| Corbynism - The Post mortem 08:11 - Jan 20 with 2618 views | itfcjoe |
New podcast, first episode is about the anti-semitism.
A really interesting listen and gives a lot of background to both him and the situation - guests are Jonathan Friedland, someone from Jewish Labour Movement and another bloke.
Hopefully the rest of the series will be as good as the first episode
https://audioboom.com/channels/5016299 |  |
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| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 08:16 - Jan 20 with 2172 views | Herbivore |
Sounds good. I really dislike the term Corbynism though, it makes moderate social democracy sound like an extremist ideology. |  |
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| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 08:26 - Jan 20 with 2144 views | Steve_M |
I'll try and listen to it at some point. I like Oz Katerji, he's well worth following on Twitter if you don't already. |  |
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| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 08:33 - Jan 20 with 2132 views | itfcjoe |
| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 08:16 - Jan 20 by Herbivore |
Sounds good. I really dislike the term Corbynism though, it makes moderate social democracy sound like an extremist ideology. |
They come to the conclusion that Corbynism doesn't even really mean anything as so hard to define what he actually stands for | |
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| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 08:36 - Jan 20 with 2125 views | Herbivore |
| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 08:33 - Jan 20 by itfcjoe |
They come to the conclusion that Corbynism doesn't even really mean anything as so hard to define what he actually stands for |
It was a media label attached to Labour to make them look extreme, it's no wonder they couldn't find deeper ideology behind it. All Labour under Corbyn were offering was a fairly common and relatively moderate form of social democracy. When people were asked about the policies in isolation they generally liked them, but Corbyn and Brexit were both hugely problematic for Labour at the GE. [Post edited 20 Jan 2020 8:51]
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| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 08:47 - Jan 20 with 2111 views | GlasgowBlue |
Adam Langleben “ A senior member of staff in Jeremy Corbyn’s office admitted to me that they thought that Jeremy Corbyn was an antisemite but they were going to try and manage it. This member of staff still works there”
Just over a month ago you were prepared to put this bloke into number ten Joe.
And before anyone says “yeah but Boris”. I didn’t vote to put Johnson in number ten. I concluded that neither he is Corbyn were fit for office. [Post edited 20 Jan 2020 8:54]
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| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 08:50 - Jan 20 with 2100 views | Darth_Koont |
"Jan 17, 7:00 PM
Corbynism: The Post-Mortem is a limited podcast series exploring Jeremy Corbyn's tenure of the Labour Party, hosted by Oz Katerji.
Focusing on Labour's institutional antisemitism crisis, the first episode features former Labour councillor Adam Langleben, Guardian columnist Jonathan Freedland and human rights barrister Adam Wagner."
It'll be interesting to hear that but you'd be hard-pressed to come up with 4 more vocal critics of Corbyn and Labour on AS. At least they're not as loony as GnasherJew, Stephen Pollard et al but hardly a balanced debate by the looks of it. |  |
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| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 08:54 - Jan 20 with 2077 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 08:50 - Jan 20 by Darth_Koont |
"Jan 17, 7:00 PM
Corbynism: The Post-Mortem is a limited podcast series exploring Jeremy Corbyn's tenure of the Labour Party, hosted by Oz Katerji.
Focusing on Labour's institutional antisemitism crisis, the first episode features former Labour councillor Adam Langleben, Guardian columnist Jonathan Freedland and human rights barrister Adam Wagner."
It'll be interesting to hear that but you'd be hard-pressed to come up with 4 more vocal critics of Corbyn and Labour on AS. At least they're not as loony as GnasherJew, Stephen Pollard et al but hardly a balanced debate by the looks of it. |
You really are the Chris Williamson of TWTD. | |
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| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 09:08 - Jan 20 with 2046 views | itfcjoe |
| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 08:47 - Jan 20 by GlasgowBlue |
Adam Langleben “ A senior member of staff in Jeremy Corbyn’s office admitted to me that they thought that Jeremy Corbyn was an antisemite but they were going to try and manage it. This member of staff still works there”
Just over a month ago you were prepared to put this bloke into number ten Joe.
And before anyone says “yeah but Boris”. I didn’t vote to put Johnson in number ten. I concluded that neither he is Corbyn were fit for office. [Post edited 20 Jan 2020 8:54]
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I voted for the Labour Party, not Corbyn.
