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Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? 17:56 - Feb 19 with 2303 viewstractordownsouth

And from the perspective of the people you'd most like to lead the country, not the party. So if you're a Tory supporter, which people would make you most likely to vote Labour.


Leader:

Lisa Nandy
Keir Starmer
Rebecca Long Bailey

Would be happy with either of the top 2 becoming leader. RLB has impressed me as more charismatic than I previously gave her credit for but I'm not keen on us running on an almost identical manifesto, even if she's more competent and doesn't have the skeletons in the closet that JC has. I've been disappointed with Starmer for his lack of policy outline but is generally a skilled operator and I'd trust him to maintain the popular elements of the manifesto, such as rail nationalisation, without overloading it with things like broadband etc. - he's made a point of this. Nandy makes the top of my list as I feel she's likely to have the best appeal with the swing voters and will be strong enough to hold the Tories to account.


Deputy:

Angela Rayner
Ian Murray
Roseena Allin Khan
Dawn Butler
Richard Burgon

There's a massive difference between the competency of the top 3 and Butler and Burgon, I don't want either of them anywhere near the leadership: Burgon's peace pledge just seems like posturing and he seems more preoccupied with maintaining ideological purity than actually winning elections. Whilst it wasn't her fault specifically, I think Butler has to take some of the blame, as equalities spokesperson, for the lack of action with anti semitism. I haven't seen a great deal of Allin Khan, although Lisa Nandy told me after the Bristol hustings that she'll have her in her Shadow Cabinet if she wins (exclusive info for you there!) Ruth Smeeth has endorsed Murray, claiming he showed the most desire to deal with the Anti- Semitism crisis, which is a positive. I don't like geting into identity politics, but I think having a prominent Scottish Labour voice in the media would help address the disconnect between the party and the post-2015 SNP voters. I'd be happy with either Murray or Rayner, as I think the latter speaks well and embodies what Labour is all about with her life story.

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Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 10:19 - Feb 20 with 654 viewsDarth_Koont

Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 10:10 - Feb 20 by WestStanderLaLaLa

Can you expand on the bigger target? I’m interested as whoever wins needs to have nothing the press can stuck into, or at least be able to defend effectively against them.


They'll be all over Nandy for her Marxist Indian father. And even the JLM who nominated her are within days trying to attack her pro-Palestinian support. She serves a purpose for them only if they can get her exactly where they want her.

For all that Starmer appears "boring", it's that solidity and impressive but steady career inside and outside of politics that gives the press and political attack dogs little to get their teeth into. His commitment to the essential thrust of the recent manifesto was also encouraging and I think that he'll be able to promote the "loony" but necessary policies much more easily than the others.
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Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 10:22 - Feb 20 with 649 viewsfooters

Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 10:19 - Feb 20 by Darth_Koont

They'll be all over Nandy for her Marxist Indian father. And even the JLM who nominated her are within days trying to attack her pro-Palestinian support. She serves a purpose for them only if they can get her exactly where they want her.

For all that Starmer appears "boring", it's that solidity and impressive but steady career inside and outside of politics that gives the press and political attack dogs little to get their teeth into. His commitment to the essential thrust of the recent manifesto was also encouraging and I think that he'll be able to promote the "loony" but necessary policies much more easily than the others.


Starmer will be "posh", "out of touch", etc. While BoJo and JRM are just like yer mates down the pub :)

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Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 10:27 - Feb 20 with 633 viewsthebooks

Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 09:41 - Feb 20 by tractordownsouth

The focus on towns and regional inequality is a good thing. On the whole, New Labour were highly successful but failed to address these issues. I’m not sure how to post photos on here but there’s a graphic showing that 9/10 of the poorest regions in Western Europe are in the UK, and London is the single richest. And of those 9 poorest areas, 8 voted to leave, which shows the discontent across the country with regional inequality, and that these are the people we need to win back.

I don’t think she’s a social conservative either, she’s signed up to the Trans pledges and voted for gay marriage, as well as making a point that we won’t have “control immigration” mugs again. I don’t really see how her views are a problem.


London has the greatest inequality in Britain – I think Tower Hamlets is the poorest region. That's what I mean about focusing on towns: they’re not the only places experiencing problems.

Within these towns Labour still gets the vote of the under-45s by some distance. They’re more likely to be renting, in zero hour contracts etc. than the over 50s. This is probably where there’s a split, rather than between town and city. It’s best represented by Brexit.

The stuff about bringing council leaders onto the NEC is disingenuous in the extreme. It’ll simply result in Blairite control of policy.

