| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing 20:58 - Jan 24 with 4114 views | Terra_Farma |
Communism. |  | | |  |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:05 - Jan 24 with 2394 views | BlueBadger |
So, taking this to its logical conclusion, you're presumably cool with nazis? |  |
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| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:11 - Jan 24 with 2379 views | mos |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:05 - Jan 24 by BlueBadger |
So, taking this to its logical conclusion, you're presumably cool with nazis? |
The worst communist regimes that this world has seen have been more horrific than the Nazi regime that occurred in Germany, IMO.
The Nazi regime grabs the headlines for the worst radical movement, yet there have been some dreadful communist regimes that were arguably worse for mankind. |  |
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| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:15 - Jan 24 with 2363 views | Darth_Koont |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:11 - Jan 24 by mos |
The worst communist regimes that this world has seen have been more horrific than the Nazi regime that occurred in Germany, IMO.
The Nazi regime grabs the headlines for the worst radical movement, yet there have been some dreadful communist regimes that were arguably worse for mankind. |
The most tw@ttish game of Top Trumps ever. |  |
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| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:18 - Jan 24 with 2349 views | mos |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:15 - Jan 24 by Darth_Koont |
The most tw@ttish game of Top Trumps ever. |
It would be a tough job leading the marketing team for a Top Trumps card game for the ‘worst radical movements the world has ever seen’, in fairness. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:18 - Jan 24 with 2346 views | Darth_Koont |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:18 - Jan 24 by mos |
It would be a tough job leading the marketing team for a Top Trumps card game for the ‘worst radical movements the world has ever seen’, in fairness. |
You’ve got the job. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:30 - Jan 24 with 2316 views | Guthrum |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:11 - Jan 24 by mos |
The worst communist regimes that this world has seen have been more horrific than the Nazi regime that occurred in Germany, IMO.
The Nazi regime grabs the headlines for the worst radical movement, yet there have been some dreadful communist regimes that were arguably worse for mankind. |
I'd disagree on your first sentence. After all, even the acts of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia (the deliberate, official degradation and extermination of a section of the populace, including political opponents) are no worse than those of the Nazis (the above, plus launching an expansionist war which led to many millions of deaths and the oppression of an entire continent). The only thing which mitigates the Nazi horror is the relatively short duration of their rule. Imagine the destruction if they'd lasted as long as the Soviet Union.
Authoritarian governments of whatever stamp tend to be pretty similar in the way they operate and the terror they inflict.
Communism was at least originally proposed as a generally benign philosophy to improve the lot of the workers in industrialised society. Unlike Nazism, which, from the start, was racist, anti-semitic, vicious, militaristic and expansionist. [Post edited 24 Jan 2020 21:33]
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| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:31 - Jan 24 with 2311 views | Terra_Farma |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:05 - Jan 24 by BlueBadger |
So, taking this to its logical conclusion, you're presumably cool with nazis? |
Logical conclusion?
I wasn't going to waste my time responding to your post but give yourself a dry slap, take a look in the mirror and have a word with yourself.
Pitiful. | | | |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:31 - Jan 24 with 2311 views | Oldsmoker |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:11 - Jan 24 by mos |
The worst communist regimes that this world has seen have been more horrific than the Nazi regime that occurred in Germany, IMO.
The Nazi regime grabs the headlines for the worst radical movement, yet there have been some dreadful communist regimes that were arguably worse for mankind. |
If we put the atocities, genocide, concentration camps, toture, sadistic secret services aside for a moment - who had the best uniforms?
The Nazis got the UK Royal Family seal of approval viz Harry. |  |
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| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:32 - Jan 24 with 2301 views | Terra_Farma |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:30 - Jan 24 by Guthrum |
I'd disagree on your first sentence. After all, even the acts of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia (the deliberate, official degradation and extermination of a section of the populace, including political opponents) are no worse than those of the Nazis (the above, plus launching an expansionist war which led to many millions of deaths and the oppression of an entire continent). The only thing which mitigates the Nazi horror is the relatively short duration of their rule. Imagine the destruction if they'd lasted as long as the Soviet Union.
Authoritarian governments of whatever stamp tend to be pretty similar in the way they operate and the terror they inflict.
Communism was at least originally proposed as a generally benign philosophy to improve the lot of the workers in industrialised society. Unlike Nazism, which, from the start, was racist, anti-semitic, vicious, militaristic and expansionist. [Post edited 24 Jan 2020 21:33]
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Mao Zedong | | | |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:34 - Jan 24 with 2292 views | Darth_Koont |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:31 - Jan 24 by Terra_Farma |
Logical conclusion?
