| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison 22:02 - Mar 4 with 6776 views | Doctor_Earman |
Many (inc. Lambert) constantly refer to the fact that many other 'big' clubs have also found themselves in League 1 at some point. This is true. Therefore I shall show where these clubs finished in their first League 1 seasons after their most recent relegation from the Championship:
Sheffield Wednesday - 15th
Leicester - 1st
Forest - 7th
Leeds - 5th (Lost in play-offs)*
Southampton - 7th**
Wolves - 1st
Sheffield United - 3rd (Lost in play-offs)
Sunderland - 5th (Lost in play-offs)
*15-point deduction
**10-point deduction
Assuming ITFC finish where they are now (9th), that would be the worst first season for a comparable 'big' club in League One since Sheffield Wednesday in 2010-11. Bear in mind however Wednesday had off-field issues and a takeover that season - ITFC have no such problems. This just illustrates further how badly the club is doing. Heck you could even throw in Blackburn and Norwich who finished 2nd and 1st respectively. It's an utter disgrace what's happening to this club. Hopefully the above really crystallises it in people's minds about just how much of a failure this season looks like it will become. |  | | |  |
| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 22:09 - Mar 4 with 4607 views | Swansea_Blue |
Interesting, thanks. |  |
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| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 22:20 - Mar 4 with 4538 views | Felstow1978 |
I thought that a club only qualified for "Big" status when Lambert had graced its1st XI? | |
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| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 01:59 - Mar 5 with 4234 views | BlueBadger |
Cool story bro. |  |
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| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 02:49 - Mar 5 with 4194 views | textbackup |
| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 01:59 - Mar 5 by BlueBadger |
Cool story bro. |
he's actually put in some work on this, as opposed to the same one line sht you add on a daily basis. maybe you could learn a thing or two |  |
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| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 07:35 - Mar 5 with 3974 views | Oxford_Blue |
I’d be interested to also know how long it took each of these clubs to get promoted? This is the true test - not whether a side got in the play offs and lost.
Didn’t it take Leeds and Sheff Utd quite a while?
Portsmouth too? | | | |
| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 07:39 - Mar 5 with 3946 views | Swailsey |
Must admit I hadn’t realised that. Seems those clubs didn’t have a problem with managing the pressure, even if they took a while to get up afterwards.
Thanks for this. |  |
| Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA |
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| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 07:50 - Mar 5 with 3895 views | JDB23 |
| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 07:35 - Mar 5 by Oxford_Blue |
I’d be interested to also know how long it took each of these clubs to get promoted? This is the true test - not whether a side got in the play offs and lost.
Didn’t it take Leeds and Sheff Utd quite a while?
Portsmouth too? |
Leeds were deducted 15 for their first season, would have finished 2nd otherwise. Took another 2 years after that, not sure I would say they 'struggled'.
Regardless of whichever way you look at it, this has been a horrendous season. | | | |
| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 07:52 - Mar 5 with 3876 views | WestStanderLaLaLa |
| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 07:35 - Mar 5 by Oxford_Blue |
I’d be interested to also know how long it took each of these clubs to get promoted? This is the true test - not whether a side got in the play offs and lost.
Didn’t it take Leeds and Sheff Utd quite a while?
Portsmouth too? |
6 seasons for Sheff Utd |  |
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| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 08:20 - Mar 5 with 3784 views | daisyisabaddog |
| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 07:52 - Mar 5 by WestStanderLaLaLa |
6 seasons for Sheff Utd |
And they did it with a brilliant young manager who was financially backed.
Calling us a big club is nonsense. We are a small club that overperfomed between 40 and 60 years ago thanks to a couple of outstanding managerial appointments. Wonderful while it lasted but it doesn't make us a big club now.
The other point about other clubs performances is the state of the club when they went down. In the 16 or 17 years we were in the Championship we were the worst Championship team I had seen. Teams that go straight back are those who have something to build on. Not us I'm afraid | | | |
| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 08:30 - Mar 5 with 3752 views | Oxford_Blue |
| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 08:20 - Mar 5 by daisyisabaddog |
And they did it with a brilliant young manager who was financially backed.
Calling us a big club is nonsense. We are a small club that overperfomed between 40 and 60 years ago thanks to a couple of outstanding managerial appointments. Wonderful while it lasted but it doesn't make us a big club now.
The other point about other clubs performances is the state of the club when they went down. In the 16 or 17 years we were in the Championship we were the worst Championship team I had seen. Teams that go straight back are those who have something to build on. Not us I'm afraid |
We are a big club relative to league one and I think that’s the point - our set up, ground, attendances etc. | | | |
| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 08:32 - Mar 5 with 3747 views | PrideOfTheEast |
Insightful post. Thanks.
