| Lambert is going nowhere 18:25 - Feb 25 with 6399 views | HARRY10 |
There appears to be a belief among some on here that Lambert will leave this summer if we are not promoted. Some clause in his contract it would seem.
So why the extension to his contract ? Why commit him to a contract that can be ended barely six months into it ?
I presume the original contract did not have such a clause so why sign a new contract that foes ?
It is hardly going to enthuse him to plan ahead, look to develop players when a narrow defeat in the playoffs (say) will mean an end to things.
This should tell you what Lambert is expecting
"“We’ll try everything and they’re still developing some of them, the older lads are probably at the wrong age of 30, and you can never defeat time, that’s always going to be there, and that has to change at some point,” Lambert said.
“Once that decision comes that you have to retire it isn’t great, but you have to get your head around it and then you finish, and then the future generations take it on." Jan 2020
as those are not the words of someone looking at the next 6 months only.
And is there really a manager out there who could come in and immediately transform the squad into what's needed after so long a slide ? |  | | |  |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 19:41 - Feb 25 with 2387 views | HARRY10 |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 19:30 - Feb 25 by Herbivore |
Not by much though and by the time the season is out he will have failed for a similar length of time as them. |
Neither of those two we spoken of as being part of a longer term plan.
Their's was one of promotion at all costs.
Those costs are now being felt.
Lambert has been tasked with re-building on a long term basis.
It is only those who thought, and still do, that we should get promotion as a certainty this season who regard him as a failure.
Whereas the real failure would have been to go hell for leather at getting promoted by selling promising youngsters to fund that attempt. Then what ?
Go up with a squad unable to fund any improvement, or see next season as one with the better youngsters gone and no means of raising funds for improvement ? | | | |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 19:47 - Feb 25 with 2380 views | JDB23 |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 18:43 - Feb 25 by BlueBadger |
I quite agree that constantly sacking managers is recipe for disaster. But so is constantly indulging sh1t managers for far, far too long. and Lambert, like Keane and Jewell has been indulged for too long. Hell, Lambert's gone further than those two ever did and has not only succeeded in getting us relegated, but is looking ever more likely to keep us relegated. [Post edited 25 Feb 2020 18:44]
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Never really understood where this “sacking managers all the time is bad” comes from. Some of the most successful clubs of recent times are notorious P45ers. Look at Wolves, Leicester, Sheff Utd, all teams that were constantly changing managers until they found the right one. You really don’t needs 2/3/4 years to figure out if a manager is useless or not, giving them more time is rarely beneficial. | | | |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 19:53 - Feb 25 with 2373 views | Herbivore |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 19:41 - Feb 25 by HARRY10 |
Neither of those two we spoken of as being part of a longer term plan.
Their's was one of promotion at all costs.
Those costs are now being felt.
Lambert has been tasked with re-building on a long term basis.
It is only those who thought, and still do, that we should get promotion as a certainty this season who regard him as a failure.
Whereas the real failure would have been to go hell for leather at getting promoted by selling promising youngsters to fund that attempt. Then what ?
Go up with a squad unable to fund any improvement, or see next season as one with the better youngsters gone and no means of raising funds for improvement ? |
That first but is not true, Jewell and Evans often spoke about having a long term plan, it wasn't promotion or bust.
Those fans who think Lambert has failed represent a significant majority of fans because he has failed. He took us down without a fight, hasn't improved us this season, and won't take us back up.
I don't know why you're now talking about selling the youngsters. We didn't need to do that to fund a promotion push. The squad as is with the additions Lambert was backed to make ought to be plenty good enough. Sadly we have a manager who is a complete busted flush who won't get another job after we inevitably sack him. And if his remit has been to develop the youngsters for the long term, he's failed in that too. Only 5 sides have given fewer minutes to young players than us. Another black mark against Lambert.