I'm at ease with my choice, and still think Labour are the party for good and am hoping that they find a better leader. | |
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| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 09:10 - Jan 20 with 2041 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 08:36 - Jan 20 by Herbivore |
It was a media label attached to Labour to make them look extreme, it's no wonder they couldn't find deeper ideology behind it. All Labour under Corbyn were offering was a fairly common and relatively moderate form of social democracy. When people were asked about the policies in isolation they generally liked them, but Corbyn and Brexit were both hugely problematic for Labour at the GE. [Post edited 20 Jan 2020 8:51]
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People liked some of Labours policies, but those policies got completely buried in the manifesto behind tw*ttery such as free broadband and nationalising the railways. Research from both before and after the election showed that the public didn’t believe Labour could deliver on it - which nullified that support for a majority of the electorate and rendered any attacks on the Tories far-fetched promises moot
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/12/23/their-own-words
It’s not scientific and obviously a small sample size, but for anyone ‘normal’ I know (eg. No real interest in politics but go and vote in a general election), any comment about Labour policies generally seeing them as a joke (eg. ‘Guess we’re not getting our free broadband then!’ following the election)
Obviously Corbyn and Brexit were the key issues, but that doesn’t mean the manifesto was otherwise a success |  |
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| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 09:19 - Jan 20 with 2004 views | Herbivore |
| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 09:10 - Jan 20 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
People liked some of Labours policies, but those policies got completely buried in the manifesto behind tw*ttery such as free broadband and nationalising the railways. Research from both before and after the election showed that the public didn’t believe Labour could deliver on it - which nullified that support for a majority of the electorate and rendered any attacks on the Tories far-fetched promises moot
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/12/23/their-own-words
It’s not scientific and obviously a small sample size, but for anyone ‘normal’ I know (eg. No real interest in politics but go and vote in a general election), any comment about Labour policies generally seeing them as a joke (eg. ‘Guess we’re not getting our free broadband then!’ following the election)
Obviously Corbyn and Brexit were the key issues, but that doesn’t mean the manifesto was otherwise a success |
They threw way too much at the manifesto, I agree. It was a 30+ year programme of progressive government shoe-horned into one document. That said, even if they'd reined it in a bit the issues of Brexit and Corbyn would have still lost them the election. | |
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| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 10:21 - Jan 20 with 1938 views | hampstead_blue |
| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 08:50 - Jan 20 by Darth_Koont |
"Jan 17, 7:00 PM
Corbynism: The Post-Mortem is a limited podcast series exploring Jeremy Corbyn's tenure of the Labour Party, hosted by Oz Katerji.
Focusing on Labour's institutional antisemitism crisis, the first episode features former Labour councillor Adam Langleben, Guardian columnist Jonathan Freedland and human rights barrister Adam Wagner."
It'll be interesting to hear that but you'd be hard-pressed to come up with 4 more vocal critics of Corbyn and Labour on AS. At least they're not as loony as GnasherJew, Stephen Pollard et al but hardly a balanced debate by the looks of it. |
De-nile is a river in Egypt. Something which you are happy floating in. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 10:44 - Jan 20 with 1903 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 10:21 - Jan 20 by hampstead_blue |
De-nile is a river in Egypt. Something which you are happy floating in. |
Works both ways.
I'm interested in the truth. Not people's opinions and agendas dressed up as fact. | |
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| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 13:53 - Jan 20 with 1789 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 09:19 - Jan 20 by Herbivore |
They threw way too much at the manifesto, I agree. It was a 30+ year programme of progressive government shoe-horned into one document. That said, even if they'd reined it in a bit the issues of Brexit and Corbyn would have still lost them the election. |
Oh definitely, you only need to listen to the accounts of those campaigning to know they were the 2 biggest issues
However there does seem to be an attempt to drive a narrative that the manifesto and policies were absolutely on point, which I think is at best unhelpful and worst wilfully burying heads in the sand | |
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| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 13:58 - Jan 20 with 1781 views | Herbivore |
| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 13:53 - Jan 20 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Oh definitely, you only need to listen to the accounts of those campaigning to know they were the 2 biggest issues
However there does seem to be an attempt to drive a narrative that the manifesto and policies were absolutely on point, which I think is at best unhelpful and worst wilfully burying heads in the sand |
I think it'd be fair to say the thrust of the policies was relatively popular, there seems to be an appetite for a more socially democratic approach (particularly when policies were separated out from the leader and party) . The specific policies and more so what they represented as a bundle were more problematic as they lacked credibility, being far too 'ambitious' for one term of government. Combine worries about how credible the manifesto was with existing concerns about Corbyn's credibility and you end up with a credibility crisis, not helped by a barely credible position on Brexit. | |
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| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 14:08 - Jan 20 with 1771 views | itfcjoe |
Interesting piece, I think the bit about the 'out-riders' at the end is key - they need to use their MP base, not those who say and do what is required to stay in the favour of the Leaders Office | |
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| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 14:21 - Jan 20 with 1740 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 13:58 - Jan 20 by Herbivore |
I think it'd be fair to say the thrust of the policies was relatively popular, there seems to be an appetite for a more socially democratic approach (particularly when policies were separated out from the leader and party) . The specific policies and more so what they represented as a bundle were more problematic as they lacked credibility, being far too 'ambitious' for one term of government. Combine worries about how credible the manifesto was with existing concerns about Corbyn's credibility and you end up with a credibility crisis, not helped by a barely credible position on Brexit. |
Yes that’s what I meant, although I do also think there is a bit of a difference between people being presented with a policy and liking it, and policies that people actually want and care about given a blank list [Post edited 20 Jan 2020 14:21]
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| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 14:24 - Jan 20 with 1726 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 08:47 - Jan 20 by GlasgowBlue |
Adam Langleben “ A senior member of staff in Jeremy Corbyn’s office admitted to me that they thought that Jeremy Corbyn was an antisemite but they were going to try and manage it. This member of staff still works there”
Just over a month ago you were prepared to put this bloke into number ten Joe.
