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That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing 16:15 - Feb 7 with 2474 viewsfactual_blue

Eloquent destruction of amber rudd by a UC claimant.

'I googled amber rudd last night. She's bought her daughter a £3m flat, and has a library and a wine cellar. What can she know about people like me?'

(The UC claimant was a 48 year old single mother. She'd had to give up work to care for her mother, who had now either died or gone into care. The claimant was going to be getting just over £900 a month for herself and her two children. From that she would have to pay £455 a month rent.)

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That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 16:27 - Feb 7 with 2434 viewsbrazil1982

There seems to be an awful number of absent fathers, or at least fathers who are not contributing financially. I guess this only adds to the pressure. What happened to the CSA?
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That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 16:41 - Feb 7 with 2418 viewsDarth_Koont

Isn't that the Big Society in a nutshell? People being forced to take care of their parents, raise kids and therefore need support from the state themselves.

It's so short-term and narrow. If the state supported the right parts then that single mother could easily be a net contributor to society and the economy. It already sounds like she's doing a massive job.

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That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 18:03 - Feb 7 with 2369 viewsfactual_blue

That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 16:27 - Feb 7 by brazil1982

There seems to be an awful number of absent fathers, or at least fathers who are not contributing financially. I guess this only adds to the pressure. What happened to the CSA?


That detail of the single mother wasn't revealed. It's perfectly possible, of course, that she was single due to bereavement. If she were bereaved before she was forty-five, she wouldn't qualify for any weekly bereavement benefits.

The CSA continues, but was appallingly constructed by John Major's government, and has never recovered.

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That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 18:37 - Feb 7 with 2330 viewsSwansea_Blue

That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 16:41 - Feb 7 by Darth_Koont

Isn't that the Big Society in a nutshell? People being forced to take care of their parents, raise kids and therefore need support from the state themselves.

It's so short-term and narrow. If the state supported the right parts then that single mother could easily be a net contributor to society and the economy. It already sounds like she's doing a massive job.


The counter argument that we should be looking after our own families is pretty strong. It’s what we always had to do and it’s still normally in many countries. But times change too. It’s not so easy combine caring with more people turning into wage slaves. And family networks are increasingly dispersed (often job related again).

I don’t know what the answer is. I work with a single parent of a young child who’s also a career for an older relative. She finds it ridiculously tough to survive from one week to the next even though she’s working.

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That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 18:38 - Feb 7 with 2327 viewssparks

That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 16:27 - Feb 7 by brazil1982

There seems to be an awful number of absent fathers, or at least fathers who are not contributing financially. I guess this only adds to the pressure. What happened to the CSA?


If the absent parent (and it aint just fathers- time we stopped letting our language smuggle that assumption in) is on benefits or low wages, the CSA doesnt achieve much.

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That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 19:16 - Feb 7 with 2282 viewsjeera

That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 18:38 - Feb 7 by sparks

If the absent parent (and it aint just fathers- time we stopped letting our language smuggle that assumption in) is on benefits or low wages, the CSA doesnt achieve much.


Assumptions are still always made aren't they.

I am still unable to work and I hate it, yet I have had people say to me sometimes, "But you do get those who don't want to work don't you?"

Wtf does that have to do with me?

I've done 30 years so far and fully intend to do another 15 if I can get the damned opportunity.

People can't wait to judge without knowing eff-all.

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That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 19:27 - Feb 7 with 2264 viewsPendejo

Didn't see all the programme, but from what I did see....

The 48 year old single mother - that was pretty grim - but weirdly one of my thoughts was.... she's got a better sofa than I have.

It it completely and utterly wrong to pay them [claimants as a whole] the rent and expect them to pay the landlord. Many people may well be on benefits for reasons that undermine their ability to reason logically [alcoholics will just see extra beer tokens for example]

But what about the fella in the camouflage jacket? When offered a work placement he was almost insulted, yet had been on benefits for how long?

About 10 years or so ago I employed a lady who had been unemployed for a few years with no-one giving her a chance, she passed our aptitude tests and after a few years got herself a better job.

The counter to this was a fella I employed who was told from the off that working for us is not 9 to 5 Mon to Fri, he'd been unemployed for a number of years and in interview made a compelling case to employ him then, after a week of training quit as it wasn't mon-fri... I wonder if he even signed himself off.