I wasn't going to waste my time responding to your post but give yourself a dry slap, take a look in the mirror and have a word with yourself.
Pitiful. |
Good work Badge.
One reply and he’s trolled himself. Must be a record. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:34 - Jan 24 with 2288 views | Bluedandy |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:05 - Jan 24 by BlueBadger |
So, taking this to its logical conclusion, you're presumably cool with nazis? |
Nazis and commies are 2 sides of the same coin | | | |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:41 - Jan 24 with 2262 views | Guthrum |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:32 - Jan 24 by Terra_Farma |
Mao Zedong |
Again, he may have caused the deaths of more people - but not by that much, when you include the casualties from Hitler's war - however, he was also in power for over a quarter of a century (and controlled large swathes of the country for a decade or more before that. He didn't promote any policy of genocide, unlike the Nazis.
Not saying he was anything but exceedingly unpleasant, murderous and hugely destructive (mostly to China itself). But was he worse than Hitler, or just pretty much the same? | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:43 - Jan 24 with 2245 views | Churchman |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:31 - Jan 24 by Oldsmoker |
If we put the atocities, genocide, concentration camps, toture, sadistic secret services aside for a moment - who had the best uniforms?
The Nazis got the UK Royal Family seal of approval viz Harry. |
They were designed by Hugo Boss. [Post edited 24 Jan 2020 21:45]
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| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:44 - Jan 24 with 2242 views | Terra_Farma |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:34 - Jan 24 by Darth_Koont |
Good work Badge.
One reply and he’s trolled himself. Must be a record. |
Thanks pumpkin
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| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:46 - Jan 24 with 2219 views | Darth_Koont |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:44 - Jan 24 by Terra_Farma |
Thanks pumpkin
x |
No probs.
Just make sure you get some ointment for your @rse. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:56 - Jan 24 with 2189 views | Terra_Farma |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:41 - Jan 24 by Guthrum |
Again, he may have caused the deaths of more people - but not by that much, when you include the casualties from Hitler's war - however, he was also in power for over a quarter of a century (and controlled large swathes of the country for a decade or more before that. He didn't promote any policy of genocide, unlike the Nazis.
Not saying he was anything but exceedingly unpleasant, murderous and hugely destructive (mostly to China itself). But was he worse than Hitler, or just pretty much the same? |
Starvation is a deliberate policy Guthrum, how can time be a measurement of pure evil? | | | |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:58 - Jan 24 with 2179 views | Terra_Farma |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:46 - Jan 24 by Darth_Koont |
No probs.
Just make sure you get some ointment for your @rse. |
Will do, thanks for looking out for me. It's appreciated
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| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 22:11 - Jan 24 with 2150 views | factual_blue |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:31 - Jan 24 by Oldsmoker |
If we put the atocities, genocide, concentration camps, toture, sadistic secret services aside for a moment - who had the best uniforms?
The Nazis got the UK Royal Family seal of approval viz Harry. |
And the Queen's in-laws were married to them. |  |
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| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 22:12 - Jan 24 with 2152 views | Guthrum |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:56 - Jan 24 by Terra_Farma |
Starvation is a deliberate policy Guthrum, how can time be a measurement of pure evil? |
It wasn't a cold, deliberate extermination policy in the same way as the Holocaust. Mao merely didn't care if it was a side effect of what he wanted to do (e.g. take an entire province's food supplies for use elsewhere). Much the same as Stalin with the Holodomor. No less evil, but no more so, either.
If damage and deaths are to be a measure of evil, then the time available to perpetrate them is a significant factor. How many more would Hitler have killed if he'd lasted over a decade longer? | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 22:13 - Jan 24 with 2142 views | footers |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:56 - Jan 24 by Terra_Farma |
Starvation is a deliberate policy Guthrum, how can time be a measurement of pure evil? |
Just playing devil's avocado, but can you put a rough guesstimate on the billions capitalism has killed?
No rush. |  |
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| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 22:14 - Jan 24 with 2129 views | vapour_trail |
No customers tonight, Terry? |  |
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| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 22:18 - Jan 24 with 2127 views | jeera |
Already looking forward to your paper on it.
Although there is more to Communism than simply studying Marx and Engels and even Lenin, these will no doubt be works you are more than familiar with.
I'm hoping you can fill in the gaps for me and spell out the nuances when it comes to Communism, Marxism and Socialism, as well as the issues you have with each. |  |
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| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 22:18 - Jan 24 with 2122 views | factual_blue |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:41 - Jan 24 by Guthrum |
Again, he may have caused the deaths of more people - but not by that much, when you include the casualties from Hitler's war - however, he was also in power for over a quarter of a century (and controlled large swathes of the country for a decade or more before that. He didn't promote any policy of genocide, unlike the Nazis.
