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Things needed to change as the atmosphere had gone stale. However, I really don't understand how anyone could answer "no" and thinks things would be worse under MM...
Do you wish we still had Mick McCarthy as manager? on 11:31 - Mar 5 by tractordownsouth
Things needed to change as the atmosphere had gone stale. However, I really don't understand how anyone could answer "no" and thinks things would be worse under MM...
Do you wish we still had Mick McCarthy as manager? on 11:31 - Mar 5 by tractordownsouth
Things needed to change as the atmosphere had gone stale. However, I really don't understand how anyone could answer "no" and thinks things would be worse under MM...
When do you think people will stop talking about MM on here?
I can understand talk about old managers who achieved something, like Ramsey, Robson, Lyall, Burley, but to pine for an opinionated and stubborn bloke who thought a draw was a good result and provided us with the most boring performances in the history of the club, and also arguably prevented us from getting promoted.
Those most certainly were not the days!
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Do you wish we still had Mick McCarthy as manager? on 11:44 - Mar 5 with 2745 views
Do you wish we still had Mick McCarthy as manager? on 11:44 - Mar 5 by BrianTablet
No. Because wherever we're going, it's better than going nowhere.
That's not actually true though is it?
If we'd had a clearer understanding of what McCarthy was doing and how that was building a foundation of younger, more valuable players then we perhaps wouldn't have thrown that away on just getting a new manager, any manager.
"Going nowhere" could also be called stable especially now that our "going somewhere" looks suspiciously like freefall.
Edit: Just to say that I don't think Mick could stay on with the state of the relationship between him and some fans. But I think misjudging him and what he was achieving in spite of the financial constraints was still the start of that.
[Post edited 5 Mar 2020 11:51]
Pronouns: He/Him
1
Do you wish we still had Mick McCarthy as manager? on 11:50 - Mar 5 with 2698 views
Do you wish we still had Mick McCarthy as manager? on 11:49 - Mar 5 by Darth_Koont
That's not actually true though is it?
If we'd had a clearer understanding of what McCarthy was doing and how that was building a foundation of younger, more valuable players then we perhaps wouldn't have thrown that away on just getting a new manager, any manager.
"Going nowhere" could also be called stable especially now that our "going somewhere" looks suspiciously like freefall.
Edit: Just to say that I don't think Mick could stay on with the state of the relationship between him and some fans. But I think misjudging him and what he was achieving in spite of the financial constraints was still the start of that.
[Post edited 5 Mar 2020 11:51]
McCarthys style of football made a succession plan almost impossible.
Do you wish we still had Mick McCarthy as manager? on 11:50 - Mar 5 by Marshalls_Mullet
McCarthys style of football made a succession plan almost impossible.
The style that saved us from relegation in 2012/13 and had us challenging at the top within two seasons? Bringing fans back in the process?
It couldn't be repeated after that when the funding was cut back and before the academy focus could deliver but it would have been more accurate to judge him and his football by applying the right context.
Pronouns: He/Him
0
Do you wish we still had Mick McCarthy as manager? on 12:02 - Mar 5 with 2624 views
Do you wish we still had Mick McCarthy as manager? on 11:49 - Mar 5 by Darth_Koont
That's not actually true though is it?
If we'd had a clearer understanding of what McCarthy was doing and how that was building a foundation of younger, more valuable players then we perhaps wouldn't have thrown that away on just getting a new manager, any manager.
"Going nowhere" could also be called stable especially now that our "going somewhere" looks suspiciously like freefall.
Edit: Just to say that I don't think Mick could stay on with the state of the relationship between him and some fans. But I think misjudging him and what he was achieving in spite of the financial constraints was still the start of that.
[Post edited 5 Mar 2020 11:51]
We weren't going anywhere because all we were doing was getting in loanees and journeymen to prop up our club. He was negative in all respects.
McCarthy had no system of playing that could result in success. By this I mean Ipswich success, namely - passing football, attacking football and a generally 'more wins than losses' end product. We'd have all taken that. We know we're unlikely to do a Leicester, but at least we could have had some kind of excitement/attraction while we were trying. What we all love about this club is that we (used to) do the right things on and off the field. We played in the right way.
Evans and his managers have killed that.
