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One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. 12:28 - Jan 23 with 27438 viewsmonytowbray

Is why many feel the need to assume what they think is patriotic or the opinion of the masses? Farage I regularly used to see referred as the man of the people. Tommy Robinson and Hopkins are regularly said to "just be saying what everyone's thinking" by the same folk.

Why do they feel the need to project their lack of values on everyone or claim it's the British thing to do? These people are far from a "majority", let alone a "silent" one if you spend 5 minutes reading the rubbish spouted on social media.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone equate a leftist idea as patriotic or something everyone believes deep down because to do so with any idea is nonsense, even if in the actual majority. I don't believe banning hunting is the British thing to do or something everyone thinks for example, even though you'd hard pressed to find many people who are pro-hunting next to the masses of people against it.

Eurgh.

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One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:38 - Jan 24 with 3521 viewsitfcjoe

One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:30 - Jan 24 by GeoffSentence

I wonder how many people who argue in favour of the British Empire would have been happy to be a subject people in someone else's empire. Even one that built good high speed railways.


Anyone who wasn't wealthy in those times hardly had a great life whatever was happening - Empire's shaped the world, in good and bad

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One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:40 - Jan 24 with 3512 viewsflimflam

One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:30 - Jan 24 by GeoffSentence

I wonder how many people who argue in favour of the British Empire would have been happy to be a subject people in someone else's empire. Even one that built good high speed railways.


Like the Romans you mean?

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One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:44 - Jan 24 with 3496 viewsfooters

One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:38 - Jan 24 by itfcjoe

Anyone who wasn't wealthy in those times hardly had a great life whatever was happening - Empire's shaped the world, in good and bad


I doubt their lives would have been made much better by relieving them of their relative autonomy and extracting the natural resources from their homeland.

Saying that it was bad anyway so whatever isn't really a good excuse for what happened.

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One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:46 - Jan 24 with 3490 viewsfooters

One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:40 - Jan 24 by flimflam

Like the Romans you mean?


The Romans destroyed more culture and knowledge through their Empire than can be made up for in aqueducts and Christianity.

Whether you think their society was 'better' or not, enforcing that life on unwilling people still isn't right.

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One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:46 - Jan 24 with 3489 views26_Paz

One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 14:44 - Jan 24 by BackToRussia

You've named two good things, and completely ignored all the atrocities listed. Head in the sand. Your best line was Russia and China have committed genocide too so its OK.


I don't think I said that

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One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:53 - Jan 24 with 3471 viewsLord_Lucan

One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:08 - Jan 24 by flimflam

Most people on this thread seem to despise anything about this country and will happily highlight all the bad while ignoring the good.

Its almost as if they want us to fall flat on our faces post brexit. Sad really.


And it is puzzling that millions of people would love to live here.

I just can't work it out.

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One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:57 - Jan 24 with 3459 viewsflimflam

One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:46 - Jan 24 by footers

The Romans destroyed more culture and knowledge through their Empire than can be made up for in aqueducts and Christianity.

Whether you think their society was 'better' or not, enforcing that life on unwilling people still isn't right.


That was my point

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One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:59 - Jan 24 with 3448 viewsitfcjoe

One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:53 - Jan 24 by Lord_Lucan

And it is puzzling that millions of people would love to live here.

I just can't work it out.


Including those from countries previously in the Empire

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One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:54 - Jan 24 with 3379 viewsDarth_Koont

One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:08 - Jan 24 by flimflam

Most people on this thread seem to despise anything about this country and will happily highlight all the bad while ignoring the good.

Its almost as if they want us to fall flat on our faces post brexit. Sad really.


I think you can turn that around. If you love the UK then you absolutely hate to see it cheapened and made worse by the people who see it in very narrow terms.

The UK isn't a blunt, nationalistic idea for people to feel better about themselves. It's a real place where real people can live happy lives.

I'll come down hard on anyone who jeopardises that.