If you think he has a long term strategy I'd be interested to know what you think it is. I'd also be interested to know what evidence you're drawing on to think he's capable of implementing it. [Post edited 25 Feb 2020 19:56]
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| Lambert is going nowhere on 22:51 - Feb 25 with 2320 views | HARRY10 |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 19:53 - Feb 25 by Herbivore |
That first but is not true, Jewell and Evans often spoke about having a long term plan, it wasn't promotion or bust.
Those fans who think Lambert has failed represent a significant majority of fans because he has failed. He took us down without a fight, hasn't improved us this season, and won't take us back up.
I don't know why you're now talking about selling the youngsters. We didn't need to do that to fund a promotion push. The squad as is with the additions Lambert was backed to make ought to be plenty good enough. Sadly we have a manager who is a complete busted flush who won't get another job after we inevitably sack him. And if his remit has been to develop the youngsters for the long term, he's failed in that too. Only 5 sides have given fewer minutes to young players than us. Another black mark against Lambert.
If you think he has a long term strategy I'd be interested to know what you think it is. I'd also be interested to know what evidence you're drawing on to think he's capable of implementing it. [Post edited 25 Feb 2020 19:56]
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Those are fans who thought that all was ok when MM left. Similarly when Lambert arrived. A few tweaks here and there and we would be soon challenging for a PL place.
The squad is not 'plenty good enough' as results have shown. Too many don't look committed or up to what is needed. PL players will find another club because of the money sloshing about. In L1 you cannot rid yourself of unwanted players. Thay won't take a lower contract elsewhere, so it is too often a case of waiting till their contract runs down.
Assuming we were at maximum expenditure by January then any additions to the squad would have has to be funded by sales. Hence selling youngsters.
And given that I have not claimed to be full in favour of Lambert it is not my responsibility to defend him. I am merely pointing out why he won't leave this summer. | | | |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 23:00 - Feb 25 with 2316 views | TheTrueBlue1878 |
Whether the fans want Lambert here or not. He will be here long term.
A lot has to change and this football club for it to become a fairly well oiled machine. Very much a broken engine at the moment. |  |
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| Lambert is going nowhere on 23:06 - Feb 25 with 2312 views | Herbivore |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 23:00 - Feb 25 by TheTrueBlue1878 |
Whether the fans want Lambert here or not. He will be here long term.
A lot has to change and this football club for it to become a fairly well oiled machine. Very much a broken engine at the moment. |
Disagree on that first point. He's shown nothing to suggest he's the man for the long term project and I can't see it lasting for him here. Now the PR has worn off there's really nothing left to him. | |
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| Lambert is going nowhere on 00:22 - Feb 26 with 2285 views | HARRY10 |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 23:06 - Feb 25 by Herbivore |
Disagree on that first point. He's shown nothing to suggest he's the man for the long term project and I can't see it lasting for him here. Now the PR has worn off there's really nothing left to him. |
Other than Evans giving him probably the longest contract in our history. So it's likely that those who can measure what he is doing think that will pay off.
You seem to think that langishing in the 2nd tier for 17 years was just a bit of 'bad luck' that could be turned round in a few months. That losing between £7-9m income (almost halved it) while still having a fair number on higher contracts than most L1 clubs was also going to be sorted in a few months over the summer.
The only real failing is those who are unable to recognise how far we have fallen over those 17 seasos and what it will take to rebuild again
Lose aged retainers like Chambers and Poor X scuse and as many fringe players as possible and we might be able fund a rebuilding. With a smaller sized squad, a better funded scouting system and pushing back against the budgies who have their 'tanks parked on our lawn' as far as schools are concerned.
If few players are coming through the youth system in L1 then how on earth would they have even got on the bench in the Championship.
What's left is what you don't see.
Have a strop because the reality of the situation has became obvious. Much as Lambert being here for the long term is.
Get used to it. | | | |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 07:15 - Feb 26 with 2241 views | BackToRussia |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 00:22 - Feb 26 by HARRY10 |
Other than Evans giving him probably the longest contract in our history. So it's likely that those who can measure what he is doing think that will pay off.
