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A post-Brexit solution? on 20:30 - Feb 7 by giant_stow
The democratic process has finished as far as brexit's concerned though. The only people who need to worry about the ins and outs of what actually hapens are in Boris's little circle. The rest of us would be best off forgetting about what *should* happen and instead deal with what actually happens. Further arguing at this point at least, is pointless and divisive. So yes if you like, it really is what it ia.
We pick up arms and we fight.
That's what people have always done throughout history.
We don't have to put up with anything.
Everyone pop to the shed and report back with whatever they can muster.
A post-Brexit solution? on 20:30 - Feb 7 by giant_stow
The democratic process has finished as far as brexit's concerned though. The only people who need to worry about the ins and outs of what actually hapens are in Boris's little circle. The rest of us would be best off forgetting about what *should* happen and instead deal with what actually happens. Further arguing at this point at least, is pointless and divisive. So yes if you like, it really is what it ia.
But Brexit isn't done. There's 11 months of negotiation ahead (possibly even more) that can be defined by the public.
We might not even leave. If we actually get real and talk about it.
Pronouns: He/Him
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A post-Brexit solution? on 20:52 - Feb 7 with 3827 views
A post-Brexit solution? on 21:00 - Feb 7 by Darth_Koont
You're triggered by something but I'm not exactly sure what.
I'm really not triggered, what a condescending response to a post.
Just pointing out the irony of telling others they live in a fictional world where they can have non-EU bananas and exclusive fishing rights etc whilst living in a fictional world where Brexit hasn't happened, might be cancelled and the likes of us have any input into negotiations.
SB
Edit: That wasn't me who reported that - no idea why someone would think that was abuse.
[Post edited 7 Feb 2020 21:05]
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A post-Brexit solution? on 21:41 - Feb 7 with 3745 views
A post-Brexit solution? on 21:05 - Feb 7 by StokieBlue
I'm really not triggered, what a condescending response to a post.
Just pointing out the irony of telling others they live in a fictional world where they can have non-EU bananas and exclusive fishing rights etc whilst living in a fictional world where Brexit hasn't happened, might be cancelled and the likes of us have any input into negotiations.
SB
Edit: That wasn't me who reported that - no idea why someone would think that was abuse.
[Post edited 7 Feb 2020 21:05]
Still struggling.
Where do I not accept that Brexit has happened? The difference now is that it is for real and holding the government to account becomes even more important.
I’m betting on a request for an extension in November and hope the EU says no.
Pronouns: He/Him
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A post-Brexit solution? on 21:46 - Feb 7 with 3732 views
A post-Brexit solution? on 21:41 - Feb 7 by Darth_Koont
Still struggling.
Where do I not accept that Brexit has happened? The difference now is that it is for real and holding the government to account becomes even more important.
I’m betting on a request for an extension in November and hope the EU says no.
"But Brexit isn't done."
That's not really accepting that Brexit has happened. Brexit is done. The trade agreement isn't.
"There's 11 months of negotiation ahead (possibly even more) that can be defined by the public."
Virtually nothing in the process up until this point has been defined by the public, why do you think it's going to start now?
"We might not even leave. If we actually get real and talk about it."
We have left. As I said, it would be rejoining now and under totally different terms.
That's why I said it's ironic to criticise Brexiteers fictional worlds when many of these points seem to be in a fictional world of their own. As I said I am annoyed about Brexit as well but we need to be realistic and face the problems moving forward.
Why do you hope the EU says no and we revert to WHO rules? Isn't that cutting off your nose to spite your face?
SB
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A post-Brexit solution? on 09:44 - Feb 8 with 3612 views
A post-Brexit solution? on 22:09 - Feb 7 by StokieBlue
"But Brexit isn't done."
That's not really accepting that Brexit has happened. Brexit is done. The trade agreement isn't.
"There's 11 months of negotiation ahead (possibly even more) that can be defined by the public."
Virtually nothing in the process up until this point has been defined by the public, why do you think it's going to start now?
"We might not even leave. If we actually get real and talk about it."
We have left. As I said, it would be rejoining now and under totally different terms.
That's why I said it's ironic to criticise Brexiteers fictional worlds when many of these points seem to be in a fictional world of their own. As I said I am annoyed about Brexit as well but we need to be realistic and face the problems moving forward.
Why do you hope the EU says no and we revert to WHO rules? Isn't that cutting off your nose to spite your face?
SB
I think we're at cross purposes here. I don't mean this next 11 months as the continuation of the political debate around Brexit but the negotiation where the details will need to be released to the public.
For example, the terms of the arrangement in Northern Ireland will need to be spelled out to those who are going to use and operate the proposed system. That's the big one, of course, but in other areas too they're not just going to flick the switch at the end of 2020 like they're turning on the Christmas lights.
The Brexit debate (with this government particularly bad) has been appalling on detail. Now it's only the details that matter.
Pronouns: He/Him
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A post-Brexit solution? on 09:47 - Feb 8 with 3609 views
A post-Brexit solution? on 09:44 - Feb 8 by Darth_Koont
I think we're at cross purposes here. I don't mean this next 11 months as the continuation of the political debate around Brexit but the negotiation where the details will need to be released to the public.
For example, the terms of the arrangement in Northern Ireland will need to be spelled out to those who are going to use and operate the proposed system. That's the big one, of course, but in other areas too they're not just going to flick the switch at the end of 2020 like they're turning on the Christmas lights.
The Brexit debate (with this government particularly bad) has been appalling on detail. Now it's only the details that matter.
