| Be under no illusion 08:08 - Feb 13 with 9857 views | GlasgowBlue |
If we fail to go up this season we will not be signing Garbutt and will most likely cash in on KVY, Dozzell, Wolfenden, Drogba & Downes.
A top six league one team may also believe that they could do a better job with either Norwood or Jackson than we have. And Marcus will take their money.
Which begs the question: Is Evans happy with us being a mid table League One team?
Under Mick’s management, he showed that he didn’t have the appetite or ambition to fund a promotion push to the Premier League and if we were promoted back to the championship, it’s fairly obvious that this team needs serious investment just to stay up next season.
So is making up the numbers in League one where Evans feels most comfortable? [Post edited 13 Feb 2020 8:14]
|  |
| |  |
| Be under no illusion on 09:10 - Feb 13 with 3130 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| Be under no illusion on 08:24 - Feb 13 by Ftnfwest |
All true other than i don't think we'd get a lot for Drogba these days... The other misconception is that it simply isn't just about money, it's Marcus' lack of footballing nous leading to a number of poor managerial choices over the years. He will not put in place a modern managerial set up as exists elsewhere (including up the road) to develop a proper plan for him. Oh no, he's wanted to get more involved himself! |
Evans's "lack of footballing nous". So he is just a typical supporter. |  |
| |
| Be under no illusion on 09:12 - Feb 13 with 3128 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
All down to having the same old run of the mill managers who are appointed on the basis of having won promotion to the Premier League 10 years ago.
The Hurst appointment was along the right lines, he was just the wrong pick. The problem now is that purely based on that one appointment I think the mantra will be 'we tried that, and it didnt work'.
I'd like to see some strategy in terms of recruitment of managers and players, that's the only way to try to bridge the money gap. |  |
| |
| Be under no illusion on 09:16 - Feb 13 with 3119 views | No9 |
"Under Mick’s management, he showed that he didn’t have the appetite or ambition to fund a promotion push to the Premier League"
How many tiems did 'Mick' say he had the best squad in the division?
& Mr E did fund 79 'Mick' signings, didn't he? |  | | |
| Be under no illusion on 09:25 - Feb 13 with 3078 views | Herbivore |
| Be under no illusion on 09:16 - Feb 13 by No9 |
"Under Mick’s management, he showed that he didn’t have the appetite or ambition to fund a promotion push to the Premier League"
How many tiems did 'Mick' say he had the best squad in the division?
& Mr E did fund 79 'Mick' signings, didn't he? |
I don't think Mick ever said he had the best squad in the division, not once. |  |
| |
| Be under no illusion on 09:34 - Feb 13 with 3065 views | Garv |
So we're going to sell Downes, Woolfenden, Dozzell, Dobra, KVY and one of Norwood and Jackson? Do you actually think that? |  |
| |
| Be under no illusion on 09:36 - Feb 13 with 3060 views | Chrisd |
| Be under no illusion on 08:43 - Feb 13 by itfcjoe |
A club of our size, with the investment ME is prepared to make should be a lower end Championship club, it’s certainly too big for L1 when you look around at the levels of investment by the owners in this division.
Unfortunately we are let down by poor decision making, the latest of which is a 5 year deal for a manager who looks as though he is past it |
After the podcast Joe, you seem on a mission regarding PL? However, I understand your stance on this. Certainly agree about the decision making too at the club, but this is ME's Ipswich Town, should that have come as a surprise? Probably not. | |
| |
| Be under no illusion on 10:06 - Feb 13 with 2997 views | Superblue95 |
Must have missed us signing Didier. Obviously isn’t able to bang them in like he used to |  |
| |
| Be under no illusion on 10:11 - Feb 13 with 2989 views | rickw |
I think Downes and Woolfenden will leave in the summer, however I'm sure we'll get around £10m + add-ons for them.
I think Dozzell will want to leave unless he's given assurances of regular first team football next season.