Not saying he was anything but exceedingly unpleasant, murderous and hugely destructive (mostly to China itself). But was he worse than Hitler, or just pretty much the same? |
Mao's administration is seen I think as more incompetent than malicious.
Also both China and Russia historically were autocracies; the Russian Czars and Chinese Emperors were little different to their 20th Century successors. That might be because Russians and Chinese people simply expect government to be like that, or because both ended with feudalistic regimes relatively recently, and the journey to Western-style democracy takes a long time and can't be introduced quickly.
Barrington Moore Jr's The Social Origins of Dictatorship and Democracy is an interesting if flawed examination of this thesis. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 22:38 - Jan 24 with 2079 views | Guthrum |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 22:18 - Jan 24 by factual_blue |
Mao's administration is seen I think as more incompetent than malicious.
Also both China and Russia historically were autocracies; the Russian Czars and Chinese Emperors were little different to their 20th Century successors. That might be because Russians and Chinese people simply expect government to be like that, or because both ended with feudalistic regimes relatively recently, and the journey to Western-style democracy takes a long time and can't be introduced quickly.
Barrington Moore Jr's The Social Origins of Dictatorship and Democracy is an interesting if flawed examination of this thesis. |
I'd put Mao a bit beyond that. Yes, his regime was grossly incompetent (e.g. the steel production fiasco), but it wasn't that he was personally ignorant of the human consequences, so much that he really didn't care if they lived or died.
Indeed, it seems he wan't really concerned about the welfare of anyone apart from himself.
There was a good radio series on Russia a few years ago which addressed the autocracy concept. It pointed out that when Russia did not have a strong man (or woman) in charge, e.g. Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, Stalin, they were often undermined or overrun and oppressed by their neighbours. More recently, Yeltsin was a feeble disaster, while Putin has to some extent restore their position on the world stage.
China has a similar history in the 19th and 20th centuries, constantly beaten up by colonial powers, for several decades shattered into pieces. Mao's communists at least reunified the nation and got it up off its knees internationally. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 22:42 - Jan 24 with 2070 views | mos |
| One thing that's really bugged me about the left wing on 21:30 - Jan 24 by Guthrum |
I'd disagree on your first sentence. After all, even the acts of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia (the deliberate, official degradation and extermination of a section of the populace, including political opponents) are no worse than those of the Nazis (the above, plus launching an expansionist war which led to many millions of deaths and the oppression of an entire continent). The only thing which mitigates the Nazi horror is the relatively short duration of their rule. Imagine the destruction if they'd lasted as long as the Soviet Union.
Authoritarian governments of whatever stamp tend to be pretty similar in the way they operate and the terror they inflict.
Communism was at least originally proposed as a generally benign philosophy to improve the lot of the workers in industrialised society. Unlike Nazism, which, from the start, was racist, anti-semitic, vicious, militaristic and expansionist. [Post edited 24 Jan 2020 21:33]
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Pol Pot’s leadership of the Khmer Rouge was clearly dreadful, with the wiping out of 1/3rd of the population, along with the 20-25 million people killed under Stalin’s Soviet Union due to his Five Year Plans to industrialise the Soviet Union, and inducing the Great Terror... Although communism is built in the roots of worker rights and equality, industry was still put before the people, as made clear by the famines in the Soviet Union.
There were, as you said, anti-semitic elements to the founding of the Nazi party, but it was really the workers’ socialism elements that founded the Nazis early beginnings. I think it was only when Hitler became chancellor and pursued his policy of Gleichschaltung that Germany became a fascist state. Many people joined the Nazi party due to their promising work schemes, combatting of communists in the streets and powerful propaganda that motivated and gave belief to Germans that Hitler could save Germany from the economic crisis that they had found themselves in from the Wall St Crash of 1929. It is important to add that Hitler’s violent attempt at a revolt in 1923, the ‘Beer Hall Putsch’, failed to gain any traction and was crushed quickly, suggesting that his violent ways did not generate enough support and that it was only until the economic depression where people seek radical movements for what they can bring for them.
But I am sure Hitler held the views he is known for even in the early 1920s, my argument is that the Nazi party was not entirely founded upon anti-semitism.
It’s all up for interpretation, but interestingly it does raise and support the horseshoe political spectrum theory, where far-right and far-left idealogies are not as far as they seem on a linear spectrum, both sharing similar traits in the form of authoritarianism rule and totalitarianism. Mussolini began his political career as a Socialist, working for the socialist newspaper ‘Avanti!’ as an editor, yet became the first Fascist leader of the modern world! | |
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