| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:15 - Feb 18 with 3347 views | sparks |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:11 - Feb 18 by HARRY10 |
The doctor, that's where they get their needles, those on methadone and numerous other medecinestreatments
Talk to any doctor or even high up cops and they will tell you the biggest battle is with ignorance as displayed by clueless righties who oppose progressive work in this area at every turn
Thankfully the worldis changing and the UK is slowly making the necessary changes - away from bigotry and ignorance. |
Addicts take what they can get for the price on the street. Someone on methodone is under treatment, not simply buying.
Speak to real police officers, and they will tell you that the societal damage being done by county lines is extraordinary, and that they are barely able to scratch the surface.
I speak as someone who has attended seminars by the police on the subject, as well as regularly seeing the impact elsewhere via legal work.
To suggest that it is now "bigotry" to note that drug dealing is causing harm, is simlpy obnoxious and offensive. [Post edited 18 Feb 2020 19:16]
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| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:16 - Feb 18 with 3346 views | Rocky |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:02 - Feb 18 by HARRY10 |
oh look children
another rightie liar
there's a surprise |
"Oh look children...."
Jesus wept. |  | | |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:19 - Feb 18 with 3338 views | BrixtonBlue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:05 - Feb 18 by sparks |
What would an addict choose? |
Not being one, I've no idea. But I'd imagine most people, even addicts, would choose the definitely safe version ahead of the god-knows-what version. |  |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:21 - Feb 18 with 3327 views | sparks |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:19 - Feb 18 by BrixtonBlue |
Not being one, I've no idea. But I'd imagine most people, even addicts, would choose the definitely safe version ahead of the god-knows-what version. |
They tend to buy what is available, cheap, on hand when it is needed.
Are we suggesting that these drugs are provided free, or do you propose a fee?
These days heroin on the street is dirt cheap... | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:21 - Feb 18 with 3326 views | BrixtonBlue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:07 - Feb 18 by sparks |
I only make one point. It is indisputable. The only reason I have continued to press it is because of the astonishing manner in which people appear desperate to do anything but acknowledge it.
The point is simple. In the current legal climate, by choosing personal gratification by way of illegal drugs, people are causing significant harm to vulnerable people. It is simply a fact.
Your analogy with gay people simply doesnt work- its seeking to address some other point, and doing so in a way which I think is frankly questionable. |
You're doing the thing you hate - building a straw man. Who has denied this 'fact'? | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:22 - Feb 18 with 3318 views | sparks |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:21 - Feb 18 by BrixtonBlue |
You're doing the thing you hate - building a straw man. Who has denied this 'fact'? |
Show me where one person in this thread has addressed and accepted the point made rather than deflecting from it. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:23 - Feb 18 with 3312 views | BrixtonBlue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:15 - Feb 18 by sparks |
Addicts take what they can get for the price on the street. Someone on methodone is under treatment, not simply buying.
Speak to real police officers, and they will tell you that the societal damage being done by county lines is extraordinary, and that they are barely able to scratch the surface.
I speak as someone who has attended seminars by the police on the subject, as well as regularly seeing the impact elsewhere via legal work.
To suggest that it is now "bigotry" to note that drug dealing is causing harm, is simlpy obnoxious and offensive. [Post edited 18 Feb 2020 19:16]
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He's not saying that though is he? Jesus wept. | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:27 - Feb 18 with 3299 views | HARRY10 |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:21 - Feb 18 by sparks |
They tend to buy what is available, cheap, on hand when it is needed.
Are we suggesting that these drugs are provided free, or do you propose a fee?
These days heroin on the street is dirt cheap... |
More clueless nonsense
Cheap is a relative term
So acquiring that £10 will mean shoplifting, prostitution, burglary, theft etc not cheap for any affected by that
Something you righties want ti retain because offering treatment as the answer is abhorrent to your sense of rightwight 'morals' |  | | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:27 - Feb 18 with 3297 views | sparks |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:23 - Feb 18 by BrixtonBlue |
He's not saying that though is he? Jesus wept. |
"Talk to any doctor or even high up cops and they will tell you the biggest battle is with ignorance as displayed by clueless righties who oppose progressive work in this area at every turn
Thankfully the worldis changing and the UK is slowly making the necessary changes - away from bigotry and ignorance. " | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:28 - Feb 18 with 3294 views | sparks |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:27 - Feb 18 by HARRY10 |
More clueless nonsense
Cheap is a relative term
So acquiring that £10 will mean shoplifting, prostitution, burglary, theft etc not cheap for any affected by that
Something you righties want ti retain because offering treatment as the answer is abhorrent to your sense of rightwight 'morals' |
Explain, specifically, what I said in that post which is not correct.
