| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. 12:28 - Jan 23 with 27749 views | monytowbray |
Is why many feel the need to assume what they think is patriotic or the opinion of the masses? Farage I regularly used to see referred as the man of the people. Tommy Robinson and Hopkins are regularly said to "just be saying what everyone's thinking" by the same folk.
Why do they feel the need to project their lack of values on everyone or claim it's the British thing to do? These people are far from a "majority", let alone a "silent" one if you spend 5 minutes reading the rubbish spouted on social media.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone equate a leftist idea as patriotic or something everyone believes deep down because to do so with any idea is nonsense, even if in the actual majority. I don't believe banning hunting is the British thing to do or something everyone thinks for example, even though you'd hard pressed to find many people who are pro-hunting next to the masses of people against it.
Eurgh. |  |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:47 - Jan 23 with 1633 views | 26_Paz |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 14:38 - Jan 23 by monytowbray |
I want examples of the good and how in your opinion they outweigh the bad.
It's not illogical to ask for evidence to back a statement. In fact in should be a basic standard but it seems we now live in a world where anyone can bleat an opinion and say it's fact. |
What evidence do you want? Where so you stop in your quest for evidence. If your neighbour says 'nice day today' do you request meteorological reports?
Some things are just common knowledge. The UK has done loads of good stuff, a normal person just knows this and doesn't need a link to a wikipedia article to prove it.
World war 2, the war in Serbia / Kosovo, taking in more than most in terms of refugees down the years are just a few examples. |  |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:49 - Jan 23 with 1633 views | GaryCooper |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:05 - Jan 23 by monytowbray |
Agree with that. It amazes me anyone can vote for their finances over the greater good bit from
11 years working full time I can see I’m in the minority there. Although I might just start saying my view is the “British way” and “Will of the people” to be ironically annoying :) |
'It amazes me anyone can vote for their finances over the greater good bit from'
Network rail would probably disagree with you. |  | | |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:49 - Jan 23 with 1633 views | itfcjoe |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:46 - Jan 23 by jeera |
Forcing your own values onto other people cannot be considered 'good' under any circumstances.
We are all too ready to take credit for things that may have occurred naturally anyway, or otherwise may have taken a different path as equal to, if not better.
I don't hate my country, any more than I hate any other country, but I do think it pays to be realistic. |
What if those values are much more enlightened and speed up the direction of travel?
Despite all the rubbish going on at the moment, I consider myself exceptionally lucky to be born English and proud of my country and it's place in the world. |  |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:50 - Jan 23 with 1628 views | matteoblue |
‘Left’ and ‘Right’ wing are problematic political terms as you clearly demonstrate. To use a basic description, right wing can be described as a desire (conserve) the institutions and culture of the country, and attempts to change those institutions are left wing desires. [Post edited 23 Jan 2020 15:55]
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| We are Premier League, say we are Premier League! |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:50 - Jan 23 with 1626 views | footers |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:46 - Jan 23 by jeera |
Forcing your own values onto other people cannot be considered 'good' under any circumstances.
We are all too ready to take credit for things that may have occurred naturally anyway, or otherwise may have taken a different path as equal to, if not better.
I don't hate my country, any more than I hate any other country, but I do think it pays to be realistic. |
Especially when introducing transport, administration etc were key to the exploitation of that nation and its resources, rather than intended for the population's benefit.
Let's also not forget that, like most colonial rulers, the British often set different factions against each other in order to gain control, as seen with the caste system in India and empowering of the Muslim minority over the Christian majority in Nigeria.
These actions have caused decades, if not centuries of bitter division and conflict ever since. |  |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:59 - Jan 23 with 1581 views | jeera |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:49 - Jan 23 by itfcjoe |
What if those values are much more enlightened and speed up the direction of travel?
Despite all the rubbish going on at the moment, I consider myself exceptionally lucky to be born English and proud of my country and it's place in the world. |
Enlightened?
I would consider anyone forcing their will onto others and then telling them it's for their own good a worrying thought process.
Again, under any circumstances.
You can 'proud' of your country without ignoring its history.
That goes for people of all nationalities - not only us. |  |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:59 - Jan 23 with 1577 views | itfcjoe |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:59 - Jan 23 by jeera |
Enlightened?
I would consider anyone forcing their will onto others and then telling them it's for their own good a worrying thought process.
Again, under any circumstances.
You can 'proud' of your country without ignoring its history.