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That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 19:30 - Feb 7 with 2258 viewsjeera

That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 19:27 - Feb 7 by Pendejo

Didn't see all the programme, but from what I did see....

The 48 year old single mother - that was pretty grim - but weirdly one of my thoughts was.... she's got a better sofa than I have.

It it completely and utterly wrong to pay them [claimants as a whole] the rent and expect them to pay the landlord. Many people may well be on benefits for reasons that undermine their ability to reason logically [alcoholics will just see extra beer tokens for example]

But what about the fella in the camouflage jacket? When offered a work placement he was almost insulted, yet had been on benefits for how long?

About 10 years or so ago I employed a lady who had been unemployed for a few years with no-one giving her a chance, she passed our aptitude tests and after a few years got herself a better job.

The counter to this was a fella I employed who was told from the off that working for us is not 9 to 5 Mon to Fri, he'd been unemployed for a number of years and in interview made a compelling case to employ him then, after a week of training quit as it wasn't mon-fri... I wonder if he even signed himself off.


" Many people may well be on benefits for reasons that undermine their ability to reason logically [alcoholics will just see extra beer tokens for example]"

That's one of your first thoughts on the subject?

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That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 19:34 - Feb 7 with 2243 viewsDarth_Koont

That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 18:37 - Feb 7 by Swansea_Blue

The counter argument that we should be looking after our own families is pretty strong. It’s what we always had to do and it’s still normally in many countries. But times change too. It’s not so easy combine caring with more people turning into wage slaves. And family networks are increasingly dispersed (often job related again).

I don’t know what the answer is. I work with a single parent of a young child who’s also a career for an older relative. She finds it ridiculously tough to survive from one week to the next even though she’s working.


The answer is tax.

It sounds awful but it's a lot like going to the gym (which is also awful when it's done right). But you come out of it stronger and healthier, and then you know there's no alternative.

And that makes you happy.

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That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 20:03 - Feb 7 with 2208 viewsPendejo

That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 19:30 - Feb 7 by jeera

" Many people may well be on benefits for reasons that undermine their ability to reason logically [alcoholics will just see extra beer tokens for example]"

That's one of your first thoughts on the subject?


At work and rushing to get point across.

The woman herself raised the question: "Why can't the rent be paid directly to the landlord?"
Then went on to say that she would be tempted to spend it, and she seemed a good person and a good example of a poor soul screwed by the system. Within the system there are people who are not good with money, paying them the rent instead of the landlord is a bad move, which I believe piles more pressure on the wider system [emergency loans, eviction notices / threats etc.].
A colleague of mine owns six houses that he rents out and once the change to the system of not being paid direct came about he no longer gave any consideration to prospective tenants who were on benefits because of the UC horror stories.

Or have I missed the point, is it that the benefits are so p*** poor that even a person with a degree in economics would struggle.... it's over 16 years since I last had to claim benefits... would I struggle with the new UC, probably.

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That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 20:27 - Feb 7 with 2177 viewsPendejo

That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 19:30 - Feb 7 by jeera

" Many people may well be on benefits for reasons that undermine their ability to reason logically [alcoholics will just see extra beer tokens for example]"

That's one of your first thoughts on the subject?


Dammit didn't answer the question properly... no my first thoughts were she has a better sofa than I do, it was in the original post

uberima fides
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That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 20:30 - Feb 7 with 2173 viewsjeera

That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 20:27 - Feb 7 by Pendejo

Dammit didn't answer the question properly... no my first thoughts were she has a better sofa than I do, it was in the original post


I struggle with the automatic reactions of people.

Instead of the initial reaction being one of empathy and interest in someone's personal circumstances, it's straight to what have they got? Do they drink/take drugs/where's the dad?

I'm sure you can see that without further prompting.

You're at work. I'll let you get on.

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That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 20:31 - Feb 7 with 2163 viewsDarth_Koont

That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 18:37 - Feb 7 by Swansea_Blue

The counter argument that we should be looking after our own families is pretty strong. It’s what we always had to do and it’s still normally in many countries. But times change too. It’s not so easy combine caring with more people turning into wage slaves. And family networks are increasingly dispersed (often job related again).

