| Ridiculous from the Tories 10:23 - Jan 30 with 6866 views | StokieBlue |
Building the largest gas power station in Europe is not the way to show the world we are serious about cutting emissions. Sure it's better than coal but given the wealth of renewables around the UK it seems the wrong direction to me.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/30/uk-sued-for-approving-europe
"The plant, being developed by Drax in north Yorkshire, would become the biggest gas power station in Europe and could produce 75% of the UK’s power sector emissions when fully operational"
We need a nationalised renewable energy company which will design, build and install solutions, providing jobs and keeping money inside the UK.
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| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:27 - Jan 30 with 4021 views | No9 |
It would not have been so daft had not Cameron / Osborn cancelled 'White Rose'
& the future of UK gas supplies are not assured which is why so much gas is being imported despite the fact we are apying over the odds for it |  | | |
| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:28 - Jan 30 with 4008 views | chicoazul |
Who cares about showing the world anything? We are not an important or influential country at all. Still, I do think building this plant and presumably importing the gas from elsewhere is completely mad when we have loads of coal and could build nuclear. |  |
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| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:29 - Jan 30 with 4001 views | Swansea_Blue |
Highly predictable. The oil and gas industriy are big lobbiests, funding some of the pressure group 'think tanks' around Westminster, and big donators to the party coffers. We've the largest oil and gas subsidies in the EU, whislt at the same time cutting schemes to encourage uptake of renewables.
This was always going to be the direction of travel, and will remain so. It'll make a positive change in the short term, as you say. But isn't where we should be going.
Green deal and major infrasrtructure building around that was on the table in the last GE, but the country overwhelming rejected it sadly. |  |
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| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:30 - Jan 30 with 4000 views | GaryCooper |
There are plenty of gas and diesel power stations being built in the UK right now, if not the lights will go out. |  | | |
| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:31 - Jan 30 with 3987 views | StokieBlue |
| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:28 - Jan 30 by chicoazul |
Who cares about showing the world anything? We are not an important or influential country at all. Still, I do think building this plant and presumably importing the gas from elsewhere is completely mad when we have loads of coal and could build nuclear. |
All countries are influential in their own way. If we want others to reduce their emissions we can't ask that from a position of increasing our own (I know your views on China in this regard).
Totally agree that a combination of baseline nuclear with intermittent renewables should be the way we are powering the country. The real shame is that we haven't retained the expertise to build our own nuclear power stations. A truly depressing fact given we opened the first large scale nuclear power station in 1956.
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| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:33 - Jan 30 with 3979 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Surely it's good? The quicker we burn everyone else's gas the less anyone else can use it.... and all the time staying within our fab targets which will of course save the world.
Remember wind farms cannot be used when it is too windy and solar is a tad weather dependent too.... all you young 'uns will be needing something to power your right-on electric cars | |
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| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:34 - Jan 30 with 3978 views | chicoazul |
| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:31 - Jan 30 by StokieBlue |
All countries are influential in their own way. If we want others to reduce their emissions we can't ask that from a position of increasing our own (I know your views on China in this regard).
Totally agree that a combination of baseline nuclear with intermittent renewables should be the way we are powering the country. The real shame is that we haven't retained the expertise to build our own nuclear power stations. A truly depressing fact given we opened the first large scale nuclear power station in 1956.
SB |
The myth of British exceptionalism rears its' head again. Nobody cares about what we do.
I read something quickly the other day about Rolls Royce building mini nuke generators for everyone's back garden or something the other day, is there much in that do you think? | |
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| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:38 - Jan 30 with 3956 views | Guthrum |
The biggest problem with renewables currently is intermittency. When the wind doesn't blow or the sun shine, little or no power flows into the system.
Unless and until we have large-scale, effective energy storage systems capable of taking up the slack at short notice, we have to rely on more traditional methods to bridge the gaps. There is no choice on this matter. |  |
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| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:42 - Jan 30 with 3924 views | StokieBlue |
| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:34 - Jan 30 by chicoazul |
The myth of British exceptionalism rears its' head again. Nobody cares about what we do.
I read something quickly the other day about Rolls Royce building mini nuke generators for everyone's back garden or something the other day, is there much in that do you think? |
That's basically the opposite of what I said. I didn't mention the UK specifically, I said any country can make their case. Plenty of people cite Scandinavian countries for things they do for instance.