That goes for people of all nationalities - not only us. |
I don't ignore it, I just have a different view on the Empire to you | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:02 - Jan 23 with 1570 views | Lord_Lucan |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:38 - Jan 23 by itfcjoe |
Plus also the nation that has spread most good to the world with democracy, administration, helathcare, etc.
To write off Empire as bad full stop, is just as silly as saying it was all good - it's such a fundamental part of human history that the world wouldn't be as it is today without it |
That's a very fair point you make Joe. and apologies if it's already been said as I haven't got the time or inclination to read the whole thing but generally those to the right of centre tend to be proud of their country and big it up while those to the left of centre tend to put it down and or look to highlight any historical negatives. |  |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:02 - Jan 23 with 1568 views | jeera |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:59 - Jan 23 by itfcjoe |
I don't ignore it, I just have a different view on the Empire to you |
I don't see how many sane views there can possibly be of any nation imposing itself on others, murdering their people and stealing their lands and property.
Again, I'm not responsible for it and I will not apologise to anyone for it.
But that doesn't mean it didn't happen.
See, also the French, Dutch, Portuguese, Irish, Spanish... | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:06 - Jan 23 with 1549 views | jeera |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:02 - Jan 23 by Lord_Lucan |
That's a very fair point you make Joe. and apologies if it's already been said as I haven't got the time or inclination to read the whole thing but generally those to the right of centre tend to be proud of their country and big it up while those to the left of centre tend to put it down and or look to highlight any historical negatives. |
But how about if you feel both things at the same time?
Surely it's normal to feel one whilst accepting the reality of the other.
I like my country, I adore its countryside, its language, its cuisine, culture.
I am also aware how those things came about, but that doesn't mean I have to not acknowledge how it happened nor feel a bit sorry for those who were chopped to bits by invading forces to make it happen.
And I certainly don't have to applaud it. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:08 - Jan 23 with 1542 views | Darth_Koont |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:50 - Jan 23 by matteoblue |
‘Left’ and ‘Right’ wing are problematic political terms as you clearly demonstrate. To use a basic description, right wing can be described as a desire (conserve) the institutions and culture of the country, and attempts to change those institutions are left wing desires. [Post edited 23 Jan 2020 15:55]
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As you say they're problematic terms but generally "modern" right-wingers now want to dismantle the physical institutions of state and prioritise personal liberty and opportunity instead.
Left-wingers now want to prop up the state as a defence of people's rights and to promote equality and justice.
On a related note, it should never be either or but the balance between the two that makes a country a great place to live. So it annoys me when right-wingers talk about equality in terms of"equality of opportunity". People have very different chances of taking those opportunities in the first place even if they're available to all and they can be hoovered upwards. This is just more individual liberty by a different name. |  |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:13 - Jan 23 with 1526 views | jeera |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:08 - Jan 23 by Darth_Koont |
As you say they're problematic terms but generally "modern" right-wingers now want to dismantle the physical institutions of state and prioritise personal liberty and opportunity instead.
Left-wingers now want to prop up the state as a defence of people's rights and to promote equality and justice.
On a related note, it should never be either or but the balance between the two that makes a country a great place to live. So it annoys me when right-wingers talk about equality in terms of"equality of opportunity". People have very different chances of taking those opportunities in the first place even if they're available to all and they can be hoovered upwards. This is just more individual liberty by a different name. |
Always good to see some of the wealthy doing their best to do the right thing too:
https://news.sky.com/story/simon-pegg-tax-millionaires-more-to-tackle-inequality
Sorry for the Sky link Facters. It was the first link to show up and I couldn't be bothered to look about. [Post edited 23 Jan 2020 16:13]
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:14 - Jan 23 with 1524 views | BackToRussia |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:38 - Jan 23 by itfcjoe |
Plus also the nation that has spread most good to the world with democracy, administration, helathcare, etc.
To write off Empire as bad full stop, is just as silly as saying it was all good - it's such a fundamental part of human history that the world wouldn't be as it is today without it |
It doesn't surprise me that you think that. It's an intellectual game you're playing. I choose not to dismiss illegal invasions, slavery, forced starvation and economic exploitation just because we set up a few hospitals and made the Indians hold elections.
Just like I refuse to condone the illegal war in Iraq which killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians because Tony Blair won a few elections for the red team.
Have some fooking principles. All of you. |  |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:16 - Jan 23 with 1516 views | BackToRussia |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:47 - Jan 23 by 26_Paz |
What evidence do you want? Where so you stop in your quest for evidence. If your neighbour says 'nice day today' do you request meteorological reports?