We've seen how well 2 of our youngsters have done since being given the chance, I'd like to clear the way for more of them to play regularly. Can anyone honestly say that El Mizouni, Dobra or Morris would have done worse than the players currently in their positions? |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Be under no illusion on 10:12 - Feb 13 with 2981 views | artsbossbeard |
| Be under no illusion on 10:11 - Feb 13 by rickw |
I think Downes and Woolfenden will leave in the summer, however I'm sure we'll get around £10m + add-ons for them.
I think Dozzell will want to leave unless he's given assurances of regular first team football next season.
We've seen how well 2 of our youngsters have done since being given the chance, I'd like to clear the way for more of them to play regularly. Can anyone honestly say that El Mizouni, Dobra or Morris would have done worse than the players currently in their positions? |
"I think Downes and Woolfenden will leave in the summer, however I'm sure we'll get around £10m + add-ons for them. "
Crikey. |  |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
| |
| Be under no illusion on 10:15 - Feb 13 with 2971 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Be under no illusion on 09:34 - Feb 13 by Garv |
So we're going to sell Downes, Woolfenden, Dozzell, Dobra, KVY and one of Norwood and Jackson? Do you actually think that? |
Downes and Wolfenden are not League one players. I’d say that they have every chance of being developed into players that have decent Premier league careers such as Creswell and Mings. Failure to be promoted this year will be sign that the club does not match their personal ambitions.
Brighton have already sniffed around Digba so he’s on the radar of the top clubs. Dozzell may well feel that there is little point in staying at Ipswich, given his limited opportunities. There will be better clubs happy to give him that chance.
KVY is also a cut above this league. As previously posted, the saving grace may be that his injury has kept him off the radar.
We sold Harrison this year. I wouldn’t be surprised to see one of Jackson or Norwood sold with Sears as an option and Jirdan Roberts returning.
This is where we are folks. | |
| |
| Be under no illusion on 10:25 - Feb 13 with 2941 views | WeWereZombies |
We would have to sign Drogba first to be able to sell him, he was great in his pomp but nowadays I think we might be better off taking Connor Wickham on loan...
Regarding the word 'investment' - if football is run fairly, i.e. there is no match fixing and the like, then what a club has is a sunk cost. The money has been spent and fortunes depend on success on the pitch, which should never be guaranteed. So the concept of investment for me only applies to things like the training ground, treatment rooms and gym equipment (which, after all, can be sold to a municipal authority like Rotterdam). The money spent on players and the management team may have a significant future value or it could evaporate overnight due to poor results, injury or even perceptions (true or false) about future performance. In other words an intangible. True enough player contracts have an element of the asset that can be traded and are an investment in that sense but as a completely measurable solid investment I don't see it. The money is pumped in and one hopes for the best (easily done when it is not our money).
I guess Marcus Evans would be happier if we were in Sheffield United's position right now but I also suspect that he is not drowning in the sea of grief like some of the support right now. What came out of the 'debate' on here a couple of days ago was that the contribution of £6 million a year is only that on paper (and many thanks to 'Pride of the East' for the only material post which put straight mine and one or two others misconception that tax losses could only be set against a similar business), whether Marcus Evans the individual makes any loss on Ipswich Town is moot and could only be proven by the publication of the tax computations throughout his group (and probably THG as well). Even then a question remains about the intangible value of the 'foot in the door' that owning the club that won the English League in 1962 gives him personally as an individual mover and shaker in his chosen field as well as for the business that his companies are able to generate as a result.
Summing up, Evans would probably be happier if we were back in the Second Division but I doubt whether he is about to throw himself under a bus if it looks like we are stuck in the Third. |  |
| |
| Be under no illusion on 10:42 - Feb 13 with 2907 views | MattinLondon |
| Be under no illusion on 10:15 - Feb 13 by GlasgowBlue |
Downes and Wolfenden are not League one players. I’d say that they have every chance of being developed into players that have decent Premier league careers such as Creswell and Mings. Failure to be promoted this year will be sign that the club does not match their personal ambitions.