Somebody should show PL in the press conference this week when he spouts the usual rubbish. Whilst some of these didn't get promoted straight away they nearly all had much better seasons than ours. | | | |
| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 08:32 - Mar 5 with 3745 views | Herbivore |
| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 08:20 - Mar 5 by daisyisabaddog |
And they did it with a brilliant young manager who was financially backed.
Calling us a big club is nonsense. We are a small club that overperfomed between 40 and 60 years ago thanks to a couple of outstanding managerial appointments. Wonderful while it lasted but it doesn't make us a big club now.
The other point about other clubs performances is the state of the club when they went down. In the 16 or 17 years we were in the Championship we were the worst Championship team I had seen. Teams that go straight back are those who have something to build on. Not us I'm afraid |
Rotherham were a fair bit worse than us in 2016/17 as it goes. They got promoted back up at the first attempt.
This is an interesting thread but one thing it ignores is how much bigger the gap between League 1 and the Championship has got now. So many Championship sides have either parachute payments or owners with deep pockets, any side coming up now tends to struggle with Sheffield United being the exception to that by finishing midtable and then pushing on. In recent seasons, sides that have come down to League 1 have generally done well. 5 of the last 6 relegated sides finished top 6 in their first season, four of them went up. Rotherham look like going straight back up this season.
We should have had a better platform than many of the sides that went back up as well. We didn't lose any players and in fact added to the squad in areas that needed strengthening. We had stability in ownership and management. We had months to prepare ourselves for a season at this level.
The fact is we've cocked it up spectacularly this season when promotion at the first attempt should have been more than achievable. |  |
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| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 08:36 - Mar 5 with 3723 views | Swansea_Blue |
| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 07:39 - Mar 5 by Swailsey |
Must admit I hadn’t realised that. Seems those clubs didn’t have a problem with managing the pressure, even if they took a while to get up afterwards.
Thanks for this. |
No, me neither. I love a bit of context as it can make things seem better. Or worse in this case 😬 | |
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| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 09:02 - Mar 5 with 3660 views | BrixtonBlue |
It, as always, depends how you look at those stats. You've chosen to look at them the most negative way ("the worst first season for a comparable 'big' club in League One since Sheffield Wednesday").
On the other hand, only 2 of that lot went straight back up. Most took a few seasons.
Just playing devil's advocate, but if we finish 7th (very possible) it would be a position that is favourably comparable to most of those 'big' clubs (the same as Forest and Saints, better than Sheff Weds, and only two shy of Leeds and Sunderland).
Thanks for putting the work in. While I agree that Lambert has had a terrible season, I don't think these stats show it to be much worse or better than other comparably big sides that have gone down. |  |
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| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 09:15 - Mar 5 with 3634 views | hampstead_blue |
Great post, thanks.
4 of those teams are now in the Prem
It can take a dip to clear out the dead wood and enable younger and more hungry talent to thrive.
I thought this when we got relegated and hoped we would sweep the decks clear.
In my mind, only Chambers is left to be released and then we can crack on.
Skuse will go into coaching I hope but probably Brizzle.
We also need a different manager to enable this. A shame as I'd hoped PL could do it. |  |
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Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
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| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 09:21 - Mar 5 with 3592 views | ElephantintheRoom |
The real issue is how long it took 'big clubs' to get back. You could add Portsmouth, Charlton and Blackburn to the list | |
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| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 09:21 - Mar 5 with 3597 views | itfcjoe |
There seems a massive amount of revisionism, or lack of knowledge from town fans, who just look at the end result rather than how they got there with regards to Sheffield United.
I read lots about how we need to show ambition like Sheffield United, how they spent a load to get back up, how they have a great owner etc.
The reality is they were a big club in this league who couldn't get there, and a bit of a muddle off the pitch - they then appointed Chris Wilder and he has been utterly incredible in galvanising the whole club and totally turning it round.
Whilst I would like Evans to invest more, and invest more smartly off the pitch - the reality is a good manager covers up so many problems and finding one of those is the best thing he can do - Lambert isn't one.
For all Mick's faults, he got us within touching distance of the Premier League. That shows what a good manager can do, and is what we need to find |  |
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| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 09:24 - Mar 5 with 3581 views | Oxford_Blue |
| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 09:21 - Mar 5 by itfcjoe |
There seems a massive amount of revisionism, or lack of knowledge from town fans, who just look at the end result rather than how they got there with regards to Sheffield United.
I read lots about how we need to show ambition like Sheffield United, how they spent a load to get back up, how they have a great owner etc.