My concern is that ”town” becomes a shorthand for narrow-minded, provincial and other uglier terms, when Labour is stronger and more natural as an internationalist, outward looking party.

But yes, Nandy is liberal over gay marriage, trans-rights etc. I think she’ll have to tread a tight line on immigration, though.
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Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 10:34 - Feb 20 with 624 viewschicoazul

Leader; Antonio Gramsci
Deputy; Georg Hegel just for the bantz

I have it in commission, to comfort the feeble-minded, and to support the weak. You must needs go along with us; we will wait for you, we will lend you our help, we will deny ourselves of some things, both opinionated and practical, for your sake; we will not enter into doubtful disputations before you, we will be made all things to you, rather than you shall be left behind
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Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 10:35 - Feb 20 with 623 viewschicoazul

Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 10:27 - Feb 20 by thebooks

London has the greatest inequality in Britain – I think Tower Hamlets is the poorest region. That's what I mean about focusing on towns: they’re not the only places experiencing problems.

Within these towns Labour still gets the vote of the under-45s by some distance. They’re more likely to be renting, in zero hour contracts etc. than the over 50s. This is probably where there’s a split, rather than between town and city. It’s best represented by Brexit.

The stuff about bringing council leaders onto the NEC is disingenuous in the extreme. It’ll simply result in Blairite control of policy.

My concern is that ”town” becomes a shorthand for narrow-minded, provincial and other uglier terms, when Labour is stronger and more natural as an internationalist, outward looking party.

But yes, Nandy is liberal over gay marriage, trans-rights etc. I think she’ll have to tread a tight line on immigration, though.


Every politician pretty much without exception is "liberal" on those things including all the current Government.

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Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 10:51 - Feb 20 with 610 viewsitfcjoe

Struggling to split Nandy and Starmer so will wait before finalising vote, but at the moment edging towards Starmer - think we need someone who can just continually destroy Johnson on the detail and make him look clueless rather. Both have good backstories and Starmer's seems squeakier clean though which will help as not much is going to stick to him.

I've got little time for RLB, she just doesn't engage me at all, and think she is massively misreading the last election

1 - Starmer
2 - Nandy
3 - RLB

Deputy, I really like Allin-Khan - seems sensible but passionate, and someone who I want to listen to when they are talking. And I like Murray, and think getting a Scot back at the head of the party is important.

1 - Allin-Khan
2 - Murray
3 - Rayner
4 - Brent
5 - Burgon

Issue that leaves is it is 2 London MPs as my preference, but can't try and game the system and need to vote for the best condidates

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Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 11:01 - Feb 20 with 596 viewsthebooks

Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 10:19 - Feb 20 by Darth_Koont

They'll be all over Nandy for her Marxist Indian father. And even the JLM who nominated her are within days trying to attack her pro-Palestinian support. She serves a purpose for them only if they can get her exactly where they want her.

For all that Starmer appears "boring", it's that solidity and impressive but steady career inside and outside of politics that gives the press and political attack dogs little to get their teeth into. His commitment to the essential thrust of the recent manifesto was also encouraging and I think that he'll be able to promote the "loony" but necessary policies much more easily than the others.


I do get this thinking about Starmer unifying everything and his perceived competence.

But his CPS history would be used against him however little he was involved in individual cases (over Worboys, probably). Just comes with the territory.
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Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 11:02 - Feb 20 with 595 viewsDarth_Koont

Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 10:22 - Feb 20 by footers

Starmer will be "posh", "out of touch", etc. While BoJo and JRM are just like yer mates down the pub :)


I don't disagree they'll try it. But that line doesn't exactly fit with his family and upbringing which is starkly different from Boris and Jacob.

I'm sure they're having workshops about the Keir Konundrum somewhere.
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Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 11:04 - Feb 20 with 593 viewsDarth_Koont

Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 11:01 - Feb 20 by thebooks

I do get this thinking about Starmer unifying everything and his perceived competence.

But his CPS history would be used against him however little he was involved in individual cases (over Worboys, probably). Just comes with the territory.


Yes. There'll always be something.

Bit harder to smear though if these cases are part of a documented, legal process.
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Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 12:04 - Feb 20 with 547 viewsm14_blue

Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 10:35 - Feb 20 by chicoazul

Every politician pretty much without exception is "liberal" on those things including all the current Government.


JRM?