Brighton have already sniffed around Digba so he’s on the radar of the top clubs. Dozzell may well feel that there is little point in staying at Ipswich, given his limited opportunities. There will be better clubs happy to give him that chance.
KVY is also a cut above this league. As previously posted, the saving grace may be that his injury has kept him off the radar.
We sold Harrison this year. I wouldn’t be surprised to see one of Jackson or Norwood sold with Sears as an option and Jirdan Roberts returning.
This is where we are folks. |
In my humble opinion, where we are now, all stems from a culture of complacency which has developed over the years. Mick knew exactly what his job was under ME - he knew that as long as he kept the team competitive and mid table he was basically in a easy wicket here. He knew that ME was happy with that and who knows - maybe through luck we might actually make the PL.
Ultimately the fans wanted more than simply treading water and watching dull football. I think this caught both Mick and Evans out.
Despite what Evans mentioned in his PR film the appointment of Hurst wasn’t really something a bit different - a simple five minute read of Shrewsbury’s forum would have told anyone that Hurst didn’t play attacking passing football. He was a younger Mick who played a slighter attractive brand of football. Saying that I do think that Hurst has been demonised by some on here. When he came to the club he insisted on costly improvements to the gym and stated that things weren’t up to scratch here. Fast forward a few months and the stories coming from the players was that the buildup to the matches were poor and, in the end, the players had to analyse each match themselves. I don’t know, but something does t really add up there.
I think that the players didn’t like someone new barking out new ideas. I’m not saying that Hurst would have come good but he is adamant that some players didn’t buy into his vision and that is basically true.
Again it comes back to complacency- the players didn’t want change and ME didn’t want the hassle of upsetting them. Hurst days were numbered.
Lambert probably appeals to some the players - we went down baby - humiliated and abused by most teams and we were fed some happy stories which got the fans back. Nothing really changes just all basically the same.
Evans doesn’t want any hassle of dealing with club issues. It’s all just half-arsed and he’ll be happy to be mid table L1 and then L2.
Of course all of our best players will go, everything will be degraded and following each new low a great PR story will breeze in from the club.
Lambert should go but he won’t.
It just season after season complacency - the players probably think that they are better than what they are, they seem gutless and devoid of that killer edge. The edge which saw Tarricco kick the opposition or Jim starting running arguments with everyone including the ball boys whilst away. There is nothing. If we go up it’ll be by luck nothing else. |  | | |
| Be under no illusion on 10:48 - Feb 13 with 2883 views | bazgammon |
Surely the question should be Should Lambert be allowed to continue to make this scenario more likely with 13 games to go? His record here is awful. Despite all the PR, he had time last season to stop us going down, ok, he failed. We cut him some slack especially after August and September when we look set to get automatic promotion, which we expect given the large squad and resources compared to most other 3 tier sides. Since then its been shocking. Evans seems to have thrown all his eggs in Lambert's basket and at this stage they look like being smashed to pieces. | |
| |
| Be under no illusion on 11:00 - Feb 13 with 2859 views | Garv |
| Be under no illusion on 10:15 - Feb 13 by GlasgowBlue |
Downes and Wolfenden are not League one players. I’d say that they have every chance of being developed into players that have decent Premier league careers such as Creswell and Mings. Failure to be promoted this year will be sign that the club does not match their personal ambitions.
Brighton have already sniffed around Digba so he’s on the radar of the top clubs. Dozzell may well feel that there is little point in staying at Ipswich, given his limited opportunities. There will be better clubs happy to give him that chance.
KVY is also a cut above this league. As previously posted, the saving grace may be that his injury has kept him off the radar.
We sold Harrison this year. I wouldn’t be surprised to see one of Jackson or Norwood sold with Sears as an option and Jirdan Roberts returning.
This is where we are folks. |
I might end up being wrong but that seems dramatic to me.
