| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. 12:28 - Jan 23 with 27680 views | monytowbray |
Is why many feel the need to assume what they think is patriotic or the opinion of the masses? Farage I regularly used to see referred as the man of the people. Tommy Robinson and Hopkins are regularly said to "just be saying what everyone's thinking" by the same folk.
Why do they feel the need to project their lack of values on everyone or claim it's the British thing to do? These people are far from a "majority", let alone a "silent" one if you spend 5 minutes reading the rubbish spouted on social media.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone equate a leftist idea as patriotic or something everyone believes deep down because to do so with any idea is nonsense, even if in the actual majority. I don't believe banning hunting is the British thing to do or something everyone thinks for example, even though you'd hard pressed to find many people who are pro-hunting next to the masses of people against it.
Eurgh. |  |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:24 - Jan 23 with 1760 views | Churchman |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 12:30 - Jan 23 by PJH |
On seeing the headline I thought that this was another 'why Edwards should not be in the team' thread. |
Jimmy Robertson was a great right winger. |  | | |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:24 - Jan 23 with 1761 views | factual_blue |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:19 - Jan 23 by ElephantintheRoom |
Same reason that 17 million can drag 58 million Brits out of the EU... 43% of the vote is a MASSIVE mandate from the british people etc. |
When I went to school, 17 million would have been less than 30% of 58 million.
Has something changed in the fundamental nature of arithmetic? |  |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:26 - Jan 23 with 1761 views | 26_Paz |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:19 - Jan 23 by ElephantintheRoom |
Same reason that 17 million can drag 58 million Brits out of the EU... 43% of the vote is a MASSIVE mandate from the british people etc. |
What I don't understand is how despite consistently getting their ar$es handed to them in elections and referenda etc the left can somehow claim that this is unfair or unrepresentative. The rules are known at the start, if some people don't turn up to vote so the overall majority of voting age people isn't over 50% then them's the rules ... |  |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:28 - Jan 23 with 1763 views | Darth_Koont |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:15 - Jan 23 by r2d2 |
What is being patriotic though? The Royal family? The NHS? Following the England football team? Our Armed forces? The countries historic ruins? The history of our country? Lots of things can be classed as patriotic, doesnt make people right wing though. |
Here's a good test.
1. Do you think as much as possible should be done for disabled veterans and veterans with mental health issues?
2. Do you think exactly the same for people in society with disabilities and mental health issues?
There's no denying that there's a huge gap between the two questions in this country. It's a generalisation, of course, but I'd bet my house on the vast majority of those who make up the difference being right-wingers and fierce patriots. I'd also imagine there are a few nutty anti-imperialists who see veterans as less deserving somehow. |  |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:34 - Jan 23 with 1734 views | r2d2 |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:28 - Jan 23 by Darth_Koont |
Here's a good test.
1. Do you think as much as possible should be done for disabled veterans and veterans with mental health issues?
2. Do you think exactly the same for people in society with disabilities and mental health issues?
There's no denying that there's a huge gap between the two questions in this country. It's a generalisation, of course, but I'd bet my house on the vast majority of those who make up the difference being right-wingers and fierce patriots. I'd also imagine there are a few nutty anti-imperialists who see veterans as less deserving somehow. |
Thats a good comparison. It would be good to see what the percentage would be in a newspaper poll. |  | | |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:39 - Jan 23 with 1718 views | factual_blue |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:15 - Jan 23 by r2d2 |
What is being patriotic though? The Royal family? The NHS? Following the England football team? Our Armed forces? The countries historic ruins? The history of our country? Lots of things can be classed as patriotic, doesnt make people right wing though. |
It appears to have become hating foreigners, and particularly those of non-European ethnicity.
If you start sentences 'This isn't racist, but....' then you are a 'patriot'.
What do you think people 'love' about the history of our country? | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:40 - Jan 23 with 1717 views | Darth_Koont |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:34 - Jan 23 by r2d2 |
Thats a good comparison. It would be good to see what the percentage would be in a newspaper poll. |
I suspect that people wouldn't admit it when asked directly. But deep down inside that's what many of us UK citizens must be thinking for there to be a difference in support.