Buckland, Morgan and Patel all also voted against legalising gay marriage .
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Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 12:07 - Feb 20 with 545 viewsBackToRussia

Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 09:04 - Feb 20 by Steve_M

Leader:

Starmer
Nandy










RLB


Deputy.

Murray/RAK/Rayner





Butler




































































































































Burgon


What has Burgon actually done to attract such ire?

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Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 12:16 - Feb 20 with 531 viewstractordownsouth

Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 12:07 - Feb 20 by BackToRussia

What has Burgon actually done to attract such ire?


I think he's actually quite a good speaker, but has all the wrong priorities. He seems quite intent on simply maintaining ideolgoical purity of the party, rather than winning - he has advocated the re-implementation of Clause 4. I also dislike his peace pledge as a mechanism of influencing Labour MPs votes on military intervention - MPs should be representative of the views of their constituents and not party membership. He's also refused to adopt the 10 anti- semitism pledges and his reasons for doing so, (which he outlined with Sophy Ridge on Sky) aren't very well thought out.

He's also voiced his support for the Venezuelan Government and spoke at a memorial for Fidel Castro, which would be gold dust for the Daily Mail.

Poll: Who's Grimboy?
Blog: Season Preview 2015/16

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Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 12:19 - Feb 20 with 522 viewsBackToRussia

Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 12:16 - Feb 20 by tractordownsouth

I think he's actually quite a good speaker, but has all the wrong priorities. He seems quite intent on simply maintaining ideolgoical purity of the party, rather than winning - he has advocated the re-implementation of Clause 4. I also dislike his peace pledge as a mechanism of influencing Labour MPs votes on military intervention - MPs should be representative of the views of their constituents and not party membership. He's also refused to adopt the 10 anti- semitism pledges and his reasons for doing so, (which he outlined with Sophy Ridge on Sky) aren't very well thought out.

He's also voiced his support for the Venezuelan Government and spoke at a memorial for Fidel Castro, which would be gold dust for the Daily Mail.


His clause 4 thing is about putting public ownership into Labour's constitution, right? Seems like a good idea, and it would surely be broadly popular within the Labour party itself?

I don't see why the peace pledge thing is a bad idea. The Iraq war had 1million people on the streets marching against it but it still passed. He is trying to address the fact that it was a hugely unpopular war, and yet MPs and Parliament voted it through. Short of a public plebiscite I see this as a good step.

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Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 12:27 - Feb 20 with 506 viewstractordownsouth

Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 12:19 - Feb 20 by BackToRussia

His clause 4 thing is about putting public ownership into Labour's constitution, right? Seems like a good idea, and it would surely be broadly popular within the Labour party itself?

I don't see why the peace pledge thing is a bad idea. The Iraq war had 1million people on the streets marching against it but it still passed. He is trying to address the fact that it was a hugely unpopular war, and yet MPs and Parliament voted it through. Short of a public plebiscite I see this as a good step.


I'm definitely in support of rail and water nationalisation, but I don't see the need for a committment to nationalise all the utilities - I think it needs to be a case by case basis. One of the reasons we lost so heavily was the overloading of the manifesto - I think with just a few changes, it will come across much more credibly.

My issue with the peace pledge is that I don't think it's the Labour members that the MPs should be representing, it's their consitituents. Whilst views of the membership are important, part of the problem we're having is because the manifesto and political positions of the party have reflected the views of Labour supporters, rather than the wider electorate.

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Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 12:28 - Feb 20 with 501 viewsWD19

Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 22:38 - Feb 19 by StokieBlue

Did you know that Doctor Earman is an anagram of A traced moron?

Fairly apt given the carbon copy trolls on here.

SB


Hmmmmm 'Obtuse Elk, I'

.....and so it becomes clear.......
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Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 12:29 - Feb 20 with 500 viewsBackToRussia

Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 12:27 - Feb 20 by tractordownsouth

I'm definitely in support of rail and water nationalisation, but I don't see the need for a committment to nationalise all the utilities - I think it needs to be a case by case basis. One of the reasons we lost so heavily was the overloading of the manifesto - I think with just a few changes, it will come across much more credibly.

My issue with the peace pledge is that I don't think it's the Labour members that the MPs should be representing, it's their consitituents. Whilst views of the membership are important, part of the problem we're having is because the manifesto and political positions of the party have reflected the views of Labour supporters, rather than the wider electorate.


Those seem reasonable enough points, I just don't see how that translates to Steve M treating him like he's Hitler or something. Some of the stuff I've seen on Twitter against him is mad.