I've not heard that and I don't think it's possible to have a contained reaction on that scale with current technology. What is available (and being worked on more) are reactors about the size of a shipping container which would be provided as a sealed unit and probably buried to provide decentralised power.
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| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:43 - Jan 30 with 3920 views | StokieBlue |
| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:38 - Jan 30 by Guthrum |
The biggest problem with renewables currently is intermittency. When the wind doesn't blow or the sun shine, little or no power flows into the system.
Unless and until we have large-scale, effective energy storage systems capable of taking up the slack at short notice, we have to rely on more traditional methods to bridge the gaps. There is no choice on this matter. |
Indeed.
Hence I cited nuclear for baseline energy and renewables for intermittent. It's the only viable low-carbon solution we have.
Huge new gas plants don't need to be part of the equation.
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| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:43 - Jan 30 with 3921 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:34 - Jan 30 by chicoazul |
The myth of British exceptionalism rears its' head again. Nobody cares about what we do.
I read something quickly the other day about Rolls Royce building mini nuke generators for everyone's back garden or something the other day, is there much in that do you think? |
"Nobody cares about what we do".... and then mentions Rolls Royce.
That's a case in point - we can be exceptional is some things. As for renewables, we were a world leader in biofules before government policy changes when the coalition came in , and our significant innovator companies cleared off to America. We're apparenlty a world leader in offshore wind too. | |
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| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:49 - Jan 30 with 3896 views | GeoffSentence |
| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:42 - Jan 30 by StokieBlue |
That's basically the opposite of what I said. I didn't mention the UK specifically, I said any country can make their case. Plenty of people cite Scandinavian countries for things they do for instance.
I've not heard that and I don't think it's possible to have a contained reaction on that scale with current technology. What is available (and being worked on more) are reactors about the size of a shipping container which would be provided as a sealed unit and probably buried to provide decentralised power.
SB |
Small scale nuclear as an idea has been about for some time, not on the scale of indivdual back yards but on a neighbourhood one or two dotted around Ipswich for instance.
It should certainly be feasible, there is already small scale marine nuclear technology, think nuclear powered subs and aircraft carriers. I am not sure why the technology has not made it into civilian life yet, but there are companies actively looking at it. |  |
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| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:49 - Jan 30 with 3890 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
...and back in the real world where these things take a decade to get off the ground... |  |
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| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:50 - Jan 30 with 3890 views | chicoazul |
| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:43 - Jan 30 by Swansea_Blue |
"Nobody cares about what we do".... and then mentions Rolls Royce.
That's a case in point - we can be exceptional is some things. As for renewables, we were a world leader in biofules before government policy changes when the coalition came in , and our significant innovator companies cleared off to America. We're apparenlty a world leader in offshore wind too. |
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| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:50 - Jan 30 with 3891 views | Guthrum |
| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:43 - Jan 30 by StokieBlue |
Indeed.
Hence I cited nuclear for baseline energy and renewables for intermittent. It's the only viable low-carbon solution we have.
Huge new gas plants don't need to be part of the equation.
SB |
Nuclear is vastly more expensive, slower to build and politically controversial (c.f. Hinkley Point C). Expanding Drax may be all we can really afford. | |
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| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:52 - Jan 30 with 3873 views | Guthrum |
| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:49 - Jan 30 by GeoffSentence |
Small scale nuclear as an idea has been about for some time, not on the scale of indivdual back yards but on a neighbourhood one or two dotted around Ipswich for instance.
It should certainly be feasible, there is already small scale marine nuclear technology, think nuclear powered subs and aircraft carriers. I am not sure why the technology has not made it into civilian life yet, but there are companies actively looking at it. |
Heard something about that recently:
https://renews.biz/57620/rolls-royce-to-roll-out-mini-reactors-in-a-decade/ | |
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| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:53 - Jan 30 with 3874 views | chicoazul |
| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:42 - Jan 30 by StokieBlue |
That's basically the opposite of what I said. I didn't mention the UK specifically, I said any country can make their case. Plenty of people cite Scandinavian countries for things they do for instance.