You seem to think that langishing in the 2nd tier for 17 years was just a bit of 'bad luck' that could be turned round in a few months. That losing between £7-9m income (almost halved it) while still having a fair number on higher contracts than most L1 clubs was also going to be sorted in a few months over the summer.
The only real failing is those who are unable to recognise how far we have fallen over those 17 seasos and what it will take to rebuild again
Lose aged retainers like Chambers and Poor X scuse and as many fringe players as possible and we might be able fund a rebuilding. With a smaller sized squad, a better funded scouting system and pushing back against the budgies who have their 'tanks parked on our lawn' as far as schools are concerned.
If few players are coming through the youth system in L1 then how on earth would they have even got on the bench in the Championship.
What's left is what you don't see.
Have a strop because the reality of the situation has became obvious. Much as Lambert being here for the long term is.
Get used to it. |
You are completely guessing what ME will do if we don't get promoted, or, as looks likely, not even make the playoffs.
There is every chance he will sack him, I'd put it at about 50/50 chance given what's come out about the 5 year deal. |  |
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| Lambert is going nowhere on 07:22 - Feb 26 with 2238 views | Herbivore |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 00:22 - Feb 26 by HARRY10 |
Other than Evans giving him probably the longest contract in our history. So it's likely that those who can measure what he is doing think that will pay off.
You seem to think that langishing in the 2nd tier for 17 years was just a bit of 'bad luck' that could be turned round in a few months. That losing between £7-9m income (almost halved it) while still having a fair number on higher contracts than most L1 clubs was also going to be sorted in a few months over the summer.
The only real failing is those who are unable to recognise how far we have fallen over those 17 seasos and what it will take to rebuild again
Lose aged retainers like Chambers and Poor X scuse and as many fringe players as possible and we might be able fund a rebuilding. With a smaller sized squad, a better funded scouting system and pushing back against the budgies who have their 'tanks parked on our lawn' as far as schools are concerned.
If few players are coming through the youth system in L1 then how on earth would they have even got on the bench in the Championship.
What's left is what you don't see.
Have a strop because the reality of the situation has became obvious. Much as Lambert being here for the long term is.
Get used to it. |
Nice bit of condescension there. Newsflash for you, you're not remotely bright enough to carry it off. | |
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| Lambert is going nowhere on 07:26 - Feb 26 with 2236 views | Herbivore |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 07:15 - Feb 26 by BackToRussia |
You are completely guessing what ME will do if we don't get promoted, or, as looks likely, not even make the playoffs.
There is every chance he will sack him, I'd put it at about 50/50 chance given what's come out about the 5 year deal. |
He is guessing whilst accusing everyone else of being clueless, which is quite amusing really. He then makes up a load of straw men to argue against a position nobody is taking and does so in a really patronising way. He does this on politics threads as well. It's very odd.
Lambert doesn't have a clue, it's pretty obvious. Whether ME will see that or not I'm not 100% convinced but he's got rid of similarly clueless managers after similar lengths of time in the past and I suspect when he sees the mood amongst the fans and a drop in ST sales his hand may well be forced. | |
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| Lambert is going nowhere on 07:36 - Feb 26 with 2229 views | Chrisd |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 19:11 - Feb 25 by HARRY10 |
You would think this was reasonably easy to grasp
https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/evans-on-why-itfc-boss-lambert-needs-time-1-6458885
but it has to be set against a delusion of 'where we should be'.
We were relegated, it would seem, solely down to some cruel trick of fate, rather than a long term decline caused by short term planning.
The scum stuck with their manager. They got in someone who slowly cleared the decks of coaches and players. They are fairly certain to be relegated as they have chosen to take a longer term view of things - and will hit the Championship with two years parachute payments and player sales that will raise a fair whack.
We need an almost club rebuild, not just a squad rebuild..That does not happen overnight and shifting on players is not easy when their contracts are better tha L1/2 clubs can offer..