I don’t know what the answer is. I work with a single parent of a young child who’s also a career for an older relative. She finds it ridiculously tough to survive from one week to the next even though she’s working.


Definitely. We just need to accept that this is what society is about.

There are responsibilities that just need to be taken care of. Then there are opportunities.

A government that really represents people and their reality needs to ensure people get what they need first. Then and only then it makes sense to talk about creating opportunities.

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That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 20:51 - Feb 7 with 2146 viewsfactual_blue

That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 18:37 - Feb 7 by Swansea_Blue

The counter argument that we should be looking after our own families is pretty strong. It’s what we always had to do and it’s still normally in many countries. But times change too. It’s not so easy combine caring with more people turning into wage slaves. And family networks are increasingly dispersed (often job related again).

I don’t know what the answer is. I work with a single parent of a young child who’s also a career for an older relative. She finds it ridiculously tough to survive from one week to the next even though she’s working.


IDS wanted at the outset a much wider definition of liability in UC. In other words if your brother, father, sister were without income, they'd be expected to - or even deemed to - get some financial support from you.

Fortunately for the country the Civil Service told him this wasn't going to happen.

Ta neige, Acadie, fait des larmes au soleil
Poll: Do you grind your gears
Blog: [Blog] The Shape We're In

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That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 20:55 - Feb 7 with 2131 viewsfactual_blue

That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 19:27 - Feb 7 by Pendejo

Didn't see all the programme, but from what I did see....

The 48 year old single mother - that was pretty grim - but weirdly one of my thoughts was.... she's got a better sofa than I have.

It it completely and utterly wrong to pay them [claimants as a whole] the rent and expect them to pay the landlord. Many people may well be on benefits for reasons that undermine their ability to reason logically [alcoholics will just see extra beer tokens for example]

But what about the fella in the camouflage jacket? When offered a work placement he was almost insulted, yet had been on benefits for how long?

About 10 years or so ago I employed a lady who had been unemployed for a few years with no-one giving her a chance, she passed our aptitude tests and after a few years got herself a better job.

The counter to this was a fella I employed who was told from the off that working for us is not 9 to 5 Mon to Fri, he'd been unemployed for a number of years and in interview made a compelling case to employ him then, after a week of training quit as it wasn't mon-fri... I wonder if he even signed himself off.


The other thing to take from the programme is that Neil Couling is a bit of a plonker.

Ta neige, Acadie, fait des larmes au soleil
Poll: Do you grind your gears
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That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 21:14 - Feb 7 with 2084 viewsPendejo

That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 20:30 - Feb 7 by jeera

I struggle with the automatic reactions of people.

Instead of the initial reaction being one of empathy and interest in someone's personal circumstances, it's straight to what have they got? Do they drink/take drugs/where's the dad?

I'm sure you can see that without further prompting.

You're at work. I'll let you get on.


Just about to go home... have a spare few minutes.

I think given your personal circumstances briefly outlined
That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing by jeera 7 Feb 2020 19:16
Assumptions are still always made aren't they.

I am still unable to work and I hate it, yet I have had people say to me sometimes, "But you do get those who don't want to work don't you?"

Wtf does that have to do with me?

I've done 30 years so far and fully intend to do another 15 if I can get the damned opportunity.

People can't wait to judge without knowing eff-all.



Maybe you are feeling negatively about many aspects of life which is magnified by unemployment - here I speak from my own experience of spending 2 years unemployed before current job.Thus jump on others you see as jumping to conclusions.

My point was essentially I don't like the way that UC is paid, specifically the rent element, lumping it in with everything else makes it tempting to use it for other things... in the case of the woman; simply buying food for her kids.

Here's to you re-entering work, and soon.

uberima fides
Poll: Start a new job tomorrow - which suit?

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That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 21:24 - Feb 7 with 2076 viewsjeera

That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 21:14 - Feb 7 by Pendejo

Just about to go home... have a spare few minutes.

I think given your personal circumstances briefly outlined
That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing by jeera 7 Feb 2020 19:16
Assumptions are still always made aren't they.

I am still unable to work and I hate it, yet I have had people say to me sometimes, "But you do get those who don't want to work don't you?"

Wtf does that have to do with me?

I've done 30 years so far and fully intend to do another 15 if I can get the damned opportunity.

