| GE maps by age group on 18:05 - Dec 31 with 1758 views | StokieBlue |
| GE maps by age group on 17:52 - Dec 31 by Oxford_Blue |
Hardly. As I said already, the more successful you are, the more tax you pay.
There is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of in working hard, and wanting to do well for yourself. Quite rightly, enlightened self interest means that the tax you pay as you earn more money increases. So you’ll find that successful high earners contribute a lot to the system.
Your parody of conservative voters is outdated and untrue. |
"Your parody of conservative voters is outdated and untrue."
You've applied the same type of parody to Labour voters in your first paragraph of the initial post.
You've also applied an anecdotal case of yourself and extrapolated to the majority of Tory voters.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| GE maps by age group on 18:09 - Dec 31 with 1754 views | Vic |
| GE maps by age group on 09:00 - Dec 31 by Guthrum |
Altho that really only covers a few months of a weak Labour government struggling in the wake of the global oil price crisis and consequent inflation. A situation which started during Heath's preceding Conservative administration (coal strike, three-day week) and continued well into the start of Thatcher's time (wasn't until about 1984 or '85 that things picked up).
Wilson's first gov't wasn't plagued by strikes, neither were Blair or Attlee. |
Agreed, but I don’t ever remember Labour handling the finances well. That may not stack up scientifically but in my over 50 years of following politics the overall impression I have is that financially things tend to get worse under Labour and tend to be better for longer under the Tories. It feels like the Tories always have to clear up the financial mess left by Labour policies without it ever being the other way round. |  |
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| GE maps by age group on 18:12 - Dec 31 with 1744 views | Oxford_Blue |
| GE maps by age group on 18:05 - Dec 31 by StokieBlue |
"Your parody of conservative voters is outdated and untrue."
You've applied the same type of parody to Labour voters in your first paragraph of the initial post.
You've also applied an anecdotal case of yourself and extrapolated to the majority of Tory voters.
SB |
No, it’s a valid response to a particular criticism which was that Tory voters are selfish. In light of that it’s reasonable to explain that the more successful you are the more tax you pay.
We’re not going to agree on this.
Have a good evening and NY. |  | | |
| GE maps by age group on 18:20 - Dec 31 with 1730 views | StokieBlue |
| GE maps by age group on 18:12 - Dec 31 by Oxford_Blue |
No, it’s a valid response to a particular criticism which was that Tory voters are selfish. In light of that it’s reasonable to explain that the more successful you are the more tax you pay.
We’re not going to agree on this.
Have a good evening and NY. |
Paying something that is compulsory in law doesn't prove someone isn't selfish.
They are totally different things.
I actually agree that is folly to state all Tory voters are selfish because clearly that's not the case but you haven't proven they aren't. You've proven people who earn more pay what they have to pay.
Have a great NY!
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| GE maps by age group on 19:17 - Dec 31 with 1705 views | Guthrum |
| GE maps by age group on 18:09 - Dec 31 by Vic |
Agreed, but I don’t ever remember Labour handling the finances well. That may not stack up scientifically but in my over 50 years of following politics the overall impression I have is that financially things tend to get worse under Labour and tend to be better for longer under the Tories. It feels like the Tories always have to clear up the financial mess left by Labour policies without it ever being the other way round. |
As a contrasting example, the Conservative governments of the late 1980s and early '90s left a dreadful mess and serious recession. |  |
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| GE maps by age group on 20:22 - Dec 31 with 1687 views | Vic |
| GE maps by age group on 19:17 - Dec 31 by Guthrum |
As a contrasting example, the Conservative governments of the late 1980s and early '90s left a dreadful mess and serious recession. |
Are you sure Guthers? Tories were in power until 1997 (iirc) and though they took us through recession pretty much everyone agreed at the time that they left Labour an economy that was well on the way to recovery and about to thrive again. Yet when Labour were voted out in 2010 we we pretty much scraping the barrel again.
Financial cycles and world wide r3cession didn’t help, but I’m not sure they had prepared much for the bad times which everyone knows happens. | |
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| GE maps by age group on 20:38 - Dec 31 with 1675 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| GE maps by age group on 19:17 - Dec 31 by Guthrum |
As a contrasting example, the Conservative governments of the late 1980s and early '90s left a dreadful mess and serious recession. |
Not sure austerity 10 years into the current regime can really be laid at the door of the reckless Blair government by anyone except the right-wing press.
