| What is the end game for Evans? 21:16 - Dec 16 with 2785 views | tractorboy1978 |
I've posed this question many times, but today seems a good time to raise it again.
With a balance owing to him of approaching £100m he seems to have about reached his limit in terms of funding. It's going to be a 1/2 decent sales per summer approach to ensure that debt remains fairly stable and the club can operate virtually neutrally cash flow wise. That fits in with the approach of cultivating academy players to reduce signings needed and to bring in cash from future sales.
All perhaps well and good and not a bad model for operating but my concern is we are going to see the heart ripped out of the side every summer for the foreseeable future. People clinging onto us holding onto Wolfy and Downes unless huge (i've heard the likes of £10m bandied about) offers come in might be sadly disappointed.
We are getting further and further away from the Premier League every season. And with that ME is getting further and further away from recouping his money. When does he cut his losses?
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| What is the end game for Evans? on 21:22 - Dec 16 with 2335 views | Chrisd |
I’d love to be a fly on the wall whilst ME discusses that very point with his advisors. | |
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| What is the end game for Evans? on 21:45 - Dec 16 with 2273 views | ITFC_Forever |
Fluke a promotion to the Prem.
Unfortunately, there’s about as much chance of that as me sleeping with Emma Bunton.
The game and the stake has moved on since he bought us... he’s now the player at the table down to his last chips and paying the minimum he can to stay in the game.
He’s stuck with us and we’re stuck with him. |  |
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| What is the end game for Evans? on 21:47 - Dec 16 with 2258 views | Swansea_Blue |
The reality - probably offload us for a humungous great big loss. I can't see any other scenario becasue (a) we're so off the pace financially and (b) he doesn't seem able to find us a manager who can get a team with our resources challenging (theoretically it's possible of course, but it would have to be something really special - i.e.not the disjointed stuff thats' served up now). |  |
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| What is the end game for Evans? on 22:08 - Dec 16 with 2169 views | Swansea_Blue |
| What is the end game for Evans? on 21:45 - Dec 16 by ITFC_Forever |
Fluke a promotion to the Prem.
Unfortunately, there’s about as much chance of that as me sleeping with Emma Bunton.
The game and the stake has moved on since he bought us... he’s now the player at the table down to his last chips and paying the minimum he can to stay in the game.
He’s stuck with us and we’re stuck with him. |
Still as hot as hell even after all these years. (Her, not you) | |
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| What is the end game for Evans? on 22:10 - Dec 16 with 2163 views | pointofblue |
That's why I'm thinking Woolfenden and, in particular, Downes will leave in the summer whether we go up or not. To keep the bank balance ticking over. | |
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| What is the end game for Evans? on 22:10 - Dec 16 with 2164 views | Trequartista |
Non-league football? |  |
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| What is the end game for Evans? on 22:16 - Dec 16 with 2140 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
Cut and paste for c.60 football league clubs... probably more. |  |
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| What is the end game for Evans? on 22:21 - Dec 16 with 2119 views | Bluefish |
On those accounts he has funded another 3 million and it will be more than that last season and this season |  |
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| What is the end game for Evans? on 22:31 - Dec 16 with 2080 views | tractorboy1978 |
| What is the end game for Evans? on 22:21 - Dec 16 by Bluefish |
On those accounts he has funded another 3 million and it will be more than that last season and this season |
No he hasn't. He's put in another £750k (net) hence the movement in loan value. | | | |
| What is the end game for Evans? on 22:32 - Dec 16 with 2068 views | Bluefish |
| What is the end game for Evans? on 22:31 - Dec 16 by tractorboy1978 |
No he hasn't. He's put in another £750k (net) hence the movement in loan value. |
What? | |
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| What is the end game for Evans? on 22:37 - Dec 16 with 2063 views | tractorboy1978 |
| What is the end game for Evans? on 22:32 - Dec 16 by Bluefish |
What? |
The loan balance is up £750k. His net investment in the club has increased by £750k. | | | |
| What is the end game for Evans? on 22:39 - Dec 16 with 2055 views | Bluefish |
| What is the end game for Evans? on 22:37 - Dec 16 by tractorboy1978 |
The loan balance is up £750k. His net investment in the club has increased by £750k. |
I've not read the full details of tonight and I'm not an accountant but where is the rest of the loss being covered then? Presumably the loan is in addition to the loss? | |
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| What is the end game for Evans? on 22:44 - Dec 16 with 2042 views | Sporall |
| What is the end game for Evans? on 22:10 - Dec 16 by Trequartista |
Non-league football? |
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| What is the end game for Evans? on 22:46 - Dec 16 with 2041 views | Fixed_It |
| What is the end game for Evans? on 22:10 - Dec 16 by pointofblue |
That's why I'm thinking Woolfenden and, in particular, Downes will leave in the summer whether we go up or not. To keep the bank balance ticking over. |
Important to note - and I think I am right in this - that the sell-on fees we got for Webster etc are not in this year's accounts, and will help soften the blow for next year. As will the improved attendances. If we are promoted I don't think we will sell Wolfie or Downes. Unless we get offers too good to turn down of course. |  |
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| What is the end game for Evans? on 22:53 - Dec 16 with 2009 views | tractorboy1978 |
| What is the end game for Evans? on 22:39 - Dec 16 by Bluefish |
I've not read the full details of tonight and I'm not an accountant but where is the rest of the loss being covered then? Presumably the loan is in addition to the loss? |
Full accounts are not yet available but looking at last years as a guide I would imagine you have approx £2m in depreciation/amortisation of player contracts within that loss which are not being "funded" - they are accounting adjustments, no physical cash has left the club.