Once chance- then I am giving up.
For the record, the only moral judgment I have even suggested in this entire thread, is the idea that people buying drugs ought to recognise the harm that the market they create is doing. Do you disagree? [Post edited 18 Feb 2020 19:29]
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| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:29 - Feb 18 with 3289 views | Lord_Lucan |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 18:54 - Feb 18 by HARRY10 |
No, it is just you deliberately twisting what has been said.
Most addicts are already in contact with health services. Heroin is not being talked of as being 'decriminalised' either.
The funding is there if it is needed. And would eventually be paid for by dimished costs in police time, courts, jailing etc
Try looking up what the police and health services view is rather than keep posting up silly reponses to points that have not been made. |
The thread is discussing the pros and cons of decriminalising drugs, most people are discussing it but you are going round in circles, and you now seem to be followed about by a lapdog**
**And you know when you are in the wrong when you receive upvotes from Brixton. |  |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:31 - Feb 18 with 3282 views | Swansea_Blue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 11:14 - Feb 18 by giant_stow |
You're still not getting this. When i go buy some cannabis from my dealer, im not helping to create a market for more dodgy sources. My 'demand' is *only* to be fulfilled by my dealer. No country lines, kids or anything else. |
Not the case down here in Swansea. Casual drug use is driving county lines activity. University students, for example, are now part of this problem now and are being exploited in a way they weren’t just a few years ago. The local suppliers are run from Liverpool mainly, with drugs smuggled in on sailing boats landing off isolated rural beaches. We had a gang banged up in the last few weeks after their boat got into trouble last summer and put into Fishguard harbour. |  |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:31 - Feb 18 with 3282 views | BrixtonBlue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:21 - Feb 18 by sparks |
They tend to buy what is available, cheap, on hand when it is needed.
Are we suggesting that these drugs are provided free, or do you propose a fee?
These days heroin on the street is dirt cheap... |
Why, in this fictitious world, are you making the drug dealer drugs cheaper than the doctor prescribed ones?
No-one is suggesting they're provided free.
You know how doctor prescriptions work don't you? You know how pubs selling alcohol work? Why is this so difficult?
Even if the drug dealer drugs were slightly cheaper than the doctor-prescribed-definitely-pure stuff, why would anyone except a complete idiot go for the carp stuff? | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:31 - Feb 18 with 3281 views | eireblue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:07 - Feb 18 by sparks |
I only make one point. It is indisputable. The only reason I have continued to press it is because of the astonishing manner in which people appear desperate to do anything but acknowledge it.
The point is simple. In the current legal climate, by choosing personal gratification by way of illegal drugs, people are causing significant harm to vulnerable people. It is simply a fact.
Your analogy with gay people simply doesnt work- its seeking to address some other point, and doing so in a way which I think is frankly questionable. |
You started using analogies.
And again, you are making a simple point by framing a discussion.
“In the current legal climate...” is not a useful starting point.
Humans take drugs, always have, probably always will.
Again very simplistically, you can resolve the drug problem by expecting every single person that likes a drug to give it up, or you can look at legislators.
Trying to make some people feel bad about engaging in an activity most people participate in, i.e. taking a drug for pleasure, yes that includes nicotine, coffee, alcohol, in the hope that all these people that use a different drug will give up is silly.
However legislators have been legislating based on evidence for years, it is what they are supposed to do.
It is their responsibility to govern and legislate, based on evidence, not arbitrary decisions on what is and isn’t good. Hence the gay example.
Governments should be held accountable, the war on drugs, that was enacted by governments, has not only not worked, it has helped evolve better criminals.
We even have a relatively recent example that is evidence of this.
I think there are a number of people that feel some form of superiority and see a lack of “moral fibre” in people that don’t stop engaging in an activity that they like doing, but is somehow deemed wrong.
I don’t see things changing if that attitude remains in a majority of voters in a democracy.
I don’t see how your frame, in as much as anything helps here on TWTD, helps. It just pushes back the responsibility for the problems on the individual, not the people that are supposed to govern. |  | | |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:32 - Feb 18 with 3276 views | jeera |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:19 - Feb 18 by BrixtonBlue |
Not being one, I've no idea. But I'd imagine most people, even addicts, would choose the definitely safe version ahead of the god-knows-what version. |
They'll take the strongest hit available at the cheapest price.
Thing with addicts is they will only be offered medically enough to wean them off, not to feed their habit continually forever. Usually a substitute under controlled circumstances.
That's support for someone who wants to rehab but no use to anyone who wants to continue using.
And to those types then no amount of substitutes will compare to the real thing available on the street.