As Vic said "anecdotally but not scientifically provable". |  |
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| GE maps by age group on 20:44 - Dec 31 with 1674 views | TJS |
Not sure this is anything new. Those maps would probably have looked broadly the same at any point over the last 50 years and probably in loads of other countries as well. |  | | |
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| GE maps by age group on 20:48 - Dec 31 with 1672 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| GE maps by age group on 20:44 - Dec 31 by TJS |
Not sure this is anything new. Those maps would probably have looked broadly the same at any point over the last 50 years and probably in loads of other countries as well. |
The expert who showed them to me this year felt the earnings demographic one was very atypical. Not sure about the age one but he seemed a bit surprised when he showed that one too. | |
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| GE maps by age group on 20:49 - Dec 31 with 1675 views | Guthrum |
| GE maps by age group on 20:22 - Dec 31 by Vic |
Are you sure Guthers? Tories were in power until 1997 (iirc) and though they took us through recession pretty much everyone agreed at the time that they left Labour an economy that was well on the way to recovery and about to thrive again. Yet when Labour were voted out in 2010 we we pretty much scraping the barrel again.
Financial cycles and world wide r3cession didn’t help, but I’m not sure they had prepared much for the bad times which everyone knows happens. |
But the recession of the early '90s was nothing to do with Labour. They hadn't been in power for over a decade.
Labour weren't given the opportunity in 2010 to sort things out as Major had (unexpectedly) received in 1992.
These things can (and do) happen to everybody. Except, perhaps, in extended periods of economic stability such as 1945-73. [Post edited 31 Dec 2019 20:53]
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| GE maps by age group on 20:49 - Dec 31 with 1671 views | GaryCooper |
| GE maps by age group on 15:31 - Dec 31 by jeera |
That electing a Labour government in this day and age would not mean an automatic return to those times.
How many times does this have to be spelled out. |
Ok, sorry, wrong end of stick, of course it is not a given that it would be like 1979, but it is the very thought that it may be the same, this was from judging a very left wing manifesto as 1970s style, a manifesto that had some very good proposals but too many of them, that stopped labour winning.
Happy new year, |  | | |
| GE maps by age group on 22:04 - Dec 31 with 1635 views | jeera |
| GE maps by age group on 20:49 - Dec 31 by GaryCooper |
Ok, sorry, wrong end of stick, of course it is not a given that it would be like 1979, but it is the very thought that it may be the same, this was from judging a very left wing manifesto as 1970s style, a manifesto that had some very good proposals but too many of them, that stopped labour winning.
Happy new year, |
Best wishes to you and yours too. |  |
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| GE maps by age group on 00:29 - Jan 1 with 1603 views | Herbivore |
| GE maps by age group on 17:47 - Dec 31 by Oxford_Blue |
To quote Hitchens, that which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. |
Which is precisely what I did. |  |
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| GE maps by age group on 12:07 - Jan 1 with 1540 views | Ryorry |
| GE maps by age group on 01:01 - Dec 31 by ClareBlue |
So if the policies of equity of health care and education along with better working conditions and less environmental exposure to pollutants are implemted and we end up with longer life expectancy, all we are doing is creating more Conservative voters?
The real question is, of course, why the disconnect between genrations.
The tax paying base that might be threatened by some policies is not really in the retired generation but more the established tax payers around 45, who have not rejected the policies of Labour. Our older friends are pretty settled and no Labour policy really said it was going to hit them, so why the complete rejection by the older generation? Any ideas? |
Personally, I voted Labour (in a constituency where there was a 20K Tory majority, so pretty pointless, but it was a tactical vote as Lab were the Cons' nearest rivals) and am over 65.
If you listened to thousands of Labour canvassers about their doorstep experiences though, literally millions of people didn't vote Labour because of 1) Corbyn 2) too radical a manifesto (as in too much too soon) and 3) Brexit.
It's true to say that as people age they're more likely to vote conservative, as they tend to have more (possessions, money) to (literally) conserve, but of course some people never lose their ideals & wish for a fairer society (which benefits everyone anyway). I hope I'm one.
Labour needs to recognise that the UK is fundamentally moderate by nature, and that out & out radicalism will never bring it a majority. They need to temper their idealism with a big dash of realism if they're ever to regain power. |  |
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| GE maps by age group on 12:12 - Jan 1 with 1534 views | noggin |
| GE maps by age group on 17:52 - Dec 31 by Oxford_Blue |
Hardly. As I said already, the more successful you are, the more tax you pay.
There is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of in working hard, and wanting to do well for yourself. Quite rightly, enlightened self interest means that the tax you pay as you earn more money increases. So you’ll find that successful high earners contribute a lot to the system.
Your parody of conservative voters is outdated and untrue. |
So you don't mind people living in poverty, so long as you are ok? After all, you worked hard for your wealth. |  |
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