Some things are just common knowledge. The UK has done loads of good stuff, a normal person just knows this and doesn't need a link to a wikipedia article to prove it.
World war 2, the war in Serbia / Kosovo, taking in more than most in terms of refugees down the years are just a few examples. |
What about the Jewish refugees it refused in Wwii? They ended up being gassed. Blood on our hands.
Are you going to own that or not? | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:17 - Jan 23 with 1512 views | jeera |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:16 - Jan 23 by BackToRussia |
What about the Jewish refugees it refused in Wwii? They ended up being gassed. Blood on our hands.
Are you going to own that or not? |
I looked at his post and couldn't even be bothered.
Where do you even start? | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:18 - Jan 23 with 1508 views | BackToRussia |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:17 - Jan 23 by jeera |
I looked at his post and couldn't even be bothered.
Where do you even start? |
The loads of good stuff consisting of fighting a war that Russia won, and a dodgy bombing campaign in Serbia. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:21 - Jan 23 with 1492 views | monytowbray |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:49 - Jan 23 by GaryCooper |
'It amazes me anyone can vote for their finances over the greater good bit from'
Network rail would probably disagree with you. |
It's not my fault you fundamentally can't understand how the rail network's economic model works. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:22 - Jan 23 with 1485 views | jeera |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:18 - Jan 23 by BackToRussia |
The loads of good stuff consisting of fighting a war that Russia won, and a dodgy bombing campaign in Serbia. |
The campaigns over the years to 'allow' fleeing refugees here.
With plenty in Parliament preferring to let them die instead of "taking them in" as he claims.
See WW2. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:23 - Jan 23 with 1483 views | monytowbray |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:47 - Jan 23 by 26_Paz |
What evidence do you want? Where so you stop in your quest for evidence. If your neighbour says 'nice day today' do you request meteorological reports?
Some things are just common knowledge. The UK has done loads of good stuff, a normal person just knows this and doesn't need a link to a wikipedia article to prove it.
World war 2, the war in Serbia / Kosovo, taking in more than most in terms of refugees down the years are just a few examples. |
I mean, it's your argument. Not mine. You make your case and we can agree/disagree/discuss. That's how intelligent debate works mate. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:24 - Jan 23 with 1479 views | jeera |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:23 - Jan 23 by monytowbray |
I mean, it's your argument. Not mine. You make your case and we can agree/disagree/discuss. That's how intelligent debate works mate. |
Actually, I have to admit, this made me smile:
" If your neighbour says 'nice day today' do you request meteorological reports?" | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:27 - Jan 23 with 1468 views | Lord_Lucan |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:49 - Jan 23 by GaryCooper |
'It amazes me anyone can vote for their finances over the greater good bit from'
Network rail would probably disagree with you. |
Sod those piffly veterans railcards, I want a Callis one. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:27 - Jan 23 with 1468 views | monytowbray |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:36 - Jan 23 by bazgammon |
It did. It wasn't great, but it was not all genocide and evil. Yes, countries were exploited but it did some good too like ending the transatlantic slave trade. Get over it, it happened. No need for your self loathing of your country. Stalin, Mao, killed millions of their own people but Iv'e never heard a Russian or Chinese say they were ashamed of their country's past. |
So if I shat on your coffee table, kept doing it every day for a month, and then in the end decided to clean it up would you be okay with that?
Also, if your mate said he kept sh1ting on someone's coffee table for a month but has since stopped, would you tell your mate he should still be proud of himself for sh1tting on said coffee table?
Literally nothing but denial in this post. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:28 - Jan 23 with 1464 views | monytowbray |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:27 - Jan 23 by Lord_Lucan |
Sod those piffly veterans railcards, I want a Callis one. |
I offer free training ;) | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:29 - Jan 23 with 1460 views | monytowbray |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:24 - Jan 23 by jeera |
Actually, I have to admit, this made me smile:
" If your neighbour says 'nice day today' do you request meteorological reports?" |
As funny as it is, we are talking stuff that's been discussed at great length by experts over considerable evidence. The time my neighbour said hello to me hasn't :) | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:30 - Jan 23 with 1456 views | StokieBlue |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:18 - Jan 23 by BackToRussia |
The loads of good stuff consisting of fighting a war that Russia won, and a dodgy bombing campaign in Serbia. |
A slight aside but what was the issue with the NATO action in Serbia?
There was literally ethnic cleansing going on.
SB |  |
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