| "We want Evans Out"... 07:05 - Mar 4 with 21851 views | IPS_wich |
Genuinely curious - what's to stop Evans winding us up as a going concern?
There seems to have been a number of indications over the years that he has tried to sell the club but hasn't found anyone interested.
What's to stop him in May, after 2-3 months of growing protests and vitriol aimed at him (because sadly I'm resigned to a mid-table finish), just thinking f**k it, I'm sick of subsidising this nonsense, the fans don't want me, so I'm out...and just putting us into receivership, selling Playford Road and cashing out??
Not that this should temper our protest, but just thinking about the consequences of a sustained campaign of "Evans out" |  | | |  |
| "We want Evans Out"... on 07:10 - Mar 4 with 7196 views | daisyisabaddog |
I posted about this a couple of weeks ago but got shouted down. There is even the possibility that Evans or one of his companies would get tax relief if his loan was written off on Liquidation. He could put the club into administration any time he wants. If no one turns up to fund the losses going forward it could easily end very badly indeed. | | | |
| (No subject) on 07:12 - Mar 4 with 7170 views | TractorWood |
ITFC continuing as a going concern is contingent on the ongoing support of the ME group. If this is withdrawn without finding a buyer or alternative then the club would go to the wall.
Nothing is stopping him from doing this per se other than this would effectively be him writing off his £80m-£100m investment to date. If he really wanted out he would be looking low and high for a buyer. |  |
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| "We want Evans Out"... on 07:15 - Mar 4 with 7143 views | RegencyBlue |
Well he's slowly killing the club anyway so what’s the difference in the longer term?
The where would we be without him mantra has been trotted out for years by his supporters but they never want to answer the obvious question arising from that.
Where will we end up with him? |  | | |
| "We want Evans Out"... on 07:34 - Mar 4 with 7062 views | WeWereZombies |
| "We want Evans Out"... on 07:15 - Mar 4 by RegencyBlue |
Well he's slowly killing the club anyway so what’s the difference in the longer term?
The where would we be without him mantra has been trotted out for years by his supporters but they never want to answer the obvious question arising from that.
Where will we end up with him? |
I think we also have to realise that Ipswich Town are not the only football club in the Universe. There are dozens of other club owners, managers and sets of supporters in the same boat as us.
What this means for the question posed in the original post is that there are also a number of buyers waiting to purchase at a knockdown price (and then try and run the club even more cheaply than Marcus Evans) if the current owners cannot sustain the business side of things - except that did not happen for Bury. Although The Shakers (a sadly appropriate nickname) are still in existence...just. HMRC served winding up petitions at the end of last year and again last month, there is a club in danger of liquidation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bury_F.C.
However I think we have to look at Bury's catchment area and the strong competition for support from bigger and more successful clubs. Not the case with Ipswich and some support base would survive the loss of a moneyed owner, but that does not mean that a viable working football club would not be consigned to a drift down the leagues should a patchwork of local well meaning bods with a bit of cash to spare plus some supporter involvement subsist. |  |
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| (No subject) on 07:37 - Mar 4 with 7041 views | Oxford_Blue |
| (No subject) on 07:12 - Mar 4 by TractorWood |
ITFC continuing as a going concern is contingent on the ongoing support of the ME group. If this is withdrawn without finding a buyer or alternative then the club would go to the wall.
Nothing is stopping him from doing this per se other than this would effectively be him writing off his £80m-£100m investment to date. If he really wanted out he would be looking low and high for a buyer. |
No - the minority shareholders have unfair prejudice rights and could seek to prevent any such decision by Evans. Don’t forget Evans owns 87.5% of the club but the PLC owns the rest. | | | |
| "We want Evans Out"... on 07:41 - Mar 4 with 7017 views | noggin |
Why would he, I imagine he could get 5 million for the club. |  |
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| (No subject) on 07:44 - Mar 4 with 6990 views | Oxford_Blue |
| (No subject) on 07:12 - Mar 4 by TractorWood |
ITFC continuing as a going concern is contingent on the ongoing support of the ME group. If this is withdrawn without finding a buyer or alternative then the club would go to the wall.
Nothing is stopping him from doing this per se other than this would effectively be him writing off his £80m-£100m investment to date. If he really wanted out he would be looking low and high for a buyer. |
The club would go into administration first, which means that a third party would manage it to see if it could continue trading. It would need to sell its best players and balance the books. An advantage is that it doesn’t have any third party debt, so unlike last time there would be no need for any creditors voluntary agreements.