Bart talked on the 'failing attitude within the squad last season.. We may bot be failing but I don't see a ruthless determination either. That can only come about by shifting the deadwood.... and that takes time. |
My question would be what building blocks has PL actually put in place? If you could see what he was trying to create and achieve, I'd be far more patient and more willing to accept another season in L1. However, nothing much has really happened. We've got a lot of the squad that simply aren't good enough still playing, this emphasis of using our youth hasn't really materialised apart from Woolfenden and Downes and we have no identity in the way that we play and are on a horrendous run of results, pretty much like last season. We just look no further forward as a team or a club, we just don't appear to be building anything. I worry that ME will revert back to the belief that it takes time and PL needs that to change things around and that does make sense to a degree, but PL has had 3 transfer windows now and still we look clueless and no further forward. | |
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| Lambert is going nowhere on 07:48 - Feb 26 with 2222 views | Herbivore |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 07:36 - Feb 26 by Chrisd |
My question would be what building blocks has PL actually put in place? If you could see what he was trying to create and achieve, I'd be far more patient and more willing to accept another season in L1. However, nothing much has really happened. We've got a lot of the squad that simply aren't good enough still playing, this emphasis of using our youth hasn't really materialised apart from Woolfenden and Downes and we have no identity in the way that we play and are on a horrendous run of results, pretty much like last season. We just look no further forward as a team or a club, we just don't appear to be building anything. I worry that ME will revert back to the belief that it takes time and PL needs that to change things around and that does make sense to a degree, but PL has had 3 transfer windows now and still we look clueless and no further forward. |
This is the key point, there's no evidence of progress. We aren't playing better, we're not getting more cohesive, he's not bringing through the youngsters. There's no sign of progress to be seen in anything related to us actually being good at football again. And looking at PL's managerial career, where is the evidence there that he's the man for a successful long term project? Norwich possibly but that's going back nearly a decade and he's had numerous short term failures since then. [Post edited 26 Feb 2020 7:50]
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| Lambert is going nowhere on 07:57 - Feb 26 with 2200 views | Chrisd |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 07:48 - Feb 26 by Herbivore |
This is the key point, there's no evidence of progress. We aren't playing better, we're not getting more cohesive, he's not bringing through the youngsters. There's no sign of progress to be seen in anything related to us actually being good at football again. And looking at PL's managerial career, where is the evidence there that he's the man for a successful long term project? Norwich possibly but that's going back nearly a decade and he's had numerous short term failures since then. [Post edited 26 Feb 2020 7:50]
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Some of those appointments were a hiding to nothing. However, this project provided an exciting challenge and a blank canvas to a certain degree. He talked a good game up to that point and in what he said he needed to follow through on and he simply hasn't. The summer was the time to build, plan the team, formation and work on the strategy in going forwards, but he seems like he's just sat on his hands and done literally nothing. [Post edited 26 Feb 2020 8:00]
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| Lambert is going nowhere on 08:03 - Feb 26 with 2186 views | Herbivore |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 07:57 - Feb 26 by Chrisd |
Some of those appointments were a hiding to nothing. However, this project provided an exciting challenge and a blank canvas to a certain degree. He talked a good game up to that point and in what he said he needed to follow through on and he simply hasn't. The summer was the time to build, plan the team, formation and work on the strategy in going forwards, but he seems like he's just sat on his hands and done literally nothing. [Post edited 26 Feb 2020 8:00]
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He had a bit of a free hit last season as well really. Come January we were basically down and whilst I can understand the urge to spend money on expensive loanees to try and stay up, they ended up not doing much and we squandered a fair bit of cash as a result. That didn't really smack of long term planning. The last several games of the season were a chance to really embed a shape and a style of play and blood some youngsters, but that didn't really happen either. I think we strengthened in the right areas in the summer but the signings have been rather hit and miss and we still have a huge issue around having no real playing identity or a system that consistently works for us. We're 18 months in now; even in a long term project you'd expect to start seeing some signs of progress at this point. [Post edited 26 Feb 2020 8:07]
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| Lambert is going nowhere on 08:11 - Feb 26 with 2181 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 07:48 - Feb 26 by Herbivore |
This is the key point, there's no evidence of progress. We aren't playing better, we're not getting more cohesive, he's not bringing through the youngsters. There's no sign of progress to be seen in anything related to us actually being good at football again. And looking at PL's managerial career, where is the evidence there that he's the man for a successful long term project? Norwich possibly but that's going back nearly a decade and he's had numerous short term failures since then. [Post edited 26 Feb 2020 7:50]
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I don't disagree with the points made here but ultimately Evans gave him a 5 year deal off the back of a run of 4 wins in 18 games (one of those in the FA Cup) and 11 points out of a possible 36 in the League. The issues highlighted below were all rearing their head before that contract was issued. Evans/O'Neill have never indicated promotion this season was the remit.
