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Controversal Thought..... 15:58 - Dec 18 with 3453 viewsIP12

I've just watched the highlights of Fallon Sherrock's win at the PDC Darts. How long will it be before female footballers are playing in league teams. I appreciate the argument about physical strength but long, long ago one of ITFC's most accurate passers of a ball would not live with the current levels of fitness. Jimmy Leadbetter ('Sticks' to many)struggled run BUT could pass a ball over 40 or 50 yards and land it on a sixpence (sorry about the old money). He was the principal architect of Crawford & Phillips goals through that ability. (Awaits arrival of down arrows)
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Controversal Thought..... on 16:01 - Dec 18 with 2782 viewsMarshalls_Mullet

Cant see it happening anytime soon.

Fallon Sherrock is a runner up in the womens tournaments, and beat a less experienced younger competitor in the second round of the mens competition.

Good to see, but not that ground breaking yet.

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Controversal Thought..... on 16:04 - Dec 18 with 2771 viewsWarkTheWarkITFC

In 10 years or so I would imagine you'll have women playing semi-professionally in teams with men. Not many but the way gender fluidity is going, I think it's inevitable that over the next 10-20 years every sport will effectively be open to all.

That creates an entirely separate set of issues as I am sure that won't be without incident in terms of shared spaces, sexism, physical altercations and so on, but I can't see any way that sport can continue to remain mens and womens given that there are increasing numbers of people born as men who identify as women and vice versa and the physical advantages a woman born as a man may have in individual sports if competing with other women born women.

Very complex situation which will take decades to find its place and there will be all sorts of issues whilst it does.

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Controversal Thought..... on 16:13 - Dec 18 with 2740 viewsRadlett_blue

Controversal Thought..... on 16:01 - Dec 18 by Marshalls_Mullet

Cant see it happening anytime soon.

Fallon Sherrock is a runner up in the womens tournaments, and beat a less experienced younger competitor in the second round of the mens competition.

Good to see, but not that ground breaking yet.


Darts isn't a game where size & strength give much advantage, although I guess height & reach gives you some edge. Football is and that's the main reason why the England Ladies team would probably lose to the U16s.
In most sports, the number of very good players is directly related to the size of the pool of people who play the sport regularly and want to be competitive. I'd guess the number of women who try to play darts seriously is way smaller than the number of men, so ergo the standard is much lower.

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Controversal Thought..... on 16:16 - Dec 18 with 2729 viewsMarshalls_Mullet

Controversal Thought..... on 16:13 - Dec 18 by Radlett_blue

Darts isn't a game where size & strength give much advantage, although I guess height & reach gives you some edge. Football is and that's the main reason why the England Ladies team would probably lose to the U16s.
In most sports, the number of very good players is directly related to the size of the pool of people who play the sport regularly and want to be competitive. I'd guess the number of women who try to play darts seriously is way smaller than the number of men, so ergo the standard is much lower.


I suspect the England ladies would lose to ITFC U16's.

Its only a couple of years ago that the US womens side lost to Dallas U15's.

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Controversal Thought..... on 16:27 - Dec 18 with 2697 viewsJ2BLUE

Controversal Thought..... on 16:04 - Dec 18 by WarkTheWarkITFC

In 10 years or so I would imagine you'll have women playing semi-professionally in teams with men. Not many but the way gender fluidity is going, I think it's inevitable that over the next 10-20 years every sport will effectively be open to all.

That creates an entirely separate set of issues as I am sure that won't be without incident in terms of shared spaces, sexism, physical altercations and so on, but I can't see any way that sport can continue to remain mens and womens given that there are increasing numbers of people born as men who identify as women and vice versa and the physical advantages a woman born as a man may have in individual sports if competing with other women born women.

Very complex situation which will take decades to find its place and there will be all sorts of issues whilst it does.


I would be amazed if female players were playing in the men's game at professional level within 30 years. I just can't see it happening.

It's an issue of biology not ideology.

Truly impaired.
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Controversal Thought..... on 16:38 - Dec 18 with 2642 viewshomer_123

Controversal Thought..... on 16:27 - Dec 18 by J2BLUE

I would be amazed if female players were playing in the men's game at professional level within 30 years. I just can't see it happening.

It's an issue of biology not ideology.


