| Flynn Downes 10:25 - Feb 12 with 2191 views | SomethingBlue |
On a different level to anyone on that pitch last night. The *one* thing I enjoyed was watching him at really close quarters from the front row of the side terrace. His anticipation of situations (in what was a really mucky midfield scrap at times), speed to the ball and ability to shield/drive with it are simply beyond this division. He is by far the nearest thing we have to someone who can really push the team forward when it is struggling. We are going to really miss him.
Sadly we'll lose him for, let's say, £3m if we are lucky rather than four times that. This season is, and I don't think any of us can sugarcoat it now, turning into an historic clusterfcuk that will harm us in many, many, many ways. I'm at a loss really; how can the current setup turn any of this around?
Specific thoughts on last night:
- We'd probably have won that game with Garbutt and a proper right wing-back but that simply exposes the facts that (a) we do not have a competent wide attacker, or refuse to try Jackson as one and (b) other departments simply aren't working properly.
- Taken in isolation you'd probably consider that second-half performance to be OK. But what the hell was that in the first half? I'm not convinced there were many poor individual performances but the setup was wrong. Earl looks a good player actually and I'd put him in that left CB role for the rest of the season, losing Wilson and moving Chambers inside. But he is no wing-back. Either Kenlock needed to start, just to offer a threat and an actual outlet, or we needed to get Judge into that lineup to try and work some space given how narrow we became. Instead we were terribly flat against a team we should have been backing ourselves to take on — Wimbledon are organised and worked hard but we will not face a less threatening opponent.
— Keane should have come on far earlier and showed the value of simply having someone who could drop in and play. I hadn't realised how late it was when he came on and was starting to fancy us slightly when it became clear time was virtually up.
— We are still in the race but by the skin of our teeth really and it's hard to see where any win against a competent side is coming from. We need to start playing to our strengths and going for teams. We look fearful. While we did improve after half-time last night the passivity and lack of tempo, Downes and perhaps Huws excepted, were really chronic.
[Post edited 12 Feb 2020 10:26]
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| Flynn Downes on 10:27 - Feb 12 with 2160 views | OhDavidMcgoldrick |
Agree with every word.
A truly class operator.
In terms of fee I can see it being £5 million plus add ons, which is still 50% of what he should be worth and in 12 months time QPR (or whoever buys him) will be selling him on for Webster size money.
There was one moment in the second half when he played a through ball for the static Donacien. Downes had the look of the kid at school who is far better than any of his classmates and is trying not to show his frustration. [Post edited 12 Feb 2020 10:29]
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| Flynn Downes on 10:30 - Feb 12 with 2124 views | StokieBlue |
| Flynn Downes on 10:27 - Feb 12 by OhDavidMcgoldrick |
Agree with every word.
A truly class operator.
In terms of fee I can see it being £5 million plus add ons, which is still 50% of what he should be worth and in 12 months time QPR (or whoever buys him) will be selling him on for Webster size money.
There was one moment in the second half when he played a through ball for the static Donacien. Downes had the look of the kid at school who is far better than any of his classmates and is trying not to show his frustration. [Post edited 12 Feb 2020 10:29]
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How many players have moved from League One for 5m or more?
I can only think of two. Alli and Lookman.
I would be amazed if we got anywhere near 5m even if that is below his real worth.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Flynn Downes on 10:31 - Feb 12 with 2106 views | Herbivore |
Downes is a proper baller and if we'd been competently managed to get out of this league he'd potentially be a future ITFC captain and one of the players who could still stand out in the division above. It's so depressing that we're going to lose him for peanuts, I just hope he's on the radar of a Prem side or two so we can rinse as much as possible for him. |  |
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| Sensible football fans can see set-ups so why can't Lambert on 10:32 - Feb 12 with 2099 views | Dyland |
Either he's become overly cautious and negative and desperately clinging on, or it's simple incompetence. I'd veer towards the former, but... |  |
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| Flynn Downes on 10:34 - Feb 12 with 2070 views | OhDavidMcgoldrick |
| Flynn Downes on 10:30 - Feb 12 by StokieBlue |
How many players have moved from League One for 5m or more?
I can only think of two. Alli and Lookman.
I would be amazed if we got anywhere near 5m even if that is below his real worth.
SB |
From what I have heard, Toney essentially has an £11 million fee agreed for next year - even if Posh go up.
That should hopefully blow open the market if the deal is done early enough.