I don't see anything in Evans words or actions that make me think he will sack Lambert. If ST sales fall through the floor he may have to think. But even then it might be a financial weigh up of revenue lost vs the cost of sacking a manager that presumably has a chunky pay out even if it isn't the full remaining 4.5 years. You've also got the last time he bowed to pressure with MM which hardly ended well for him. [Post edited 26 Feb 2020 8:13]
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| Lambert is going nowhere on 08:18 - Feb 26 with 2164 views | Herbivore |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 08:11 - Feb 26 by tractorboy1978 |
I don't disagree with the points made here but ultimately Evans gave him a 5 year deal off the back of a run of 4 wins in 18 games (one of those in the FA Cup) and 11 points out of a possible 36 in the League. The issues highlighted below were all rearing their head before that contract was issued. Evans/O'Neill have never indicated promotion this season was the remit.
I don't see anything in Evans words or actions that make me think he will sack Lambert. If ST sales fall through the floor he may have to think. But even then it might be a financial weigh up of revenue lost vs the cost of sacking a manager that presumably has a chunky pay out even if it isn't the full remaining 4.5 years. You've also got the last time he bowed to pressure with MM which hardly ended well for him. [Post edited 26 Feb 2020 8:13]
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The contract was all agreed back in October when we are top of the league. Things have changed quite a bit since then. | |
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| Lambert is going nowhere on 08:22 - Feb 26 with 2163 views | Chrisd |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 08:18 - Feb 26 by Herbivore |
The contract was all agreed back in October when we are top of the league. Things have changed quite a bit since then. |
Was it though? PL was 'booing' a lot in the lead up to Christmas and afterwards, that's why it came as a complete shock with the announcement prior to the Wycombe game away. I feel many of us, me included, were expecting him to get the boot. | |
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| Lambert is going nowhere on 08:25 - Feb 26 with 2160 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 08:18 - Feb 26 by Herbivore |
The contract was all agreed back in October when we are top of the league. Things have changed quite a bit since then. |
Agreed in principle maybe, but it wasn't signed until New Year's Day was it? [Post edited 26 Feb 2020 8:26]
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| Lambert is going nowhere on 08:27 - Feb 26 with 2157 views | Herbivore |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 08:22 - Feb 26 by Chrisd |
Was it though? PL was 'booing' a lot in the lead up to Christmas and afterwards, that's why it came as a complete shock with the announcement prior to the Wycombe game away. I feel many of us, me included, were expecting him to get the boot. |
Yes, it was agreed in October. ME and Lambert and a few people on here with insider info have said the same. | |
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| Lambert is going nowhere on 08:28 - Feb 26 with 2153 views | Chrisd |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 08:27 - Feb 26 by Herbivore |
Yes, it was agreed in October. ME and Lambert and a few people on here with insider info have said the same. |
I just wasn't sure Herbivore. Then all his antics leading up to that announcement make his behaviour even more trivial. Get on and prove you deserve the deal by getting promotion, instead of resting on your laurels after a half decent start. He's sat back put his feet up, got his cigar on and thinks the world owes him. He'd done nothing, which makes the timing of it even stranger. ME should've said we've got this deal agreed PL, but lets get up to the Championship and then you can sign it. [Post edited 26 Feb 2020 8:33]
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| Lambert is going nowhere on 08:31 - Feb 26 with 2149 views | Herbivore |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 08:25 - Feb 26 by tractorboy1978 |
Agreed in principle maybe, but it wasn't signed until New Year's Day was it? [Post edited 26 Feb 2020 8:26]