It's timing of cash flows at the end of the day. Evans has covered a £750k short fall in cash to meet our liabilities during the year. What those accounts do show is that without the income from sales of players that figure would have needed to be considerably higher. | | | |
| What is the end game for Evans? on 23:04 - Dec 16 with 1967 views | Radlett_blue |
Last year, we had the 18th lowest wage bill in the Championship and still lost £10 MILLION on an operating basis. No wonder Evans has been a seller of our better players. Even if he was willing to keep losing £10m a year, we would still have probably been no better than mid table.
Evans might be willing to sell Town as a loss, but I think he's missed the boat on that one with us in the 3rd tier. Even if he finds a buyer, it would need to be one with huge pockets for us even to be competitive in the Championship.
This is a result of the EFL losing its bottle on FFP, at the request of a few rich owners like Mel Morris, who were desperate to throw money at the possibility of reaching the Premier League. |  |
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| What is the end game for Evans? on 06:54 - Dec 17 with 1690 views | Chrisd |
| What is the end game for Evans? on 23:04 - Dec 16 by Radlett_blue |
Last year, we had the 18th lowest wage bill in the Championship and still lost £10 MILLION on an operating basis. No wonder Evans has been a seller of our better players. Even if he was willing to keep losing £10m a year, we would still have probably been no better than mid table.
Evans might be willing to sell Town as a loss, but I think he's missed the boat on that one with us in the 3rd tier. Even if he finds a buyer, it would need to be one with huge pockets for us even to be competitive in the Championship.
This is a result of the EFL losing its bottle on FFP, at the request of a few rich owners like Mel Morris, who were desperate to throw money at the possibility of reaching the Premier League. |
Honestly, unless you own Manchester United or Liverpool etc.. why would you want to a football club owner? Just seems an utterly pointless investment. | |
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| What is the end game for Evans? on 06:57 - Dec 17 with 1691 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| What is the end game for Evans? on 22:53 - Dec 16 by tractorboy1978 |
Full accounts are not yet available but looking at last years as a guide I would imagine you have approx £2m in depreciation/amortisation of player contracts within that loss which are not being "funded" - they are accounting adjustments, no physical cash has left the club.
It's timing of cash flows at the end of the day. Evans has covered a £750k short fall in cash to meet our liabilities during the year. What those accounts do show is that without the income from sales of players that figure would have needed to be considerably higher. |
I’ve just woken up so might be being thick here - but isn’t amortisation of transfer fees putting fees that have previously been paid but not included in previous accounts on the balance sheet (eg. £750k signing on 3 year contract is put on at £250k each year)? So very much money Evans has spent |  |
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| What is the end game for Evans? on 07:00 - Dec 17 with 1684 views | hampstead_blue |
I mentioned in a post yesterday that I think it maybe to book losses to offset tax.
Other than that he probably took in on as a shortish term high risk project to get into the Prem.
Now it maybe to offset profits.
Not sure. We'll never know unless anyone has any "Def info" |  |
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Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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| What is the end game for Evans? on 08:27 - Dec 17 with 1471 views | tractorboy1978 |
| What is the end game for Evans? on 06:57 - Dec 17 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
I’ve just woken up so might be being thick here - but isn’t amortisation of transfer fees putting fees that have previously been paid but not included in previous accounts on the balance sheet (eg. £750k signing on 3 year contract is put on at £250k each year)? So very much money Evans has spent |
No - the full transfer fee is capitalised as an asset and amortised (released) to the P&L account over the length of the contract. | | | |
| What is the end game for Evans? on 08:30 - Dec 17 with 1461 views | Bluefish |
| What is the end game for Evans? on 08:27 - Dec 17 by tractorboy1978 |
No - the full transfer fee is capitalised as an asset and amortised (released) to the P&L account over the length of the contract. |
You are arguing both points here? It has to have been spent and it is accounting as to where it sits | |
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| What is the end game for Evans? on 08:51 - Dec 17 with 1434 views | tractorboy1978 |
| What is the end game for Evans? on 08:30 - Dec 17 by Bluefish |
You are arguing both points here? It has to have been spent and it is accounting as to where it sits |
Not necessarily. Future guaranteed transfer payments will be capitalised with a liability recognised - the cash hasn’t left the club yet.
Like I said previously, it’s all about cash flow timing. The movement in the loan account is the real measure not the loss figure. | | | |
| What is the end game for Evans? on 08:54 - Dec 17 with 1429 views | Bluefish |
| What is the end game for Evans? on 08:51 - Dec 17 by tractorboy1978 |
Not necessarily. Future guaranteed transfer payments will be capitalised with a liability recognised - the cash hasn’t left the club yet.
Like I said previously, it’s all about cash flow timing. The movement in the loan account is the real measure not the loss figure. |
2 different points though the original point was about paying 750 up front but spreading through 3 years of p and l | |
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| What is the end game for Evans? on 09:13 - Dec 17 with 1393 views | Guthrum |
| What is the end game for Evans? on 07:00 - Dec 17 by hampstead_blue |
I mentioned in a post yesterday that I think it maybe to book losses to offset tax.
Other than that he probably took in on as a shortish term high risk project to get into the Prem.
Now it maybe to offset profits.
Not sure. We'll never know unless anyone has any "Def info" |
Expensive way to offset tax, as he'd be losing about five times however much he saved. |  |
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| What is the end game for Evans? on 09:48 - Dec 17 with 1326 views | chicoazul |
| What is the end game for Evans? on 06:54 - Dec 17 by Chrisd |
Honestly, unless you own Manchester United or Liverpool etc.. why would you want to a football club owner? Just seems an utterly pointless investment. |
Football isn't an investment, it's a rich man's hobby. |  |
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