Also worth noting that Downes is a West Ham fan, so if they are relegated then he could be touted to them in a big money move. Imagine Downes as a decent Noble replacement and future Hammers captain. [Post edited 12 Feb 2020 10:35]
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| Flynn Downes on 10:35 - Feb 12 with 2048 views | SomethingBlue |
| Flynn Downes on 10:31 - Feb 12 by Herbivore |
Downes is a proper baller and if we'd been competently managed to get out of this league he'd potentially be a future ITFC captain and one of the players who could still stand out in the division above. It's so depressing that we're going to lose him for peanuts, I just hope he's on the radar of a Prem side or two so we can rinse as much as possible for him. |
I think he is firmly on Prem radars but deeply fear losing him to one of the many Championship sides that have outstripped us through being smart, sharp and forward-thinking.
Best central midfielder of his type that we've had since Matty Holland. Unless something changes dramatically it's going to be one hell of a sad waste for us. One of many. | |
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| Flynn Downes on 10:35 - Feb 12 with 2039 views | StokieBlue |
| Flynn Downes on 10:34 - Feb 12 by OhDavidMcgoldrick |
From what I have heard, Toney essentially has an £11 million fee agreed for next year - even if Posh go up.
That should hopefully blow open the market if the deal is done early enough.
Also worth noting that Downes is a West Ham fan, so if they are relegated then he could be touted to them in a big money move. Imagine Downes as a decent Noble replacement and future Hammers captain. [Post edited 12 Feb 2020 10:35]
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Maybe although I don't think so.
Forwards tend to go for more and Toney is further along his development path than Downes.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Flynn Downes on 10:36 - Feb 12 with 2005 views | MrTown |
Agree entirely on Downes, a really talented footballer, does so much so well, a fantastic number 8. Will be a real shame when he leaves. |  |
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| Flynn Downes on 10:39 - Feb 12 with 1975 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Flynn Downes on 10:30 - Feb 12 by StokieBlue |
How many players have moved from League One for 5m or more?
I can only think of two. Alli and Lookman.
I would be amazed if we got anywhere near 5m even if that is below his real worth.
SB |
Luton sold James Justin for more than £5m after a season in League 1. |  |
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| Flynn Downes on 10:40 - Feb 12 with 1963 views | Herbivore |
| Flynn Downes on 10:39 - Feb 12 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Luton sold James Justin for more than £5m after a season in League 1. |
Although they'd won promotion so were in a stronger position to hold out for a big fee. | |
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| Flynn Downes on 10:40 - Feb 12 with 1964 views | LankHenners |
Watching him you can tell he wouldn't look out of place in a much better team with much better players. 'Industrious' gets chucked around a lot to describe midfielders who put themselves about but he really is that and even the 'sexiest' football teams know you need someone who can win the ball and recycle it as well as he can. As you say, such a shame the chance of keeping him or even getting a good fee for him are pretty much nil as it stands.
Thought much the same re: Earl/Wilson/Kenlock. I don't rate Kenlock but at least he'd have tried to force the issue in that position as Earl looked a bit uncomfortable there. Wilson's been a solid league 1 CB in games against weaker teams which is all he needed to be but he isn't very good and his distribution is beyond woeful.
Something silly would have to happen for us to get promoted from here I fear. There's a slim chance we pull ourselves back into the playoffs but unless our fellow competitors have a crisis of confidence at the vital moment and we scrape through the whole process on penalties it looks unlikely. |  |
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| Flynn Downes on 10:42 - Feb 12 with 1943 views | StokieBlue |
| Flynn Downes on 10:39 - Feb 12 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Luton sold James Justin for more than £5m after a season in League 1. |
Didn't know that although they were Championship then right and could command a higher fee?
We won't be at this rate.
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| Flynn Downes on 10:42 - Feb 12 with 1941 views | OhDavidMcgoldrick |
| Flynn Downes on 10:40 - Feb 12 by LankHenners |
Watching him you can tell he wouldn't look out of place in a much better team with much better players. 'Industrious' gets chucked around a lot to describe midfielders who put themselves about but he really is that and even the 'sexiest' football teams know you need someone who can win the ball and recycle it as well as he can. As you say, such a shame the chance of keeping him or even getting a good fee for him are pretty much nil as it stands.
Thought much the same re: Earl/Wilson/Kenlock. I don't rate Kenlock but at least he'd have tried to force the issue in that position as Earl looked a bit uncomfortable there. Wilson's been a solid league 1 CB in games against weaker teams which is all he needed to be but he isn't very good and his distribution is beyond woeful.