They are currently League One players. Woolfenden looks great but he's not played more than a handful of games in the Championship and has had bad games this season. Downes is probably a step ahead. Both have a long way to go before they get to Cresswell/Mings levels.
Are Brighton a top club? All our half decent young players will be on those radars. Dozzell I can see going if he continues not to play, but not someone like Dobra or El Mizouni who seems to be in the same bracket.
Isn't Roberts out of contract in the summer? If so, I can't see him returning. | |
| |
| Be under no illusion on 11:01 - Feb 13 with 2852 views | WeWereZombies |
| Be under no illusion on 10:42 - Feb 13 by MattinLondon |
In my humble opinion, where we are now, all stems from a culture of complacency which has developed over the years. Mick knew exactly what his job was under ME - he knew that as long as he kept the team competitive and mid table he was basically in a easy wicket here. He knew that ME was happy with that and who knows - maybe through luck we might actually make the PL.
Ultimately the fans wanted more than simply treading water and watching dull football. I think this caught both Mick and Evans out.
Despite what Evans mentioned in his PR film the appointment of Hurst wasn’t really something a bit different - a simple five minute read of Shrewsbury’s forum would have told anyone that Hurst didn’t play attacking passing football. He was a younger Mick who played a slighter attractive brand of football. Saying that I do think that Hurst has been demonised by some on here. When he came to the club he insisted on costly improvements to the gym and stated that things weren’t up to scratch here. Fast forward a few months and the stories coming from the players was that the buildup to the matches were poor and, in the end, the players had to analyse each match themselves. I don’t know, but something does t really add up there.
I think that the players didn’t like someone new barking out new ideas. I’m not saying that Hurst would have come good but he is adamant that some players didn’t buy into his vision and that is basically true.
Again it comes back to complacency- the players didn’t want change and ME didn’t want the hassle of upsetting them. Hurst days were numbered.
Lambert probably appeals to some the players - we went down baby - humiliated and abused by most teams and we were fed some happy stories which got the fans back. Nothing really changes just all basically the same.
Evans doesn’t want any hassle of dealing with club issues. It’s all just half-arsed and he’ll be happy to be mid table L1 and then L2.
Of course all of our best players will go, everything will be degraded and following each new low a great PR story will breeze in from the club.
Lambert should go but he won’t.
It just season after season complacency - the players probably think that they are better than what they are, they seem gutless and devoid of that killer edge. The edge which saw Tarricco kick the opposition or Jim starting running arguments with everyone including the ball boys whilst away. There is nothing. If we go up it’ll be by luck nothing else. |
Just a bye the bye on Evans appointing Hurst - the first interview with Hurst that was a news item on here had our new manager referring to Ipswich as 'the business' rather than 'club', coupled with the recent Bialkowski interview that tells how upset Bart was with Hurst making thumb and finger gestures in his face I think it says something about how Evans set Hurst up to manage and I suspect that was as a cost cutting exercise. In some ways that it almost what some supporters have called for over the years, an end to the big time charlies driving into training in a Bentley whilst on the latest iPhone to Jonathon Barnett but it has not gone well. [Post edited 13 Feb 2020 11:03]
| |
| |
| Be under no illusion on 11:05 - Feb 13 with 2838 views | Harry_Palmer |
| Be under no illusion on 08:29 - Feb 13 by Herbivore |
I don't buy the idea that Evans is happy for us to be a middling League 1 side and just cash in on any saleable assets. First off, we turned down offers for Judge in the summer and we turned down 7 figure offers in the window just gone. That doesn't suggest desperation to cash in and no ambition to go up. It's not the first time Evans has turned down sizeable bids for players either.
On top of that, the only chance ME has of ever getting any money back is by us playing at a higher level, either somehow getting up to the Prem or at least being able to claw in genuinely big fees for Downes and Woolfy as a Championship side. A club of our size is also a much more attractive prospect to a buyer in the Championship than in League 1. Being one step away from the Prem is more enticing to investors than being midtable in League 1.
