it is learn that it will make their vote count for exactly what they want it to count for it will really take off. Especially with the current climate change focus.
This is something we won't be getting for at least 5 years though. No way the self serving Tories will give up the golden goose. |  |
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| This rotten electoral system on 14:43 - Dec 15 with 509 views | Oxford_Blue |
We had a referendum on AV (appreciate not PR) not that long ago. It isn’t going to change.
It creates uncertainty, coalitions and lack of accountability because the numbers rarely change enough.
Yet again, remainers are complaining about the rules of the game when they lost. They weren’t complaining when they thought they had the chance to win.
As for green issues, they are not mutually exclusive from dealing with Brexit and Brexit clearly isn’t a sideshow. [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 14:45]
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| This rotten electoral system on 14:47 - Dec 15 with 504 views | TractorWood |
| This rotten electoral system on 14:41 - Dec 15 by J2BLUE |
To dismiss PR because people rejected AV is stupid. PR was always more popular and has got a lot of publicity recently. Once people who don't know what it is learn that it will make their vote count for exactly what they want it to count for it will really take off. Especially with the current climate change focus.
This is something we won't be getting for at least 5 years though. No way the self serving Tories will give up the golden goose. |
It stands to reason that more than 6m people would have voted for electoral reform if it was something there was strong appetite for.
I'm not saying PR is necessarily not the answer I'm just saying it's not something the wider public care about. Nick Clegg had a once in a generation opportunity to fix electoral reform and the public told him to do one.
Those who benefit from the system will never allow it to be tabled and those who don't bemoan it but have no leverage. As has and will always be the case. It's like getting angry at the moon. [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 14:48]
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| This rotten electoral system on 16:40 - Dec 15 with 477 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
| This rotten electoral system on 10:28 - Dec 15 by Ryorry |
This, 1,000 times this - have been wanting to say it but couldn't find the words, so thank you!
One huge unanswered question still bugs me though - how can 33K voters in Brighton Pavilion get it so right, see the light, and millions in other constituencies not? Is it because those in BP knew it wouldn't be a wasted vote, plus obv a v. strong candidate there? [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 10:35]
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It's got to be that in Brighton Pavillion, the electorate know it isn't a wasted vote. It just makes you wonder how many votes the minority parties would get if voters knew every vote would count. And I think the SNP result shows us what that could mean. We would have a very different political landscape, and far more attention to so-called minority issues, such as the environment, than the diversionary agendas of the main parties. | |
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| This rotten electoral system on 16:42 - Dec 15 with 470 views | J2BLUE |
| This rotten electoral system on 14:47 - Dec 15 by TractorWood |
It stands to reason that more than 6m people would have voted for electoral reform if it was something there was strong appetite for.
I'm not saying PR is necessarily not the answer I'm just saying it's not something the wider public care about. Nick Clegg had a once in a generation opportunity to fix electoral reform and the public told him to do one.
Those who benefit from the system will never allow it to be tabled and those who don't bemoan it but have no leverage. As has and will always be the case. It's like getting angry at the moon. [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 14:48]
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I can't believe you aren't getting it. Why would people bother for something like AV? If you give people two crap options then it's not surprising there isn't much interest.
The AV vote seems to have achieved exactly what they wanted with some of you. | |
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| This rotten electoral system on 17:02 - Dec 15 with 460 views | clive_baker |
Yeah it's a stupid system and it always seems to be questioned post an election, but the incumbent government has no incentive to change it so I wouldn't hold your breath.
I think you make a very good point about voting intent, should it change. |  |
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| This rotten electoral system on 17:19 - Dec 15 with 455 views | SonOfSpock |
Unfortunately FPTP has always favoured the Tory Labour duopoly as neither want to change the system. To instigate change it will require a concerted effort to vote for parties supporting PR such as as the SDP. |  | | |
| This rotten electoral system on 17:25 - Dec 15 with 440 views | Ryorry |
| This rotten electoral system on 13:47 - Dec 15 by The_Last_Baron |
Cummings is a top, top man. |
A top, top A-hole, certainly. |  |
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| This rotten electoral system on 20:56 - Dec 15 with 391 views | Swansea_Blue |
| This rotten electoral system on 14:41 - Dec 15 by J2BLUE |
To dismiss PR because people rejected AV is stupid. PR was always more popular and has got a lot of publicity recently. Once people who don't know what it is learn that it will make their vote count for exactly what they want it to count for it will really take off. Especially with the current climate change focus.
This is something we won't be getting for at least 5 years though. No way the self serving Tories will give up the golden goose. |
He might have a point. I can easily see how people would be against it because their side won using FPTP. As stupid as that sounds. | |
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