I'm sure I'm missing some points here so excuse me - I've not followed the thread.
I'm just unsure why addicts are being discussed in the same thread as recreational users when it comes to debating legalising, as they're different subjects requiring altogether different approaches. [Post edited 18 Feb 2020 19:35]
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:32 - Feb 18 with 3271 views | HARRY10 |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:23 - Feb 18 by BrixtonBlue |
He's not saying that though is he? Jesus wept. |
No, but as with other posts it is far easier for them to make up stuff so as to be able to knock that down than respond to what has actually been stated. | | | |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:34 - Feb 18 with 3260 views | BrixtonBlue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:22 - Feb 18 by sparks |
Show me where one person in this thread has addressed and accepted the point made rather than deflecting from it. |
If you buy illegal drugs by chicoazul 17 Feb 2020 17:25these are the kind of people you are funding and the activities in which you are complicit, all for your bit of fun; https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/16/hell-on-sea-dawlish-drugs-gang-geordies
Great guys these drug buyers. Participants in wrecking their own communities.
Me, near the bottom of the page. I look forward to your apology. | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:36 - Feb 18 with 3247 views | lowhouseblue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:32 - Feb 18 by jeera |
They'll take the strongest hit available at the cheapest price.
Thing with addicts is they will only be offered medically enough to wean them off, not to feed their habit continually forever. Usually a substitute under controlled circumstances.
That's support for someone who wants to rehab but no use to anyone who wants to continue using.
And to those types then no amount of substitutes will compare to the real thing available on the street.
I'm sure I'm missing some points here so excuse me - I've not followed the thread.
I'm just unsure why addicts are being discussed in the same thread as recreational users when it comes to debating legalising, as they're different subjects requiring altogether different approaches. [Post edited 18 Feb 2020 19:35]
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but how in practice would a legalised drugs market differentiate between addicts and recreational users? how will the free market be prevented from supplying to addicts? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:37 - Feb 18 with 3241 views | BrixtonBlue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:27 - Feb 18 by sparks |
"Talk to any doctor or even high up cops and they will tell you the biggest battle is with ignorance as displayed by clueless righties who oppose progressive work in this area at every turn
Thankfully the worldis changing and the UK is slowly making the necessary changes - away from bigotry and ignorance. " |
Indeed, and in what way is that saying that it is "now bigotry to note that drug dealing is causing harm"?
You've actually pasted a quote that disproves your point! | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:38 - Feb 18 with 3239 views | jeera |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:36 - Feb 18 by lowhouseblue |
but how in practice would a legalised drugs market differentiate between addicts and recreational users? how will the free market be prevented from supplying to addicts? |
Agree. It can't. | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:39 - Feb 18 with 3230 views | eireblue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:36 - Feb 18 by lowhouseblue |
but how in practice would a legalised drugs market differentiate between addicts and recreational users? how will the free market be prevented from supplying to addicts? |
How should it work today with nicotine, alcohol and gambling? | | | |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:40 - Feb 18 with 3223 views | sparks |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:37 - Feb 18 by BrixtonBlue |
Indeed, and in what way is that saying that it is "now bigotry to note that drug dealing is causing harm"?
You've actually pasted a quote that disproves your point! |
No- he is accusing people disagree with him of being bigots and righties for the views espoused in this thread. If you really can't see that, then you are too closely wed to your own arguments and need a step back. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:40 - Feb 18 with 3221 views | sparks |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:34 - Feb 18 by BrixtonBlue |
If you buy illegal drugs by chicoazul 17 Feb 2020 17:25these are the kind of people you are funding and the activities in which you are complicit, all for your bit of fun; https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/16/hell-on-sea-dawlish-drugs-gang-geordies
Great guys these drug buyers. Participants in wrecking their own communities.
Me, near the bottom of the page. I look forward to your apology. |
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| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:41 - Feb 18 with 3215 views | Lord_Lucan |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 18:53 - Feb 18 by BrixtonBlue |
Would you go for a pure, doctor prescribed drug or buy something you don't know what it's been cut with from a dealer outside Brixton KFC?
I know which I'd choose. |
If you actually read the thread you donut you will see that I am largely in favour of decriminalising class A's and if you do so you need somewhere like a smart shop to buy them from.
I don't know who you are arguing with actually | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:43 - Feb 18 with 3207 views | jeera |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:41 - Feb 18 by Lord_Lucan |
If you actually read the thread you donut you will see that I am largely in favour of decriminalising class A's and if you do so you need somewhere like a smart shop to buy them from.
I don't know who you are arguing with actually |
Maybe he means the KFC is the added threat to public health there.
It's a fair point if so. | |
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