Ultimately how you became disabled or suffer from mental health issues shouldn't make any difference in terms of how you deserve to be treated. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:45 - Jan 23 with 1703 views | r2d2 |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:39 - Jan 23 by factual_blue |
It appears to have become hating foreigners, and particularly those of non-European ethnicity.
If you start sentences 'This isn't racist, but....' then you are a 'patriot'.
What do you think people 'love' about the history of our country? |
I love history. British and World. We have been no better or worse than any other country when it comes to history. I LOVE british history. Thats wrong is it? | | | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:48 - Jan 23 with 1696 views | BackToRussia |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:45 - Jan 23 by r2d2 |
I love history. British and World. We have been no better or worse than any other country when it comes to history. I LOVE british history. Thats wrong is it? |
So we've been as bad as a country as Bhutan have we? No, we are one of the few countries to have an imperial empire, and we used it exploit and dehumanise the world, like every other imperialist empire has done and continues to do. |  |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:48 - Jan 23 with 1692 views | monytowbray |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:45 - Jan 23 by r2d2 |
I love history. British and World. We have been no better or worse than any other country when it comes to history. I LOVE british history. Thats wrong is it? |
Depends how willing you are to discuss the nuisances of our past behaviour and the ongoing impact that's had on the world.
There's a difference between history and patriotism. I find WWII fascinating, Nazis and all the grim stuff included. But I also acknowledge the Nazis were evil. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:56 - Jan 23 with 1674 views | 26_Paz |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:48 - Jan 23 by BackToRussia |
So we've been as bad as a country as Bhutan have we? No, we are one of the few countries to have an imperial empire, and we used it exploit and dehumanise the world, like every other imperialist empire has done and continues to do. |
I think the point is, yes, we've done some bad but we've also done some good so we're about neutral in terms of overall impact ... | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:57 - Jan 23 with 1670 views | monytowbray |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:56 - Jan 23 by 26_Paz |
I think the point is, yes, we've done some bad but we've also done some good so we're about neutral in terms of overall impact ... |
Evidence? | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 14:00 - Jan 23 with 1667 views | BackToRussia |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:56 - Jan 23 by 26_Paz |
I think the point is, yes, we've done some bad but we've also done some good so we're about neutral in terms of overall impact ... |
How many good things do you have to do to expatiate the forced starvation of millions?
The ultimately good thing would have been not to do it. And any sane person would wish the British empire or any other empire, had never existed. [Post edited 23 Jan 2020 14:01]
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 14:02 - Jan 23 with 1667 views | Ftnfwest |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:19 - Jan 23 by ElephantintheRoom |
Same reason that 17 million can drag 58 million Brits out of the EU... 43% of the vote is a MASSIVE mandate from the british people etc. |
the same number would have kept us in |  | | |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 14:06 - Jan 23 with 1655 views | r2d2 |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:48 - Jan 23 by monytowbray |
Depends how willing you are to discuss the nuisances of our past behaviour and the ongoing impact that's had on the world.
There's a difference between history and patriotism. I find WWII fascinating, Nazis and all the grim stuff included. But I also acknowledge the Nazis were evil. |
We have done good and bad, but so have many other countries. We are no worse or better than them. | | | |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 14:08 - Jan 23 with 1653 views | BackToRussia |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 14:06 - Jan 23 by r2d2 |
We have done good and bad, but so have many other countries. We are no worse or better than them. |
Name these countries then. You will not be able to name more than 5. That's out of circa 200 modern nations. So we are clearly in the top 10 of sh1thouse murdering nations, probably top 5. That's being generous to the UK. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 14:24 - Jan 23 with 1634 views | 26_Paz |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:57 - Jan 23 by monytowbray |
Evidence? |
What evidence do you want? The UK has clearly done some good at some point in history. Even the harshest critic of this country, someone like Jeremy Corbyn, would find it hard to argue against us having done at least some good during the Second World War. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 14:37 - Jan 23 with 1618 views | Sikamikanico |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:01 - Jan 23 by Darth_Koont |
More that it's an outdated notion. Local pride I can understand as it's about community and identity. Similarly, minority pride that defends the rights of you and others like you.