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One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:55 - Jan 24 with 3374 viewsBackToRussia

One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:30 - Jan 24 by GeoffSentence

I wonder how many people who argue in favour of the British Empire would have been happy to be a subject people in someone else's empire. Even one that built good high speed railways.


I'm sure if we were about to be invaded by a so called more enlightened country, everyone on this thread would welcome them with open arms.

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One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:57 - Jan 24 with 3365 viewsBackToRussia

One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:59 - Jan 24 by itfcjoe

Including those from countries previously in the Empire


Or, flipped another way, the fact that there was a huge demand to come to Britain at the end of the empire suggests we didn't improve their countries very much after all.

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One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 17:00 - Jan 24 with 3353 viewsBackToRussia

One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:53 - Jan 24 by Lord_Lucan

And it is puzzling that millions of people would love to live here.

I just can't work it out.


No one is arguing this isn't a prosperous country, GDP figures show this. Callis is complaining there are right wing dickheads in this country who misuse nationalism, that seems fairly inarguable to me. I am arguing Britain's history is nothing to be proud of. That also seems inarguable to me, unless you want to be an apologist for what we would today call war crimes, human right abuses and why not call it what it is? Genocide.
[Post edited 24 Jan 2020 17:01]

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One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 17:01 - Jan 24 with 3348 viewsmanchego

One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:53 - Jan 24 by Lord_Lucan

And it is puzzling that millions of people would love to live here.

I just can't work it out.


Putting your sarcasm to one side, the fact that loads of people want to be here is a pathetic reason to assume there is nothing going wrong here.
It's a really lazy attitude to adopt and is exactly when you allow things to go wrong; and go wrong really quickly.
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One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 17:04 - Jan 24 with 3339 viewsjeera

One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:21 - Jan 24 by flimflam

Dont forget the Germans, Japanese, Russians, Persians, Turks, Italians etc etc


That was the ellipsis.

I fear you may be deliberately trying to misrepresent me but I'm hoping not.

I couldn't have been much clearer really that it's ok to love your country whilst also show awareness of its history.
[Post edited 24 Jan 2020 17:09]

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One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 17:11 - Jan 24 with 3327 viewsmonytowbray

One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:23 - Jan 24 by flimflam

I always try to see the good.

Try it, it may make you more at peace with yourself.


I used to, then I realised there are people out there who will use that against you.

Call it a hard lesson in life learned. Sadly some people/things need to be set on fire.

I've also spent far too much time with businesses/people who spend far too long blowing their own trumpet to realise the environment/personality they've created is toxic. The concept of positivity for the sake of positivity leaves a lot of holes to be exploited or left open.
[Post edited 24 Jan 2020 17:19]

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One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 17:16 - Jan 24 with 3317 viewsmonytowbray

One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:53 - Jan 24 by Lord_Lucan

And it is puzzling that millions of people would love to live here.

I just can't work it out.


This sort of comes back to the "IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT MOVE TO NORTH KOREA" argument I've seen mentioned in the past (not to say that is the point you are making here). Just because some places in the world are worse doesn't mean we don't have our own issues to fix.

TBF the UK isn't half as desirable as it once was. Much news in recent years has stated many migrant labour workers would rather go elsewhere for better money and quality of life.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/feb/09/lack-of-migrant-workers-left

There are also many reasons people may want to come to the UK beyond the simplified idea that it's a great place. The fact English is a fairly common second language is a big factor. As are things like already having family/friends here.

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One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 17:56 - Jan 24 with 3283 viewsbrazil1982

One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 17:00 - Jan 24 by BackToRussia

No one is arguing this isn't a prosperous country, GDP figures show this. Callis is complaining there are right wing dickheads in this country who misuse nationalism, that seems fairly inarguable to me. I am arguing Britain's history is nothing to be proud of. That also seems inarguable to me, unless you want to be an apologist for what we would today call war crimes, human right abuses and why not call it what it is? Genocide.
[Post edited 24 Jan 2020 17:01]


The Empire is not something to boast about but there are plenty of other parts of British history we can be proud of.
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One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 18:11 - Jan 24 with 3269 viewsjeera

One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 17:56 - Jan 24 by brazil1982

The Empire is not something to boast about but there are plenty of other parts of British history we can be proud of.