And before anyone says “yeah but Boris”. I didn’t vote to put Johnson in number ten. I concluded that neither he is Corbyn were fit for office. [Post edited 20 Jan 2020 8:54]
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And John Bercow, who is Jewish, said that after decades of knowing Corbyn, he was certain Corbyn WASN'T in any way antisemitic.
I was accused of cherrypicking when I posted this, because it's only one person's account. |  |
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| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 14:31 - Jan 20 with 1709 views | Herbivore |
| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 14:21 - Jan 20 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Yes that’s what I meant, although I do also think there is a bit of a difference between people being presented with a policy and liking it, and policies that people actually want and care about given a blank list [Post edited 20 Jan 2020 14:21]
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True, although at least they did put some policies out there for people to take a view on. | |
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| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 14:43 - Jan 20 with 1692 views | hampstead_blue |
| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 10:44 - Jan 20 by Darth_Koont |
Works both ways.
I'm interested in the truth. Not people's opinions and agendas dressed up as fact. |
What is wrong with the opinions offered in the podcast?
There have been many others who've lifted the lid on Corbyn's festering office and allowed us to smell the stench from within. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 15:30 - Jan 20 with 1657 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 14:43 - Jan 20 by hampstead_blue |
What is wrong with the opinions offered in the podcast?
There have been many others who've lifted the lid on Corbyn's festering office and allowed us to smell the stench from within. |
So you admit they're just opinions. That's a start. My problem is that they're all the same opinion from people who have been gunning for Corbyn from the start. I'd liked them to have got someone on like Antony Lerman who offers an alternative view and has been researching and writing about antisemitism and the political agendas involved for decades. Not just since 2015.
And who are these people who have "lifted the lid"? | |
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| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 15:55 - Jan 20 with 1624 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 14:24 - Jan 20 by BrixtonBlue |
And John Bercow, who is Jewish, said that after decades of knowing Corbyn, he was certain Corbyn WASN'T in any way antisemitic.
I was accused of cherrypicking when I posted this, because it's only one person's account. |
I would like to be the first to offer my resignation by BrixtonBlue 12 Dec 2019 23:21from political posting.
I clearly have different views to the majority in this country. But such a crushing defeat is more than that. I'm clearly totally out of touch.
Tonight feels like one of those games where you were looking forward to a Town match all week, a big one perhaps, and then you're 2-0 down in the first 5 minutes.
The reason I left you in peace rather then reciprocate your willy waving in my direction on the morning after the 2017 general election was because you bowed out gracefully. And for some misguided reason I fully expected you to keep your word for longer then just a few weeks.
But if you want to do the dance again then I'm more than happy to give you 100 Jewish anti Corbyn opinions for every on Jewish pro Corbyn opinion you care to put up as your example of tokenism. [Post edited 20 Jan 2020 15:57]
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| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 15:58 - Jan 20 with 1612 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 15:55 - Jan 20 by GlasgowBlue |
I would like to be the first to offer my resignation by BrixtonBlue 12 Dec 2019 23:21from political posting.
I clearly have different views to the majority in this country. But such a crushing defeat is more than that. I'm clearly totally out of touch.
Tonight feels like one of those games where you were looking forward to a Town match all week, a big one perhaps, and then you're 2-0 down in the first 5 minutes.
The reason I left you in peace rather then reciprocate your willy waving in my direction on the morning after the 2017 general election was because you bowed out gracefully. And for some misguided reason I fully expected you to keep your word for longer then just a few weeks.
But if you want to do the dance again then I'm more than happy to give you 100 Jewish anti Corbyn opinions for every on Jewish pro Corbyn opinion you care to put up as your example of tokenism. [Post edited 20 Jan 2020 15:57]
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Some facts would be better.
You've posted lots of opinions and accusations before. Often on an hourly basis. Factual evidence seems a lot harder to come by. | |
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| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 16:02 - Jan 20 with 1598 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 15:58 - Jan 20 by Darth_Koont |
Some facts would be better.
You've posted lots of opinions and accusations before. Often on an hourly basis. Factual evidence seems a lot harder to come by. |
I was addressing the organ grinder. Not his monkey.
I'm sure Dollers is grown up enough to answer for himself. | |
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| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 16:07 - Jan 20 with 1575 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Corbynism - The Post mortem on 15:30 - Jan 20 by Darth_Koont |
So you admit they're just opinions. That's a start. My problem is that they're all the same opinion from people who have been gunning for Corbyn from the start. I'd liked them to have got someone on like Antony Lerman who offers an alternative view and has been researching and writing about antisemitism and the political agendas involved for decades. Not just since 2015.
And who are these people who have "lifted the lid"? |
Do you think that the 4 Jewish people featured in the podcast accuse Corbyn of unleashing and enabling a gallus form of antisemitism which had previously lurked in the shadows because they hate Corbyn?
Or do you think the 4 Jewish people featured in the podcast hate Corbyn because heunleashed and enabled a gallus form of antisemitism which had previously lurked in the shadows? | |
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