I've not heard that and I don't think it's possible to have a contained reaction on that scale with current technology. What is available (and being worked on more) are reactors about the size of a shipping container which would be provided as a sealed unit and probably buried to provide decentralised power.
SB |
Well that's just it, people "cite" Scandanavia, but China Mexico Brazil Indonesia and India arent exactly racing to be Scandanavian. It's just talk. Totally pointless, just like us lecturing 2bn people about not to use coal.
This is the article I read; https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51233444 | |
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| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:56 - Jan 30 with 3855 views | StokieBlue |
| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:49 - Jan 30 by GeoffSentence |
Small scale nuclear as an idea has been about for some time, not on the scale of indivdual back yards but on a neighbourhood one or two dotted around Ipswich for instance.
It should certainly be feasible, there is already small scale marine nuclear technology, think nuclear powered subs and aircraft carriers. I am not sure why the technology has not made it into civilian life yet, but there are companies actively looking at it. |
I don't think many people know that there was a small marine nuclear reactor in Greenwich up until 1996.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JASON_reactor
The Russians have small devices available for commercial purposes but I think Western countries have been worried about distributing them too widely. It's likely to happen though as a seal unit.
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| Ridiculous from the Tories on 11:08 - Jan 30 with 3820 views | StokieBlue |
| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:53 - Jan 30 by chicoazul |
Well that's just it, people "cite" Scandanavia, but China Mexico Brazil Indonesia and India arent exactly racing to be Scandanavian. It's just talk. Totally pointless, just like us lecturing 2bn people about not to use coal.
This is the article I read; https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51233444 |
But with that attitude historically nothing would have ever changed in any subject. By creating an example you at least give yourselves the opportunity to try and influence.
Thanks for the article. That is absolutely possible as the reactors themselves are fairly large at 1.5 acres. Other companies are working on much smaller and fully contained units but this RR plan is scaled down power stations. It's probably a very good idea to build many smaller and distributed reactors rather than a couple of huge ones.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Ridiculous from the Tories on 11:29 - Jan 30 with 3786 views | Radlett_blue |
So, more nuclear power stations, then? |  |
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| Ridiculous from the Tories on 13:58 - Jan 30 with 3695 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| Ridiculous from the Tories on 10:38 - Jan 30 by Guthrum |
The biggest problem with renewables currently is intermittency. When the wind doesn't blow or the sun shine, little or no power flows into the system.
Unless and until we have large-scale, effective energy storage systems capable of taking up the slack at short notice, we have to rely on more traditional methods to bridge the gaps. There is no choice on this matter. |
We should get some gigantic electric fans and put one in front of each wind turbine for when the weather is calm. |  |
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| Ridiculous from the Tories on 14:25 - Jan 30 with 3662 views | r2d2 |
If you cant get the USA, China and India on board over climate change, then there really is no point in worrying, because nothing will change. |  | | |
| Ridiculous from the Tories on 14:28 - Jan 30 with 3648 views | GaryCooper |
| Ridiculous from the Tories on 14:25 - Jan 30 by r2d2 |
If you cant get the USA, China and India on board over climate change, then there really is no point in worrying, because nothing will change. |
'If you cant get the USA, China and India on board over climate change, then there really is no point in worrying, because nothing will change.'
Except the climate? | | | |
| Ridiculous from the Tories on 14:35 - Jan 30 with 3628 views | JakeITFC |
I won’t get too involved as I have a very vested interest, but Drax plan to be carbon negative by 2030, including building this gas plant.
The balance of carbon v actually having enough electricity to keep the lights on has to be considered. |  | | |
| Ridiculous from the Tories on 14:41 - Jan 30 with 3609 views | StokieBlue |
| Ridiculous from the Tories on 14:35 - Jan 30 by JakeITFC |
I won’t get too involved as I have a very vested interest, but Drax plan to be carbon negative by 2030, including building this gas plant.
The balance of carbon v actually having enough electricity to keep the lights on has to be considered. |
How?
The articles I've read have said they could add carbon capture in the future but that's carbon neutral at best.
Unless the plan is to buy gas from abroad and an unknown cost and offset the emissions with some trees.
There is keeping the lights which I agree with and then there is building the biggest gas power station in Europe alongside an existing number of projects.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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