I fully get the doom and gloom at the minute, our situation is hugely depressing. That said some of the speculative catastrophising is also a bit much. I don't see any evidence, past or present, to suggest that if we don't go up Evans will hold a fire sale and settle for being a midtable League 1 side. |
Common sense as usual Herbie, have an uppie  |  | | |
| Be under no illusion on 11:19 - Feb 13 with 2815 views | davblue |
i don't see FVY going off the back of 10 games or so for us. |  | | |
| Be under no illusion on 11:20 - Feb 13 with 2813 views | Harry_Palmer |
The situation is bleak but I don't think it is quite that bleak. It is true that we would have no chance of signing Garbutt but I wouldn't forsee all of the other players you mention being sold.
As others have pointed out Evans has resisted offers for players this season so It seems unlikely there would be a fire sale of all our best players. I suspect we would probably sell one or two of our biggest assets ( probably Downes & Woolfenden ) and look to trim the squad in other areas to remove some of the deadwood, this would balance the books and probably provide modest funds for some re-investment into the squad.
To be honest the latter part of that equation is needed either way so that we can allow some of the younger players to come through and get some game time, i'm talking about moving on the likes of Judge and Sears so that the El Mizouni's and Dobra's of this world can actually get some time on the pitch for us and a chance to develop. Finding any takers for those two and several others on their current wage level will be the difficult bit.
Of course none of this will ultimately matter if we don't have an intelligent plan and strategy within the club where we are recruiting the players that we need to fit into a defined system and style of play, which brings us back to Lambert again and the fact that he shows no signs of being able to set out exactly what his philosophy is, let alone implement it. | | | |
| Be under no illusion on 11:24 - Feb 13 with 2804 views | daisyisabaddog |
| Be under no illusion on 08:45 - Feb 13 by Kieran_Knows |
Woolfenden, Downes and Dozzell will all be sold for less than what they're actually worth as well, that's what will annoy me most.
I think we'll keep KVY, only because he's been injured for the majority of the season. But a good 6 months next year and he'd be off in January. |
Not sure how Dozzell can be sold for less than he's worth. Unless we pay someone to take him. Wolfenden should bring in £3.5m in the summer | | | |
| Be under no illusion on 11:35 - Feb 13 with 2783 views | haynes_toe1 |
I used to defend Evans but the 5 year contract for Lambert has made that near-impossible. | | | |
| Be under no illusion on 11:38 - Feb 13 with 2765 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| Be under no illusion on 10:25 - Feb 13 by WeWereZombies |
We would have to sign Drogba first to be able to sell him, he was great in his pomp but nowadays I think we might be better off taking Connor Wickham on loan...
Regarding the word 'investment' - if football is run fairly, i.e. there is no match fixing and the like, then what a club has is a sunk cost. The money has been spent and fortunes depend on success on the pitch, which should never be guaranteed. So the concept of investment for me only applies to things like the training ground, treatment rooms and gym equipment (which, after all, can be sold to a municipal authority like Rotterdam). The money spent on players and the management team may have a significant future value or it could evaporate overnight due to poor results, injury or even perceptions (true or false) about future performance. In other words an intangible. True enough player contracts have an element of the asset that can be traded and are an investment in that sense but as a completely measurable solid investment I don't see it. The money is pumped in and one hopes for the best (easily done when it is not our money).
I guess Marcus Evans would be happier if we were in Sheffield United's position right now but I also suspect that he is not drowning in the sea of grief like some of the support right now. What came out of the 'debate' on here a couple of days ago was that the contribution of £6 million a year is only that on paper (and many thanks to 'Pride of the East' for the only material post which put straight mine and one or two others misconception that tax losses could only be set against a similar business), whether Marcus Evans the individual makes any loss on Ipswich Town is moot and could only be proven by the publication of the tax computations throughout his group (and probably THG as well). Even then a question remains about the intangible value of the 'foot in the door' that owning the club that won the English League in 1962 gives him personally as an individual mover and shaker in his chosen field as well as for the business that his companies are able to generate as a result.