There is a six million pound gap and Evans fills it. | | | |
| ITFC plc shareholders on 07:47 - Mar 4 with 6970 views | WeWereZombies |
| (No subject) on 07:37 - Mar 4 by Oxford_Blue |
No - the minority shareholders have unfair prejudice rights and could seek to prevent any such decision by Evans. Don’t forget Evans owns 87.5% of the club but the PLC owns the rest. |
I do not see my rights as unfair, they are clearly established in law and were there before Marcus Evans turned up (and hopefully, if my existence continues or I successfully pass on the ownership of the shares, will continue after he is gone). We are a noble lot, us ITFC plc shareholders (I always regard it as coarse and overbearing when I see plc in capital letters, tsk, tsk) even if some us have not been to a game in almost three years now. [Post edited 4 Mar 2020 7:56]
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| ITFC plc shareholders on 07:51 - Mar 4 with 6947 views | Oxford_Blue |
| ITFC plc shareholders on 07:47 - Mar 4 by WeWereZombies |
I do not see my rights as unfair, they are clearly established in law and were there before Marcus Evans turned up (and hopefully, if my existence continues or I successfully pass on the ownership of the shares, will continue after he is gone). We are a noble lot, us ITFC plc shareholders (I always regard it as coarse and overbearing when I see plc in capital letters, tsk, tsk) even if some us have not been to a game in almost three years now. [Post edited 4 Mar 2020 7:56]
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Sorry, you misunderstand.
You have common law rights to resist the winding up of the company by a majority shareholder. | | | |
| "We want Evans Out"... on 07:52 - Mar 4 with 6927 views | braveblue |
Large groups do not want the stigma of a failed business which is wound up. It has an immediate and long term impact on the group. He needs to write off some of the debt he has created through stupidity and sell at a reasonable price. | | | |
| "We want Evans Out"... on 08:03 - Mar 4 with 6883 views | WubbleU |
| "We want Evans Out"... on 07:52 - Mar 4 by braveblue |
Large groups do not want the stigma of a failed business which is wound up. It has an immediate and long term impact on the group. He needs to write off some of the debt he has created through stupidity and sell at a reasonable price. |
In the hypothetical scenario of the club being wound up the silver lining would be Portman Road is owned by the council. A Phoenix fan owned club would be formed and we'd get our club back. Rent Portman Road and the adventure begins. Hardest part for recovering clubs which have been abused is sorting the stadium, see Bury, Wimbledon, Brighton etc., etc. We would have a ready made one.
Bring it on, I'm in! | | | |
| ITFC plc shareholders on 08:04 - Mar 4 with 6873 views | WeWereZombies |
| ITFC plc shareholders on 07:51 - Mar 4 by Oxford_Blue |
Sorry, you misunderstand.
You have common law rights to resist the winding up of the company by a majority shareholder. |
Thanks for the clarification, in reality I realise (as I did at the time) that my £200 bought very little, not much more than a right to attend meetings (which I never have done). However, my rights in the event of a winding up order are established under statute, specifically The Insolvency Act 1986, rather than common law, aren't they? | |
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| "We want Evans Out"... on 08:07 - Mar 4 with 6840 views | textbackup |
Would we really see any difference?
In all honesty I’m sure he’d rather sell for £1 than get us fully fcked |  |
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| ITFC plc shareholders on 08:07 - Mar 4 with 6835 views | Oxford_Blue |
| ITFC plc shareholders on 08:04 - Mar 4 by WeWereZombies |
Thanks for the clarification, in reality I realise (as I did at the time) that my £200 bought very little, not much more than a right to attend meetings (which I never have done). However, my rights in the event of a winding up order are established under statute, specifically The Insolvency Act 1986, rather than common law, aren't they? |
Yes - but there is a doctrine of unfair prejudice under the common law before you get to that point.
It’s a complex area of law. A summary is here.
https://www.dcslegal.com/news-and-insights/what-unfair-prejudice
(I’ve got no connection to this firm) | | | |
| "We want Evans Out"... on 08:08 - Mar 4 with 6829 views | Keaneish |
| "We want Evans Out"... on 07:10 - Mar 4 by daisyisabaddog |
I posted about this a couple of weeks ago but got shouted down. There is even the possibility that Evans or one of his companies would get tax relief if his loan was written off on Liquidation. He could put the club into administration any time he wants. If no one turns up to fund the losses going forward it could easily end very badly indeed. |
That would be a PR disaster for the Marcus Evans Corporation. A corporate hospitality venture folding a 140 year old football club because he didn’t fancy it anymore? It’ll never happen. |  |
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| "We want Evans Out"... on 08:10 - Mar 4 with 6809 views | artsbossbeard |
| "We want Evans Out"... on 07:15 - Mar 4 by RegencyBlue |
Well he's slowly killing the club anyway so what’s the difference in the longer term?
The where would we be without him mantra has been trotted out for years by his supporters but they never want to answer the obvious question arising from that.
Where will we end up with him? |
You seem to have avoided the OP question of what happens if ME decides enough is actually enough here. |  |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| "We want Evans Out"... on 08:14 - Mar 4 with 6778 views | monytowbray |
Clubs in a worse state have been sold. Evans could wash his hands of it if he wanted, but evidently, like most rich folk, he could be much richer if he had half a business brain. |  |
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| "We want Evans Out"... on 08:15 - Mar 4 with 6773 views | Oxford_Blue |
| "We want Evans Out"... on 08:08 - Mar 4 by Keaneish |
That would be a PR disaster for the Marcus Evans Corporation. A corporate hospitality venture folding a 140 year old football club because he didn’t fancy it anymore? It’ll never happen. |
Agree. He’s prepared to spend £6m a year to avoid this.