National pride, beyond enjoying a sporting event, makes less and less sense in a modern world where cultures aren't homogenous at all. It's not bad in itself but it does frequently get in the way of acceptance of others, regional and local interests and cross-border cooperation which are all ultimately far more important concerns. So if ideas of nation and patriotism were always about serving those purposes then it would be great. |
On National Pride, this Bill Hicks quote sums up my views on it:
People ask me ‘are you proud to be an American?’ and I say ‘I don’t know, I didn’t have a lot to do with it. My parents f***ed there, that’s about all.’ I hate patriotism. I can’t stand it. It’s a round world last time I checked. |  | | |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 14:38 - Jan 23 with 1616 views | monytowbray |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 14:24 - Jan 23 by 26_Paz |
What evidence do you want? The UK has clearly done some good at some point in history. Even the harshest critic of this country, someone like Jeremy Corbyn, would find it hard to argue against us having done at least some good during the Second World War. |
I want examples of the good and how in your opinion they outweigh the bad.
It's not illogical to ask for evidence to back a statement. In fact in should be a basic standard but it seems we now live in a world where anyone can bleat an opinion and say it's fact. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 14:39 - Jan 23 with 1614 views | BackToRussia |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 14:24 - Jan 23 by 26_Paz |
What evidence do you want? The UK has clearly done some good at some point in history. Even the harshest critic of this country, someone like Jeremy Corbyn, would find it hard to argue against us having done at least some good during the Second World War. |
We fought the Nazis because our status as a world power was threatened, first and foremost. Humanitarian reasons came much, much later. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:18 - Jan 23 with 1604 views | factual_blue |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:45 - Jan 23 by r2d2 |
I love history. British and World. We have been no better or worse than any other country when it comes to history. I LOVE british history. Thats wrong is it? |
What about it do you love? | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:36 - Jan 23 with 1581 views | bazgammon |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 14:00 - Jan 23 by BackToRussia |
How many good things do you have to do to expatiate the forced starvation of millions?
The ultimately good thing would have been not to do it. And any sane person would wish the British empire or any other empire, had never existed. [Post edited 23 Jan 2020 14:01]
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It did. It wasn't great, but it was not all genocide and evil. Yes, countries were exploited but it did some good too like ending the transatlantic slave trade. Get over it, it happened. No need for your self loathing of your country. Stalin, Mao, killed millions of their own people but Iv'e never heard a Russian or Chinese say they were ashamed of their country's past. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:38 - Jan 23 with 1579 views | itfcjoe |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 14:08 - Jan 23 by BackToRussia |
Name these countries then. You will not be able to name more than 5. That's out of circa 200 modern nations. So we are clearly in the top 10 of sh1thouse murdering nations, probably top 5. That's being generous to the UK. |
Plus also the nation that has spread most good to the world with democracy, administration, helathcare, etc.
To write off Empire as bad full stop, is just as silly as saying it was all good - it's such a fundamental part of human history that the world wouldn't be as it is today without it |  |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:38 - Jan 23 with 1573 views | footers |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:36 - Jan 23 by bazgammon |
It did. It wasn't great, but it was not all genocide and evil. Yes, countries were exploited but it did some good too like ending the transatlantic slave trade. Get over it, it happened. No need for your self loathing of your country. Stalin, Mao, killed millions of their own people but Iv'e never heard a Russian or Chinese say they were ashamed of their country's past. |
Ending an evil practice you started can't really be chalked up as a net positive. |  |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:46 - Jan 23 with 1557 views | jeera |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:38 - Jan 23 by itfcjoe |
Plus also the nation that has spread most good to the world with democracy, administration, helathcare, etc.
To write off Empire as bad full stop, is just as silly as saying it was all good - it's such a fundamental part of human history that the world wouldn't be as it is today without it |
Forcing your own values onto other people cannot be considered 'good' under any circumstances.
We are all too ready to take credit for things that may have occurred naturally anyway, or otherwise may have taken a different path as equal to, if not better.
I don't hate my country, any more than I hate any other country, but I do think it pays to be realistic. |  |
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