People can't wait to judge without knowing eff-all.



Maybe you are feeling negatively about many aspects of life which is magnified by unemployment - here I speak from my own experience of spending 2 years unemployed before current job.Thus jump on others you see as jumping to conclusions.

My point was essentially I don't like the way that UC is paid, specifically the rent element, lumping it in with everything else makes it tempting to use it for other things... in the case of the woman; simply buying food for her kids.

Here's to you re-entering work, and soon.


I'm not unemployed.

I have never been unemployed in my life.

My first job was when I was 12. I then worked relentlessly from school leaving age of 16.

I have health issues that are not my fault.

That's not 'unemployed'.

Poll: Xmas dinner: Yorkshires or not?

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That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 22:39 - Feb 7 with 1986 viewsjeera

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/feb/07/dwp-benefit-related-suicide-numb

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That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 10:10 - Feb 8 with 1822 viewsfactual_blue

That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 20:03 - Feb 7 by Pendejo

At work and rushing to get point across.

The woman herself raised the question: "Why can't the rent be paid directly to the landlord?"
Then went on to say that she would be tempted to spend it, and she seemed a good person and a good example of a poor soul screwed by the system. Within the system there are people who are not good with money, paying them the rent instead of the landlord is a bad move, which I believe piles more pressure on the wider system [emergency loans, eviction notices / threats etc.].
A colleague of mine owns six houses that he rents out and once the change to the system of not being paid direct came about he no longer gave any consideration to prospective tenants who were on benefits because of the UC horror stories.

Or have I missed the point, is it that the benefits are so p*** poor that even a person with a degree in economics would struggle.... it's over 16 years since I last had to claim benefits... would I struggle with the new UC, probably.


After her rent and other unavoidable bill, she was left with less than £140 a month.

I think saying she'd be 'tempted' to spend it is an unfortunate choice of words.

Ta neige, Acadie, fait des larmes au soleil
Poll: Do you grind your gears
Blog: [Blog] The Shape We're In

1
That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 12:30 - Feb 8 with 1750 viewsgazzer1999

'I googled amber rudd last night. She's bought her daughter a £3m flat, and has a library and a wine cellar. What can she know about people like me?'

Thats exactly what I thought of Kier Starmer.
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That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 12:47 - Feb 8 with 1732 viewsDarth_Koont

That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 12:30 - Feb 8 by gazzer1999

'I googled amber rudd last night. She's bought her daughter a £3m flat, and has a library and a wine cellar. What can she know about people like me?'

Thats exactly what I thought of Kier Starmer.


Rudd, the daughter of a stockbroker and a magistrate who was an investment banker before going into politics?

Or Starmer, the son of a nurse and toolmaker who was a lawyer specialising in human rights and social justice cases?

I think I could have a wild stab in the dark as to who is more in touch with the average man or woman in the street.

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That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 17:06 - Feb 8 with 1653 viewsgazzer1999

That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 12:47 - Feb 8 by Darth_Koont

Rudd, the daughter of a stockbroker and a magistrate who was an investment banker before going into politics?

Or Starmer, the son of a nurse and toolmaker who was a lawyer specialising in human rights and social justice cases?

I think I could have a wild stab in the dark as to who is more in touch with the average man or woman in the street.


He's millionaire, or didn't you take a stab in the dark. Check you facts before you put your foot in it. Get real it doesn't matter who is in politics or where they came from they are human beings, but their earning power plus expenses bear no reflection on the 'person in the street'.
Remember its not their fault what their parents did for a living.
For the record Amber Rudd was also married to an author.
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That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 16:38 - Feb 10 with 1543 viewsDarth_Koont

That Universal Credit documentary the other night was fascinating viewing on 17:06 - Feb 8 by gazzer1999

He's millionaire, or didn't you take a stab in the dark. Check you facts before you put your foot in it. Get real it doesn't matter who is in politics or where they came from they are human beings, but their earning power plus expenses bear no reflection on the 'person in the street'.
Remember its not their fault what their parents did for a living.
For the record Amber Rudd was also married to an author.


I did check the facts. And I think parents and upbringing give a clear link.

You brought in Starmer for some reason and without much to back it up. I know desperate searches for equivalence are often a part of the rubbish debate on here but that was particularly weak.

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