| Red Len on Pienaar this morning. 10:57 - Dec 15 with 756 views | hampstead_blue |
He clearly has a firm grip on the party.
The whole interview was focused around his belief that Labour had radically changed course and would stay on that path.
When challenged he hit the denial/stubborn belief stance of Brexit was the cause, however he did lift a lid a touch when he mentioned that JC and JM threw too much at the wall. The core message was lost he thought.
How many long hot washes before the party is ready? |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Red Len on Pienaar this morning. on 11:44 - Dec 15 with 674 views | Basuco |
As I said on Friday, he needs to look back at how well Michael Foot and Neil Kinnock did against Margaret Thatcher, Tony Blair showed Labour not only how to win an election but remained a Labour Prime Minister for 13 years. If Labour want to ensure they remain as a non credible opposition then yes carry on down the same path. |  | | |
| Red Len on Pienaar this morning. on 11:52 - Dec 15 with 660 views | Darth_Koont |
Why does the Labour Party have to come to the centre when the Tories went further to the right and won?
If we're saying that the battleground in the UK is between the centre and the right then I agree. The true centre in the UK is to the right and fully reflecting the media balance. But that increases the need to promote genuine social democracy and take ourselves off the path we're going down with right-wing populism, xenophobia and Brexit.
Labour have got 5 years to get that message across, while we see the effects of this government play out. The Libdems can fight in a false centre and see how far that actually gets them. [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 11:53]
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| Red Len on Pienaar this morning. on 12:00 - Dec 15 with 637 views | Bluefish |
| Red Len on Pienaar this morning. on 11:52 - Dec 15 by Darth_Koont |
Why does the Labour Party have to come to the centre when the Tories went further to the right and won?
If we're saying that the battleground in the UK is between the centre and the right then I agree. The true centre in the UK is to the right and fully reflecting the media balance. But that increases the need to promote genuine social democracy and take ourselves off the path we're going down with right-wing populism, xenophobia and Brexit.
Labour have got 5 years to get that message across, while we see the effects of this government play out. The Libdems can fight in a false centre and see how far that actually gets them. [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 11:53]
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They dont have to but they also will never hold power ever again. They took for granted Midland and northern towns as a given because they closed some mines decades ago. Now that has been broken by new generations they may never regain power in those towns. Labour need to find a way to be credible and their ridiculous offers of free stuff and simply buying our companies was poor |  |
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| Red Len on Pienaar this morning. on 12:09 - Dec 15 with 623 views | jimmyvet |
| Red Len on Pienaar this morning. on 11:52 - Dec 15 by Darth_Koont |
Why does the Labour Party have to come to the centre when the Tories went further to the right and won?
If we're saying that the battleground in the UK is between the centre and the right then I agree. The true centre in the UK is to the right and fully reflecting the media balance. But that increases the need to promote genuine social democracy and take ourselves off the path we're going down with right-wing populism, xenophobia and Brexit.
Labour have got 5 years to get that message across, while we see the effects of this government play out. The Libdems can fight in a false centre and see how far that actually gets them. [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 11:53]
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They need to come to the centre so we have a viable electable opposition to keep holding this government to account. We don’t need an ideological student union group who will achieve nothing other than in their own deluded heads.
Seriously DK Corbyn saying they won the argument that their manifesto was hugely popular ...the delusion of this bunch of hard left current Labour leadership is laughable. They won nothing and got hammered yet them and their supporters actually believe they did win. |  | | |
| Red Len on Pienaar this morning. on 12:18 - Dec 15 with 614 views | Darth_Koont |
| Red Len on Pienaar this morning. on 12:00 - Dec 15 by Bluefish |
They dont have to but they also will never hold power ever again. They took for granted Midland and northern towns as a given because they closed some mines decades ago. Now that has been broken by new generations they may never regain power in those towns. Labour need to find a way to be credible and their ridiculous offers of free stuff and simply buying our companies was poor |
I think it was a clear investment in our long-term future rather than the short-termism of letting free market forces shape society. Or the short-termism of the austerity programme that just pushes social problems further down the road, while causing unnecessary suffering and even deaths.
Yes, it's a different ideology but one more based in the empirical evidence of the happier, healthier and more productive societies in Europe. Why keep ignoring that and doubling down with a hard Brexit? The penny has to drop at some stage - but it certainly won't if no-one's promoting the alternative. | |
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| Red Len on Pienaar this morning. on 12:20 - Dec 15 with 609 views | Darth_Koont |
| Red Len on Pienaar this morning. on 12:09 - Dec 15 by jimmyvet |
They need to come to the centre so we have a viable electable opposition to keep holding this government to account. We don’t need an ideological student union group who will achieve nothing other than in their own deluded heads.
Seriously DK Corbyn saying they won the argument that their manifesto was hugely popular ...the delusion of this bunch of hard left current Labour leadership is laughable. They won nothing and got hammered yet them and their supporters actually believe they did win. |
See above.