Something silly would have to happen for us to get promoted from here I fear. There's a slim chance we pull ourselves back into the playoffs but unless our fellow competitors have a crisis of confidence at the vital moment and we scrape through the whole process on penalties it looks unlikely. |
Wilson slicing the ball onto the roof of our stand in the 90th minute summed up his distribution perfectly. | |
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| Flynn Downes on 10:46 - Feb 12 with 1918 views | Herbivore |
| Flynn Downes on 10:42 - Feb 12 by OhDavidMcgoldrick |
Wilson slicing the ball onto the roof of our stand in the 90th minute summed up his distribution perfectly. |
Wilson is capable cover at this level and that's all he should have been for most of the season. That he's started so often is bizarre for me and another reason wht I'm not in favour of us playing with a back three. Essentially at the moment Wilson is taking a space that could be filled by Dozzell or Dobra or Sears or Keane or Judge. Lambert decided to become resistant to change at a moment where we were playing a formation that I've never felt really works for us with our current personnel. | |
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| Flynn Downes on 10:50 - Feb 12 with 1889 views | SomethingBlue |
| Flynn Downes on 10:46 - Feb 12 by Herbivore |
Wilson is capable cover at this level and that's all he should have been for most of the season. That he's started so often is bizarre for me and another reason wht I'm not in favour of us playing with a back three. Essentially at the moment Wilson is taking a space that could be filled by Dozzell or Dobra or Sears or Keane or Judge. Lambert decided to become resistant to change at a moment where we were playing a formation that I've never felt really works for us with our current personnel. |
Earl's performance last night should ease Wilson out of the picture. Wasn't his fault he was selected at wing-back and I thought he looked good, gets the ball out of his feet well "for a big man" and uses it crisply. With him and Woolf either side of Chambers, and Garbutt/KVY (who I really don't expect to see for quite a while yet by the way) as marauding wing-backs the balance would look OK but at the moment it's too man square pegs in round holes. | |
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| Flynn Downes on 10:53 - Feb 12 with 1851 views | Herbivore |
| Flynn Downes on 10:50 - Feb 12 by SomethingBlue |
Earl's performance last night should ease Wilson out of the picture. Wasn't his fault he was selected at wing-back and I thought he looked good, gets the ball out of his feet well "for a big man" and uses it crisply. With him and Woolf either side of Chambers, and Garbutt/KVY (who I really don't expect to see for quite a while yet by the way) as marauding wing-backs the balance would look OK but at the moment it's too man square pegs in round holes. |
The thing that for me highlights that Lambert is just not up to the job anymore is that, having changed the system for LOLs week on week earlier in the season, he's slavishly stuck to 3-5-2 for the past two games when a blind man can see we don't have the players to make it work at the minute. Without Garbutt and KVY/Edwards we don't have the width needed to make it work. He ought to have dropped Wilson and gone to a flat back four, which would have enabled a CB to be replaced by someone who might actually create or score a goal. | |
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| Flynn Downes on 11:23 - Feb 12 with 1784 views | Darth_Koont |
Indeed. His scrap with Reilly where Flynn got the better of him almost every time was the highlight of the first half. Second half Reilly was nowhere and Flynn just looked very composed. He's a hell of a player at this level and probably at Championship level too in an otherwise functioning team.
Staying down here will probably lose us 5 or 6 million on Downes alone. Yes, we could just refuse to sell but Downes needs to play at a higher level and we still need to cover losses from the this season and last let alone pay for another year in League One.
Agreed re: the wing-backs. Seems to be the triumph of hope over expectation thinking that Donacien and Earl could make that work in the attacking sense. In the absence of Garbutt and KVY (or Edwards who's been decent enough), it would seem to make much more sense having a more comfortable back 4, Downes, Huws and Garbutt one of (Skuse/Nolan/Dozzell/Bishop in the meantime) getting on top of midfield and then having a three man-attack with Jackson and Norwood/Sears/Judge etc. providing width and movement with Keane the more central striker providing some focus and control.
That at least has the benefit of putting players in their more natural positions and not exposing their weaknesses as much. People perhaps criticize Mick for not being expansive and adventurous enough but he seemed to know a thing or two about protecting players' weaknesses rather than hoping they'd be OK. [Post edited 12 Feb 2020 11:24]
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| Flynn Downes on 11:25 - Feb 12 with 1762 views | haynes_toe1 |
I think we could get £4m for him, assuming we don't go up. That would be a good fee as realistically I can only see him getting in to the starting 11 of a midtable Champs team | | | |
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