The reality is they were a big club in this league who couldn't get there, and a bit of a muddle off the pitch - they then appointed Chris Wilder and he has been utterly incredible in galvanising the whole club and totally turning it round.
Whilst I would like Evans to invest more, and invest more smartly off the pitch - the reality is a good manager covers up so many problems and finding one of those is the best thing he can do - Lambert isn't one.
For all Mick's faults, he got us within touching distance of the Premier League. That shows what a good manager can do, and is what we need to find |
Well said.
And burley did it with us. | | | |
| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 09:31 - Mar 5 with 3544 views | BrixtonBlue |
| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 09:24 - Mar 5 by Oxford_Blue |
Well said.
And burley did it with us. |
That's why we should bring in Burley as DOF IMO. | |
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| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 09:35 - Mar 5 with 3524 views | monytowbray |
My frustration right now is we still have fans who can't see how bad it really is or fans who think Evans has a define right to ruin the club because 87% or something.
He can sell if he wants to and cuts his losses. But we need to show him how unwelcome he is to force that card.
That, or we can go down to L2 and keep saying BUT HE PUTS IN FIVE MILL A YEAR. I think from now on every time someone says that I'm just gonna reply "if you love him so much why don't you suck him off". |  |
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| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 09:39 - Mar 5 with 3507 views | Oxford_Blue |
| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 09:31 - Mar 5 by BrixtonBlue |
That's why we should bring in Burley as DOF IMO. |
Maybe. Although ultimately it’s the players on the pitch that win or lose you games. Plenty of clubs with good DoF have not been successful. It also undermines the manager potentially which might deter others from coming here. | | | |
| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 09:42 - Mar 5 with 3496 views | Oxford_Blue |
| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 09:35 - Mar 5 by monytowbray |
My frustration right now is we still have fans who can't see how bad it really is or fans who think Evans has a define right to ruin the club because 87% or something.
He can sell if he wants to and cuts his losses. But we need to show him how unwelcome he is to force that card.
That, or we can go down to L2 and keep saying BUT HE PUTS IN FIVE MILL A YEAR. I think from now on every time someone says that I'm just gonna reply "if you love him so much why don't you suck him off". |
The point is that the club as it is structured makes significant losses so unless those losses are made up by player sales or reducing the wage budget then without Evans or someone else the club goes into administration. It’s clear that Evans puts money into the club and more than any one else ever has done, and it’s clear he wants the club to succeed. Unfortunately the managers he has appointed have all failed him, possibly apart from MM, including those whom he gave millions to spend. | | | |
| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 09:43 - Mar 5 with 3487 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 09:35 - Mar 5 by monytowbray |
My frustration right now is we still have fans who can't see how bad it really is or fans who think Evans has a define right to ruin the club because 87% or something.
He can sell if he wants to and cuts his losses. But we need to show him how unwelcome he is to force that card.
That, or we can go down to L2 and keep saying BUT HE PUTS IN FIVE MILL A YEAR. I think from now on every time someone says that I'm just gonna reply "if you love him so much why don't you suck him off". |
If we drop into League Two he won't have to put in £5m any more.
We will effectively end up breaking even due to the level of players we will have playing for us, so the interesting thing will be how these people then defend Evans.
'He's goes to all the games, well some of them, well I did see him in August against Barrow'. | |
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| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 09:44 - Mar 5 with 3481 views | itfcjoe |
| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 09:39 - Mar 5 by Oxford_Blue |
Maybe. Although ultimately it’s the players on the pitch that win or lose you games. Plenty of clubs with good DoF have not been successful. It also undermines the manager potentially which might deter others from coming here. |
It doesn't necessarily need to be a DoF, but just a structure off the field to help the manager
Cole Skuse is probably on £200k a year, when he goes in the summer you could appoint 4-5 smart football guys who have had success in recruitment and sports science at other clubs for the same outlay | |
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| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 09:45 - Mar 5 with 3470 views | monytowbray |
| 'Big clubs' first seasons in League 1: A Comparison on 09:42 - Mar 5 by Oxford_Blue |
The point is that the club as it is structured makes significant losses so unless those losses are made up by player sales or reducing the wage budget then without Evans or someone else the club goes into administration. It’s clear that Evans puts money into the club and more than any one else ever has done, and it’s clear he wants the club to succeed. Unfortunately the managers he has appointed have all failed him, possibly apart from MM, including those whom he gave millions to spend. |
You pressure him, as fans, to force a sale to a suitable candidate.
I don't know how many people on this forum find this matter so complex. Evans is still here through ignorance or a refusal to give up out of choice. He's not lumped with us. | |
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