Labour has 5 years to get this message across. And the Tories have 5 years to show the country hasn't made a colossal mistake. | |
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| Red Len on Pienaar this morning. on 12:45 - Dec 15 with 570 views | hampstead_blue |
| Red Len on Pienaar this morning. on 12:18 - Dec 15 by Darth_Koont |
I think it was a clear investment in our long-term future rather than the short-termism of letting free market forces shape society. Or the short-termism of the austerity programme that just pushes social problems further down the road, while causing unnecessary suffering and even deaths.
Yes, it's a different ideology but one more based in the empirical evidence of the happier, healthier and more productive societies in Europe. Why keep ignoring that and doubling down with a hard Brexit? The penny has to drop at some stage - but it certainly won't if no-one's promoting the alternative. |
I think that this election was clearly radical but it did bring out some good ideas.
The idea of nationalisation is too far, but what is the best middle ground? 25% share ownership? Maybe.
JC and McCluskey are going to do all in their gift to keep it all facing way left, that's clear.
What BJ has a chance to do, and I think he could, is use this next 5 years to do a lot more for the working classes and the North/Midlands.
I'd love to see some of the less bonkers ideas softened and brought into play but i'm not going to.
Labur does need to fresh pot of tea rather than piling more into the pot they've got...That's properly stewed now.....
(Less wicked humour I think there)....  | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Red Len on Pienaar this morning. on 12:50 - Dec 15 with 561 views | WD19 |
| Red Len on Pienaar this morning. on 12:20 - Dec 15 by Darth_Koont |
See above.
Labour has 5 years to get this message across. And the Tories have 5 years to show the country hasn't made a colossal mistake. |
In a world that is cyclical sticking to your guns and claiming you are ‘ahead of your time’ is an argument that will always be proved right.....trouble is it may take 20, 30, 50, 100 years.
In the meantime we have limited meaningful opposition. As someone said yesterday, a Labour Party that is primarily hoping the country goes down the tubes to enhance their chances in future is not a good look. |  | | |
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| Red Len on Pienaar this morning. on 12:54 - Dec 15 with 555 views | Trequartista |
| Red Len on Pienaar this morning. on 11:52 - Dec 15 by Darth_Koont |
Why does the Labour Party have to come to the centre when the Tories went further to the right and won?
If we're saying that the battleground in the UK is between the centre and the right then I agree. The true centre in the UK is to the right and fully reflecting the media balance. But that increases the need to promote genuine social democracy and take ourselves off the path we're going down with right-wing populism, xenophobia and Brexit.
Labour have got 5 years to get that message across, while we see the effects of this government play out. The Libdems can fight in a false centre and see how far that actually gets them. [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 11:53]
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It's not all about centre-left and far-left. Gordon Brown suffered defeat partly because of the economic crash being pinned on the Government, but the malaise with New Labour had set in years before with people being sick of being told how to think by the state. The same issue is still present with a party that has moved further to the left. |  |
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| Red Len on Pienaar this morning. on 13:00 - Dec 15 with 534 views | Darth_Koont |
| Red Len on Pienaar this morning. on 12:54 - Dec 15 by Trequartista |
It's not all about centre-left and far-left. Gordon Brown suffered defeat partly because of the economic crash being pinned on the Government, but the malaise with New Labour had set in years before with people being sick of being told how to think by the state. The same issue is still present with a party that has moved further to the left. |
"the malaise with New Labour had set in years before with people being sick of being told how to think by the state."
Depends what papers you were reading I suppose. When did that actually ever happen? | |
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| Red Len on Pienaar this morning. on 13:04 - Dec 15 with 523 views | Darth_Koont |
| Red Len on Pienaar this morning. on 12:50 - Dec 15 by WD19 |
In a world that is cyclical sticking to your guns and claiming you are ‘ahead of your time’ is an argument that will always be proved right.....trouble is it may take 20, 30, 50, 100 years.
In the meantime we have limited meaningful opposition. As someone said yesterday, a Labour Party that is primarily hoping the country goes down the tubes to enhance their chances in future is not a good look. |
No-one wants the country to go down the tubes - this affects real people. But if it does, it needs to be a lesson we learn from for the sake of those real people. | |
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| Red Len on Pienaar this morning. on 13:08 - Dec 15 with 513 views | Trequartista |
| Red Len on Pienaar this morning. on 13:00 - Dec 15 by Darth_Koont |
"the malaise with New Labour had set in years before with people being sick of being told how to think by the state."
Depends what papers you were reading I suppose. When did that actually ever happen? |
It's my opinion of what happened at the time, what is fact is that in the 2005 election, Labour got 35% of the vote (1% more than Thursday?). A win is a win, fair enough, but this was before the crash and before the Iraq War backlash had properly killed Blair, so something was happening. | |
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