It's not an 'issue' with biology at all. It's how we perceive said differences in biology.

Add to that how the game might change and adapt. Brazil 30 years ago moved their games from the likes of skillful players like Socrates to a more workman (though not utterly unskillful) like player such as Dunga and their general move to fitness and 'engine' - what's to say the game won't adapt differently where such physical traits become less important in the game and therefore our perceived issues with biology become less important.

Maybe football should change to simply include females and lead the way? Maybe it should adapt it's rules and how the game is played to allow a playing field where women and men can play together?

Ade Akinbiyi couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo...
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Controversal Thought..... on 16:40 - Dec 18 with 2640 viewsRadlett_blue

Controversal Thought..... on 16:38 - Dec 18 by homer_123

It's not an 'issue' with biology at all. It's how we perceive said differences in biology.

Add to that how the game might change and adapt. Brazil 30 years ago moved their games from the likes of skillful players like Socrates to a more workman (though not utterly unskillful) like player such as Dunga and their general move to fitness and 'engine' - what's to say the game won't adapt differently where such physical traits become less important in the game and therefore our perceived issues with biology become less important.

Maybe football should change to simply include females and lead the way? Maybe it should adapt it's rules and how the game is played to allow a playing field where women and men can play together?


Let's do this with all sports and then let women's sport disappear from the map. That would be the probable result.

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Controversal Thought..... on 16:44 - Dec 18 with 2628 viewshomer_123

Controversal Thought..... on 16:40 - Dec 18 by Radlett_blue

Let's do this with all sports and then let women's sport disappear from the map. That would be the probable result.


I think that is a slight overreaction Radders mate.

Ade Akinbiyi couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo...
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Controversal Thought..... on 16:46 - Dec 18 with 2626 viewsFtnfwest

Wouldn't have a problem with that as long as men can then play in the women's game to even it up
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Controversal Thought..... on 16:55 - Dec 18 with 2598 viewsWarkTheWarkITFC

Controversal Thought..... on 16:27 - Dec 18 by J2BLUE

I would be amazed if female players were playing in the men's game at professional level within 30 years. I just can't see it happening.

It's an issue of biology not ideology.


What is Coutinho? 5'5? He can play for Liverpool, Barcelona and Bayern Munich.

Suggesting there won't be a technical gifted 5'9 woman who is capable of playing for Stevenage in the next 30 years is incredibly patronising.

As gender fluidity evolves and women become, even less in the eyes of the last few of society, things that men are supposed to protect who are not equal, then sport will evolve too.

There are reasons why this will happen faster in darts and snooker and sports where physical attributes are less advantageous, but there are clearly women now like Rapinoe who could easily play at a lower level in England.

She may not win many headers and may be easily dispossessed, but no more so than Ashley Young when he broke through at Watford. He was about 9st and dispossessed by a gust of wind.

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Controversal Thought..... on 17:03 - Dec 18 with 2586 viewsJ2BLUE

Controversal Thought..... on 16:55 - Dec 18 by WarkTheWarkITFC

What is Coutinho? 5'5? He can play for Liverpool, Barcelona and Bayern Munich.

Suggesting there won't be a technical gifted 5'9 woman who is capable of playing for Stevenage in the next 30 years is incredibly patronising.

As gender fluidity evolves and women become, even less in the eyes of the last few of society, things that men are supposed to protect who are not equal, then sport will evolve too.

There are reasons why this will happen faster in darts and snooker and sports where physical attributes are less advantageous, but there are clearly women now like Rapinoe who could easily play at a lower level in England.

She may not win many headers and may be easily dispossessed, but no more so than Ashley Young when he broke through at Watford. He was about 9st and dispossessed by a gust of wind.


'Suggesting there won't be a technical gifted 5'9 woman who is capable of playing for Stevenage in the next 30 years is incredibly patronising.'


I didn't say that was the only issue. Have you considered what happens when a 6 ft 4 brick sh1thouse centre back goes in hard and snaps her leg in two?

Again, gender fluidity is ideological not biological. The difference in body types is very real. A woman could, of course, change her body composition to be similar to a man's and if she had the height it would be one issue resolved. There are all sorts of issues with biological differences which would probably make insuring players a nightmare.