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Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 12:29 - Feb 20 with 501 viewsClapham_Junction

Leader:

Starmer
Nandy
Long-Bailey

For me, Starmer is miles ahead of the other two. I think he's the most statesmanlike, is in favour of continuing with many of the party's socio-economic policies, and seems to be the only one of the three capable of appealing to both sides of the party. I wouldn't give either Nandy or RLB a second preference. Nandy's comments on Scotland were clueless and RLB is completely uninspiring.

For deputy I am undecided between Allin-Khan and Rayner. Burgon is the worst possible candidate, Butler would probably attract too much flak and I am not convinced by Murray.
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Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 13:14 - Feb 20 with 458 viewschicoazul

Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 12:04 - Feb 20 by m14_blue

JRM?

Buckland, Morgan and Patel all also voted against legalising gay marriage .


I best if you ask them now they will say they changed their minds!

I have it in commission, to comfort the feeble-minded, and to support the weak. You must needs go along with us; we will wait for you, we will lend you our help, we will deny ourselves of some things, both opinionated and practical, for your sake; we will not enter into doubtful disputations before you, we will be made all things to you, rather than you shall be left behind
Poll: How much are Phil Gav and the elusive Mark looking forward to next Friday?

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Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 14:41 - Feb 20 with 415 viewsm14_blue

Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 13:14 - Feb 20 by chicoazul

I best if you ask them now they will say they changed their minds!


Yeah, you’re probably right tbf.

Obviously they’ll just say what Cummings tells them to say, but it probably would be that.
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Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 15:32 - Feb 20 with 394 viewsRadlett_blue

Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 12:29 - Feb 20 by Clapham_Junction

Leader:

Starmer
Nandy
Long-Bailey

For me, Starmer is miles ahead of the other two. I think he's the most statesmanlike, is in favour of continuing with many of the party's socio-economic policies, and seems to be the only one of the three capable of appealing to both sides of the party. I wouldn't give either Nandy or RLB a second preference. Nandy's comments on Scotland were clueless and RLB is completely uninspiring.

For deputy I am undecided between Allin-Khan and Rayner. Burgon is the worst possible candidate, Butler would probably attract too much flak and I am not convinced by Murray.


If Labour is to be a credible alternative government, Starmer is the only choice. the others will keep Labour policies in control of the leftist fringes. RLB in particular is one of the least impressive politicians I have ever heard speak. with all the charisma of a wind-up Sindy doll.
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Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 16:46 - Feb 20 with 368 viewsconnorscontract

Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 10:35 - Feb 20 by chicoazul

Every politician pretty much without exception is "liberal" on those things including all the current Government.


Incorrect. One member of the Cabinet very much isn't:



But he's "a man of the people", so I'm sure it's fine.
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Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 16:47 - Feb 20 with 365 viewsconnorscontract

Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 12:28 - Feb 20 by WD19

Hmmmmm 'Obtuse Elk, I'

.....and so it becomes clear.......


Stokie Blue is Sprucey?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
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Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 16:54 - Feb 20 with 352 viewsconnorscontract

Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 12:07 - Feb 20 by BackToRussia

What has Burgon actually done to attract such ire?


Have

you

never

heard

him

speak?


You can literally hear him stall for thinking time as he speaks slowly, or puts in placeholders, or repeats himself.

You know how you sometimes meet a Police Inspector who speaks in cliches and well-within tramlines, and you think:

"Blimey, they aren't very impressive, I can't see how they got promoted!" ?

That was what I was like the first time I saw Richard Burgon try and do an interview.

I think the phrase is "thick as mince", which is obviously a touch unfair. Maybe "leaden as a condemned Victorian water pipe" would be better.

To clarify: this is when he is being interviewed and is asked a tough question, or is interrupted. He also speaks quite quickly at times. I've watched a lot of Daily Politics over the last two or three years, and Burgon always made my heart sink.
[Post edited 20 Feb 17:04]
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Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 17:27 - Feb 20 with 326 viewsDoctor_Earman

Given how far-left the Labour Party is nowadays I'd imagine that Karl Marx's ghost for leader and Friedrich Engels' ghost for deputy would be a winning ticket.
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Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 17:40 - Feb 20 with 316 viewsDarth_Koont

Rank your preferences for Labour Leader/ Deputy and why? on 17:27 - Feb 20 by Doctor_Earman

Given how far-left the Labour Party is nowadays I'd imagine that Karl Marx's ghost for leader and Friedrich Engels' ghost for deputy would be a winning ticket.


It's not far left though is it? Unless your knowledge of politics comes from the Mail or the Express.
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