This is true also.

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One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 18:57 - Jan 24 with 3231 viewsBackToRussia

One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 17:56 - Jan 24 by brazil1982

The Empire is not something to boast about but there are plenty of other parts of British history we can be proud of.


I'd be interested to hear what they were really.

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One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 19:47 - Jan 24 with 3210 viewsjeera

One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 18:57 - Jan 24 by BackToRussia

I'd be interested to hear what they were really.


Architecture?

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One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 19:57 - Jan 24 with 3195 viewsGaryCooper

One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 18:57 - Jan 24 by BackToRussia

I'd be interested to hear what they were really.


The language, the wars against extremism, the welcoming of immigrants, inventions that have saved millions of lives, ad nauseum. Endless British achievements if one opens their mind.
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One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 20:00 - Jan 24 with 3189 viewsfooters

One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 19:57 - Jan 24 by GaryCooper

The language, the wars against extremism, the welcoming of immigrants, inventions that have saved millions of lives, ad nauseum. Endless British achievements if one opens their mind.


The English language?


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One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 20:21 - Jan 24 with 3153 viewsmatteoblue

One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 22:26 - Jan 23 by Darth_Koont

I agree with a lot of that. But what will keep society and also the union together in the UK will be a fairer, more equitable system. Which is why the current government is possibly the worst ever, crippling the country with Brexit and likely instigating the break up of the UK along the way.

And let's be clear: There's ALWAYS an argument for committed capitalists and committed socialists working together for society's best.

But modern right-wing politicians are just faith-based snake oil salesmen who won't have to deal with the results of their lies. These people in government aren't businessmen and women. They're not campaigners and they're not even semi-competent administrators. They're gobshyte marketeers who will never carry the can because they don't even know what the can is. Knowing stuff has never ever been important for them which is why they're unapologetically wrong about almost everything.

That's the modern right wing. Certainly in the UK and US. They want to take down the state and society by being utterly useless.Then pick up their share of the pieces.


Thanks. What I find interesting about your comments is that you refer to the government (or possibly neoliberalism) as the 'modern right'. I would call them Left, as they are not my definition of conservative. I suspect you call them (modern) Right as they are not socialists. Again those problem definitions of Left and Right!

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One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 21:22 - Jan 24 with 3121 viewsDarth_Koont

One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 20:21 - Jan 24 by matteoblue

Thanks. What I find interesting about your comments is that you refer to the government (or possibly neoliberalism) as the 'modern right'. I would call them Left, as they are not my definition of conservative. I suspect you call them (modern) Right as they are not socialists. Again those problem definitions of Left and Right!


That doesn’t make any sense. Just because they’re sh!t conservatives doesn’t make them left-wing.

They’re further from the left than ever.

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One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 21:33 - Jan 24 with 3106 viewsjeera

One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 19:57 - Jan 24 by GaryCooper

The language, the wars against extremism, the welcoming of immigrants, inventions that have saved millions of lives, ad nauseum. Endless British achievements if one opens their mind.


You'd have to do better than that if you want to enforce a point GC.

Our language is made up of some 28% French, some Latin [directly], Sanskrit, Arabic, Germanic, Old English, others...

I like we've been relatively welcoming to some immigration but the honest truth is we actually haven't been too welcoming in times of need and there has been some serious campaigning to the government in the past to allow even the most immediately endangered people to come here for safety.

It wasn't with open arms - much of it was reluctant.

It's ok to love your country, but that doesn't mean we have to reinvent history in order to do so.

We have to come to terms with our identity. That doesn't make us personally responsible nor does it mean we're alone having a nation of some portion of disgraceful historical conduct.

Far from it unfortunately.

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