I just can't see it happening. Sorry if that opinion is unpopular with anyone. It's only one man's view.

Truly impaired.
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Controversal Thought..... on 17:07 - Dec 18 with 2577 viewsWarkTheWarkITFC

Controversal Thought..... on 17:03 - Dec 18 by J2BLUE

'Suggesting there won't be a technical gifted 5'9 woman who is capable of playing for Stevenage in the next 30 years is incredibly patronising.'


I didn't say that was the only issue. Have you considered what happens when a 6 ft 4 brick sh1thouse centre back goes in hard and snaps her leg in two?

Again, gender fluidity is ideological not biological. The difference in body types is very real. A woman could, of course, change her body composition to be similar to a man's and if she had the height it would be one issue resolved. There are all sorts of issues with biological differences which would probably make insuring players a nightmare.

I just can't see it happening. Sorry if that opinion is unpopular with anyone. It's only one man's view.


So what's the difference between a 5'9 woman getting smashed by a 6'5 centre back and the same happening to a 5'6 bloke?

I'm old fashioned. I want to open doors for women, buy them flowers and take care of them, it's how I was brought up. Some women still love that and some hate it.

Just like some women would be petrified of playing football competitively with a big brute of a man and some women would absolutely relish it.

The only thing making this hypothetical situation uncomfortable is believing women are delicate and the fairer sex. Ultimately as gender identity continues to evolve, it's something we will all learn to accept and to my childrens children it will be completely normal most probably by then.

There were biological differences between Ronnie Corbett and The Rock. Wouldn't have stopped them lining up on a rugby pitch together technically would it?

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Controversal Thought..... on 17:19 - Dec 18 with 2538 viewsJ2BLUE

Controversal Thought..... on 17:07 - Dec 18 by WarkTheWarkITFC

So what's the difference between a 5'9 woman getting smashed by a 6'5 centre back and the same happening to a 5'6 bloke?

I'm old fashioned. I want to open doors for women, buy them flowers and take care of them, it's how I was brought up. Some women still love that and some hate it.

Just like some women would be petrified of playing football competitively with a big brute of a man and some women would absolutely relish it.

The only thing making this hypothetical situation uncomfortable is believing women are delicate and the fairer sex. Ultimately as gender identity continues to evolve, it's something we will all learn to accept and to my childrens children it will be completely normal most probably by then.

There were biological differences between Ronnie Corbett and The Rock. Wouldn't have stopped them lining up on a rugby pitch together technically would it?


So what's the difference between a 5'9 woman getting smashed by a 6'5 centre back and the same happening to a 5'6 bloke?


Body composition mainly. Even if they could gain muscle and lose fat there are a number of other factors such as bone density etc. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I appreciate any attempts to treat people equally.



'There were biological differences between Ronnie Corbett and The Rock. Wouldn't have stopped them lining up on a rugby pitch together technically would it?'


You could but how many Ronnie Corbett types have you seen on a rugby field? You say that could happen because they are both men, but it doesn't happen because of the differences in their body types and height etc.



Lets not forget that this debate was started by someone mentioning a woman beating a man at darts where body types range from Gerwyn Price to the Pieman etc. Darts is one sport where segregation by sex makes zero sense.


I'm off to enjoy the Liverpool game so probably won't reply.

Truly impaired.
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Controversal Thought..... on 18:44 - Dec 18 with 2473 viewsScuzzer

Trying to compare darts with pro football. Ha ha.

Established 1968

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Controversal Thought..... on 22:03 - Dec 18 with 2360 viewsTrequartista

I'm not sure how your example fits your argument without the introduction of time travel into the laws of the game.

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Controversal Thought..... on 22:25 - Dec 18 with 2333 viewsFelstow1978

Will bring g a whole new meaning to the phrase "box to box player"

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Controversal Thought..... on 23:11 - Dec 18 with 2287 viewsHARRY10

Controversal Thought..... on 22:25 - Dec 18 by Felstow1978

Will bring g a whole new meaning to the phrase "box to box player"


Then OP is confusing contact and non contact sports. Women can compete in Darts, Snooker, Atheletics, Swimming, Tennis etc

However in sports like football there is always the element of risk regarding a claim that contact was of a sexual nature.... think Vinnie Jones and Gazza, and that 'grab'

And lord knows what Neil Shipperly would have been up to were there women on the pitch - a whole new meaning to a hand ball offence.
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Controversal Thought..... on 07:41 - Dec 19 with 2124 viewsStokieBlue

Not for a very long time if ever at the very highest level. Darts is a game where genetic differences between sexes don't really matter. It might happen further down the pyramid.