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I'm sure if ME had backed out of the contract in January that Lambert would have walked (remember his comments after the Gillingham or Lincoln game?) and I imagine ME wasn't prepared to gamble on what would have amounted to sacking him at that point in the season. People get hung up on the length of the deal, and rightly so as it was mental, but giving him a 5 year deal is no guarantee he'll be here long term. Managers with long contracts get sacked all the time, there will be clauses in there enabling both parties to get out for an agreed sum. | |
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| Lambert is going nowhere on 08:31 - Feb 26 with 2149 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 08:28 - Feb 26 by Chrisd |
I just wasn't sure Herbivore. Then all his antics leading up to that announcement make his behaviour even more trivial. Get on and prove you deserve the deal by getting promotion, instead of resting on your laurels after a half decent start. He's sat back put his feet up, got his cigar on and thinks the world owes him. He'd done nothing, which makes the timing of it even stranger. ME should've said we've got this deal agreed PL, but lets get up to the Championship and then you can sign it. [Post edited 26 Feb 2020 8:33]
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There is no way that contract was signed, sealed and delivered given his antics post Gillingham on Boxing Day. | | | |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 08:33 - Feb 26 with 2146 views | Herbivore |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 08:31 - Feb 26 by tractorboy1978 |
There is no way that contract was signed, sealed and delivered given his antics post Gillingham on Boxing Day. |
Who has said it was signed? | |
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| Lambert is going nowhere on 08:37 - Feb 26 with 2133 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 08:33 - Feb 26 by Herbivore |
Who has said it was signed? |
Well the insinuation was it was all agreed and no going back after the end of October. Which just wasn't the case. | | | |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 08:44 - Feb 26 with 2124 views | HARRY10 |
| Lambert is going nowhere on 08:03 - Feb 26 by Herbivore |
He had a bit of a free hit last season as well really. Come January we were basically down and whilst I can understand the urge to spend money on expensive loanees to try and stay up, they ended up not doing much and we squandered a fair bit of cash as a result. That didn't really smack of long term planning. The last several games of the season were a chance to really embed a shape and a style of play and blood some youngsters, but that didn't really happen either. I think we strengthened in the right areas in the summer but the signings have been rather hit and miss and we still have a huge issue around having no real playing identity or a system that consistently works for us. We're 18 months in now; even in a long term project you'd expect to start seeing some signs of progress at this point. [Post edited 26 Feb 2020 8:07]
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The long term planning came in after we were relegated. Given the huge financial conseqence of relegation there was everything right about throwing what was available to stay up. And simply 'bloodying' youngsters does not equate to improving them.
It may be that having our income almost halved by relegation played some part in the signings being 'hit and miss'. And I not sure who issues us with our 'real playing identity', but I am aware that some of the donkeys like Chambers and Skuse will have to move on before Lambert can stamp his style on the squad. It will also require players who are fully committed. All too often one good half is all we get.
So maybe what you don't see is the work being done with those who will be here for a while. Building a youth set up where players can step up not fill in when the games no longer matter.
And maybe this will take far longer than some thought. Because for them this is just a small hiccup in the past seventeen years of success.
All we need is the 'right' manager and off we go again. Back to the PL and being in the top two places. And if not, lets boo and hound him out. Because that will certainly attract another manager who will certainly deliver that instant success. | | | |
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