I agree everyone needs to know the details and they need to be very specific so that businesses and individuals can plan accordingly. I don't however think the public will have much say in what those details are. It will be a one-way flow of information unfortunately, all legislation and debate around Brexit up until this point shows us this.
SB
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A post-Brexit solution? on 10:03 - Feb 8 with 3594 views
A post-Brexit solution? on 09:47 - Feb 8 by StokieBlue
I agree everyone needs to know the details and they need to be very specific so that businesses and individuals can plan accordingly. I don't however think the public will have much say in what those details are. It will be a one-way flow of information unfortunately, all legislation and debate around Brexit up until this point shows us this.
SB
But public opinion and real damage to the government's "brand" is the only power we have ever had over the process. The difference now is that the Tories have to move out from behind the slogans for the first time. Parliament and party politics hasn't worked and is now largely in the background.
I won't take any pleasure in the next 11 months being an increasingly alarming sh!tshow with regions and industry/professional organisations leading the charge. This is about people's jobs, companies' plans, a dysfunctional union and an economy teetering on a recession.
All up against an EU that is massively more prepared for the negotiations and holds all the cards. Almost all, we have the Joker with our ability to go loony.
Pronouns: He/Him
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A post-Brexit solution? on 11:52 - Feb 8 with 3545 views
A post-Brexit solution? on 10:03 - Feb 8 by Darth_Koont
But public opinion and real damage to the government's "brand" is the only power we have ever had over the process. The difference now is that the Tories have to move out from behind the slogans for the first time. Parliament and party politics hasn't worked and is now largely in the background.
I won't take any pleasure in the next 11 months being an increasingly alarming sh!tshow with regions and industry/professional organisations leading the charge. This is about people's jobs, companies' plans, a dysfunctional union and an economy teetering on a recession.
All up against an EU that is massively more prepared for the negotiations and holds all the cards. Almost all, we have the Joker with our ability to go loony.
Unfortunately I think you are still being optimistic. We have no power over the process going forwards.
That doesn't mean people should give up and shut up, just that the chances of making any real difference are negligible. It's best to accept that whilst fighting otherwise it'll only lead to one getting upset.
By all means the government should be challenged, they need to be challenged. Just don't expect it to make a huge amount of difference. They believe they have a mandate and as such can implement what they like.
SB
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A post-Brexit solution? on 12:21 - Feb 8 with 3525 views
I think a lot of the Brexit politicians have successfully managed to convince their followers that any criticism of the politicians (such as calling Dominic Raab thick for not knowing the importance of the Dover Calais crossing) is actually a criticism of the voters, when it isn’t.
It’s got to a point where pointing out facts is seen as condescending to some. The reality is that it’s the likes of Farage, Raab, Johnson etc who actually think the public are stupid by feeding them bile and lies on a daily basis.
[Post edited 7 Feb 2020 16:39]
The trouble is that most of the vocal posters on this forum, do use that sort of language to Brexiteers. What ever happened to spruce moose? the most vocal I can remember, and the one that has Ian Dowie as his avatar.
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A post-Brexit solution? on 12:23 - Feb 8 with 3524 views
A post-Brexit solution? on 17:12 - Feb 7 by HARRY10
It is not about thinking that brexiteers are thick..... they are.
Everytime they appear on TV, on here on even in a coversation their ignorance spews out.
The defining point is that I know if I am accused of ignorance I would check up on what I thought. Brexiteers never do. It's the same idiotic nonsense day in day out, month in month out and now year in year out.
It matters little whether I point out that they are thick or that capital punishment in the UK was not stopped by the EU. They will just reply with more absurd 'whataboutery'
Brexiteers are not considred thick because they are not fully informed about every detail - but because of their blanket refusal to engage in rational debate.
They never get the chance, the likes of that moose thing and others trample all over them.
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A post-Brexit solution? on 12:26 - Feb 8 with 3515 views
My solution ban politics on TWTD its the only time I hear Brexit mentioned
Sounds like the best idea I have heard on this forum. By the way its a footie forum isn't it? Trouble is the same ones will use it to get at the manager or the latest player fall-guy.
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A post-Brexit solution? on 12:30 - Feb 8 with 3504 views
A post-Brexit solution? on 17:12 - Feb 7 by HARRY10
It is not about thinking that brexiteers are thick..... they are.
Everytime they appear on TV, on here on even in a coversation their ignorance spews out.
The defining point is that I know if I am accused of ignorance I would check up on what I thought. Brexiteers never do. It's the same idiotic nonsense day in day out, month in month out and now year in year out.
It matters little whether I point out that they are thick or that capital punishment in the UK was not stopped by the EU. They will just reply with more absurd 'whataboutery'
Brexiteers are not considred thick because they are not fully informed about every detail - but because of their blanket refusal to engage in rational debate.
How are the self awareness courses going?
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
A post-Brexit solution? on 11:54 - Feb 8 by StokieBlue
Unfortunately I think you are still being optimistic. We have no power over the process going forwards.
That doesn't mean people should give up and shut up, just that the chances of making any real difference are negligible. It's best to accept that whilst fighting otherwise it'll only lead to one getting upset.
By all means the government should be challenged, they need to be challenged. Just don't expect it to make a huge amount of difference. They believe they have a mandate and as such can implement what they like.
SB
I didn't think we had any control before. The political debate and in parliament was largely about putting speed bumps in the way. And we ended up with a Brexit that was more like the ERG's version in the end than anything that was discussed before and after the referendum.
The political process failed because it was still about politics rather than reality.
Now we're in a new phase that is all about the realities of Brexit. I think finally we have the chance to get real - and a necessity for the government to do that whether they like it or not.
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