Also he would become a vilified figure (far more than now) and face terrible publicity about failure for destroying an old club connected with ramsey and Robson etc. | | | |
| (No subject) on 08:18 - Mar 4 with 6743 views | textbackup |
| "We want Evans Out"... on 08:10 - Mar 4 by artsbossbeard |
You seem to have avoided the OP question of what happens if ME decides enough is actually enough here. |
If ME said bo110cks to it all I’d actually rather that than be under his ownership.
Someone would take us on, we all know they would.
And we also know ME wouldn’t just pack it in.
He’s the reason we are where we are, his decisions (coupled with an awful manager and powderpuff players) | |
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| (No subject) on 08:22 - Mar 4 with 6720 views | Oxford_Blue |
| (No subject) on 08:18 - Mar 4 by textbackup |
If ME said bo110cks to it all I’d actually rather that than be under his ownership.
Someone would take us on, we all know they would.
And we also know ME wouldn’t just pack it in.
He’s the reason we are where we are, his decisions (coupled with an awful manager and powderpuff players) |
“Someone”
? | | | |
| ITFC plc shareholders on 08:26 - Mar 4 with 6681 views | Moriarty |
| ITFC plc shareholders on 07:51 - Mar 4 by Oxford_Blue |
Sorry, you misunderstand.
You have common law rights to resist the winding up of the company by a majority shareholder. |
Yes, but minority holders don’t have any right to compel the majority owner invest 5M or so each year. |  |
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| "We want Evans Out"... on 08:27 - Mar 4 with 6673 views | WeWereZombies |
| "We want Evans Out"... on 08:14 - Mar 4 by monytowbray |
Clubs in a worse state have been sold. Evans could wash his hands of it if he wanted, but evidently, like most rich folk, he could be much richer if he had half a business brain. |
The marcus evans and THG sports are a big business, although finding even a hand-waving value to place on the Chicago based group looks to be more than the work of a quick Google. The website that comes up is a little out of date (but I do like the news item about the appointment of Paul Jewell as manager):
https://www.marcusevans.com/reviews/news.asp
Or are you assuming that Marcus Evans the man is just a front man who has been given Town as a toy to play with, a puppet, for someone else much more clever behind the organisation? | |
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| ITFC plc shareholders on 08:29 - Mar 4 with 6652 views | Oxford_Blue |
| ITFC plc shareholders on 08:26 - Mar 4 by Moriarty |
Yes, but minority holders don’t have any right to compel the majority owner invest 5M or so each year. |
Agree - but that wasn’t the question. The question was whether Evans could just fold the club.
If he stops the funding, the club goes into administration pretty quickly and then this will create significant negative PR for him. Either way it’s bad for him. Either the club can’t exit administration and goes under (terrible PR for him) or it continues in a far weakened state having had points deducted and sold its best players. | | | |
| (No subject) on 08:30 - Mar 4 with 6649 views | artsbossbeard |
| (No subject) on 08:18 - Mar 4 by textbackup |
If ME said bo110cks to it all I’d actually rather that than be under his ownership.
Someone would take us on, we all know they would.
And we also know ME wouldn’t just pack it in.
He’s the reason we are where we are, his decisions (coupled with an awful manager and powderpuff players) |
I'm expecting to be shot down here but I'm going to say that he's at least tried to do something about things this season.
KVY at £500k must be up there as one of the divisions biggest deals plus paying a significant part of Garbutt's £28k a week wages which, again, increases the wage bill somewhat too.
Picking up on your powderpuff point, their #17 is an absolute grock of a lower league player but managed to boss Andre, Nolan, Judge and get into Chambers last night. Hate to say it but we're crying out for a player like that. | |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| ITFC plc shareholders on 08:43 - Mar 4 with 6568 views | IPS_wich |
| ITFC plc shareholders on 08:29 - Mar 4 by Oxford_Blue |
Agree - but that wasn’t the question. The question was whether Evans could just fold the club.
If he stops the funding, the club goes into administration pretty quickly and then this will create significant negative PR for him. Either way it’s bad for him. Either the club can’t exit administration and goes under (terrible PR for him) or it continues in a far weakened state having had points deducted and sold its best players. |
But I don't get the sense that his business is built upon publicity - we've seen plenty of articles over the years that his business is a global ticketing and conference business. Is winding up a fading third tier* English soccer team living off glory years 40 years in the past really going to impact his ability to sell tickets to the Olympics** or World Cup - or inhibit his ability to fill a conference in Houston??
*that hurt to write
**I'm assuming he's reasonably exposed to tickets at the Olympics - one would imagine that his business will take a hit if they get cancelled due to the Coronavirus. | | | |
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