Summing up, Evans would probably be happier if we were back in the Second Division but I doubt whether he is about to throw himself under a bus if it looks like we are stuck in the Third. |
I would agree with all of that with the added 'benefit' that Town have a three year advantage over most of the incumbents in this division with the rather odd wage rules in this division giving such a big advantage to relegated clubs.
I genuinely think Evans is looking at a three year timeline to get out of this division - and the contract for Lambo is a clear statement of intent, so to speak that Lambo has to build his own team in his own time with the resources available.
Can't see much of a problem with that myself | |
| |
| Be under no illusion on 12:15 - Feb 13 with 2719 views | monty_radio |
| Be under no illusion on 10:42 - Feb 13 by MattinLondon |
In my humble opinion, where we are now, all stems from a culture of complacency which has developed over the years. Mick knew exactly what his job was under ME - he knew that as long as he kept the team competitive and mid table he was basically in a easy wicket here. He knew that ME was happy with that and who knows - maybe through luck we might actually make the PL.
Ultimately the fans wanted more than simply treading water and watching dull football. I think this caught both Mick and Evans out.
Despite what Evans mentioned in his PR film the appointment of Hurst wasn’t really something a bit different - a simple five minute read of Shrewsbury’s forum would have told anyone that Hurst didn’t play attacking passing football. He was a younger Mick who played a slighter attractive brand of football. Saying that I do think that Hurst has been demonised by some on here. When he came to the club he insisted on costly improvements to the gym and stated that things weren’t up to scratch here. Fast forward a few months and the stories coming from the players was that the buildup to the matches were poor and, in the end, the players had to analyse each match themselves. I don’t know, but something does t really add up there.
I think that the players didn’t like someone new barking out new ideas. I’m not saying that Hurst would have come good but he is adamant that some players didn’t buy into his vision and that is basically true.
Again it comes back to complacency- the players didn’t want change and ME didn’t want the hassle of upsetting them. Hurst days were numbered.
Lambert probably appeals to some the players - we went down baby - humiliated and abused by most teams and we were fed some happy stories which got the fans back. Nothing really changes just all basically the same.
Evans doesn’t want any hassle of dealing with club issues. It’s all just half-arsed and he’ll be happy to be mid table L1 and then L2.
Of course all of our best players will go, everything will be degraded and following each new low a great PR story will breeze in from the club.
Lambert should go but he won’t.
It just season after season complacency - the players probably think that they are better than what they are, they seem gutless and devoid of that killer edge. The edge which saw Tarricco kick the opposition or Jim starting running arguments with everyone including the ball boys whilst away. There is nothing. If we go up it’ll be by luck nothing else. |
Interesting analysis in that you place Hurst in the same sort of category as other old-style managers, but without the kudos among the players that probably comes with having played at levels higher than they have. I think there's something in that.
We were sold the idea of a new kid on the block. Perhaps M.E. with his limited understanding and involvement in football couldn't see, or didn't investigate, beyond the seeming fact of an energetic, younger version of a "real" manager. | |
| |
| Be under no illusion on 12:15 - Feb 13 with 2716 views | Reuser_is_God |
We are fcuked. |  |
| |
| Be under no illusion on 12:48 - Feb 13 with 2680 views | Ftnfwest |
| Be under no illusion on 09:10 - Feb 13 by Tangledupin_Blue |
Evans's "lack of footballing nous". So he is just a typical supporter. |
Absolutely, trouble is he's in charge |  | | |
| Be under no illusion (n/t) on 14:19 - Feb 13 with 2628 views | monty_radio |
| Be under no illusion on 12:48 - Feb 13 by Ftnfwest |
Absolutely, trouble is he's in charge |
[Post edited 13 Feb 2020 14:20]
| |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