Famously Serena Williams was asked if she could beat Andy Murray and she said she would be lucky to get a game or two. The physical aspect for games like tennis and football is significant.

SB

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Controversal Thought..... on 08:55 - Dec 19 with 2047 viewsDeano69

It will only be money that drives it.

The women’s game is growing in popularity, quality and support in its own right. All that’s missing is the incredible difference in wages.

Think it would ruin women’s football if they mixed teams.

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Controversal Thought..... on 09:27 - Dec 19 with 2014 viewsRadlett_blue

Controversal Thought..... on 23:11 - Dec 18 by HARRY10

Then OP is confusing contact and non contact sports. Women can compete in Darts, Snooker, Atheletics, Swimming, Tennis etc

However in sports like football there is always the element of risk regarding a claim that contact was of a sexual nature.... think Vinnie Jones and Gazza, and that 'grab'

And lord knows what Neil Shipperly would have been up to were there women on the pitch - a whole new meaning to a hand ball offence.


"Women can compete in tennis"?
The top ranked female player wouldn't beat the 100th ranked male player.
Even a 55 years old Bobby Riggs was competitive against the two top ranked female players in the world (W1,L1).

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Controversal Thought..... on 09:42 - Dec 19 with 2001 viewsStokieBlue

Controversal Thought..... on 23:11 - Dec 18 by HARRY10

Then OP is confusing contact and non contact sports. Women can compete in Darts, Snooker, Atheletics, Swimming, Tennis etc

However in sports like football there is always the element of risk regarding a claim that contact was of a sexual nature.... think Vinnie Jones and Gazza, and that 'grab'

And lord knows what Neil Shipperly would have been up to were there women on the pitch - a whole new meaning to a hand ball offence.


That is total nonsense that woman can compete in Tennis or swimming on an even playing field.

Serena, probably the strongest female player ever said that Murray would totally destroy her in a proper match. Very average male players have been very highly ranked female players.

The woman's WR for 50m breaststroke is 28.71 seconds. Adam Peaty's WR is 26.62 - more than 2 seconds in a 50m race is ridiculously far ahead.

SB

Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula

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Controversal Thought..... on 09:57 - Dec 19 with 1982 viewsMookamoo

Competitive games would be difficult, but I can see it becoming the norm in testimonials and exhibition matches. It was interesting seeing Rachel Yankey etc on the same pitch in Soccer Aid.
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Controversal Thought..... on 22:17 - Dec 19 with 1829 viewsFelstow1978

Controversal Thought..... on 09:42 - Dec 19 by StokieBlue

That is total nonsense that woman can compete in Tennis or swimming on an even playing field.

Serena, probably the strongest female player ever said that Murray would totally destroy her in a proper match. Very average male players have been very highly ranked female players.

The woman's WR for 50m breaststroke is 28.71 seconds. Adam Peaty's WR is 26.62 - more than 2 seconds in a 50m race is ridiculously far ahead.

SB


Men's tennis wont be the same when the William's brothers retire

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Controversal Thought..... on 22:26 - Dec 19 with 1818 viewsHARRY10

Controversal Thought..... on 09:42 - Dec 19 by StokieBlue

That is total nonsense that woman can compete in Tennis or swimming on an even playing field.

Serena, probably the strongest female player ever said that Murray would totally destroy her in a proper match. Very average male players have been very highly ranked female players.

The woman's WR for 50m breaststroke is 28.71 seconds. Adam Peaty's WR is 26.62 - more than 2 seconds in a 50m race is ridiculously far ahead.

SB


I never said they could, I merely pointed out that due to lack of contact they can

ie mixed doubles
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Controversal Thought..... on 22:33 - Dec 19 with 1798 viewsHipsterectomy

Clubs would need 4 dressing rooms and it would be a nightmare. Even Phil Neville has difficulties getting messages and tactical changes to the England girls when it's half time as he isn't allowed in the dressing room

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