When Evans did spend some money - Waghorn, Garner, etc then they were standalone players in a non-system. I'm not saying any other manager has done better, and I think it starts at the top. We have no knowledge of a youth -centred system that can follow a pattern throughout the club, supplemented by a few buys that will IMPROVE what we have, not just random punts on 'wingers' or 'strikers'.
Evans needs to either leave or restart the whole thing with football people following a coherent plan.
"......Paul Mariner......John Wark...... Brian Tablet...errrrrrr Talbot"
Do you wish we still had Mick McCarthy as manager? on 11:55 - Mar 5 by Darth_Koont
The style that saved us from relegation in 2012/13 and had us challenging at the top within two seasons? Bringing fans back in the process?
It couldn't be repeated after that when the funding was cut back and before the academy focus could deliver but it would have been more accurate to judge him and his football by applying the right context.
I'm talking about 2018, not 2013.
Its a shame it deteriorated so badly and became toxic.
Do you wish we still had Mick McCarthy as manager? on 12:02 - Mar 5 by BrianTablet
We weren't going anywhere because all we were doing was getting in loanees and journeymen to prop up our club. He was negative in all respects.
McCarthy had no system of playing that could result in success. By this I mean Ipswich success, namely - passing football, attacking football and a generally 'more wins than losses' end product. We'd have all taken that. We know we're unlikely to do a Leicester, but at least we could have had some kind of excitement/attraction while we were trying. What we all love about this club is that we (used to) do the right things on and off the field. We played in the right way.
Evans and his managers have killed that.
When Evans did spend some money - Waghorn, Garner, etc then they were standalone players in a non-system. I'm not saying any other manager has done better, and I think it starts at the top. We have no knowledge of a youth -centred system that can follow a pattern throughout the club, supplemented by a few buys that will IMPROVE what we have, not just random punts on 'wingers' or 'strikers'.
Evans needs to either leave or restart the whole thing with football people following a coherent plan.
I think you're wrong about that. Even in the last season we had our own young players finally coming through, and we'd been following a process of signing younger players to develop like Webster and finding undervalued players we could use like Waghorn.
"Loanees and journeymen" were filling gaps, nothing more.
I'll agree that the football was sometimes very poor but when it was good it was pretty good. And certainly no worse than anything that came before or after.
I can understand the frustration and lack of patience after so many years in the Championship with us going the long and cheap way about building a team. But the big mistake was that we then brought in a manager who dismantled the whole foundation and wasted the opportunity totally.
[Post edited 5 Mar 2020 12:18]
Pronouns: He/Him
1
Do you wish we still had Mick McCarthy as manager? on 12:27 - Mar 5 with 2497 views
Do you wish we still had Mick McCarthy as manager? on 12:02 - Mar 5 by BrianTablet
We weren't going anywhere because all we were doing was getting in loanees and journeymen to prop up our club. He was negative in all respects.
McCarthy had no system of playing that could result in success. By this I mean Ipswich success, namely - passing football, attacking football and a generally 'more wins than losses' end product. We'd have all taken that. We know we're unlikely to do a Leicester, but at least we could have had some kind of excitement/attraction while we were trying. What we all love about this club is that we (used to) do the right things on and off the field. We played in the right way.
Evans and his managers have killed that.
When Evans did spend some money - Waghorn, Garner, etc then they were standalone players in a non-system. I'm not saying any other manager has done better, and I think it starts at the top. We have no knowledge of a youth -centred system that can follow a pattern throughout the club, supplemented by a few buys that will IMPROVE what we have, not just random punts on 'wingers' or 'strikers'.
Evans needs to either leave or restart the whole thing with football people following a coherent plan.
Wasn't he supposed to be an excellent organiser of defences? Anyone got time to post up our defensive record whilst he was our manager? (sorry, I haven't! )
Do you wish we still had Mick McCarthy as manager? on 12:14 - Mar 5 by Darth_Koont
I think you're wrong about that. Even in the last season we had our own young players finally coming through, and we'd been following a process of signing younger players to develop like Webster and finding undervalued players we could use like Waghorn.
"Loanees and journeymen" were filling gaps, nothing more.
I'll agree that the football was sometimes very poor but when it was good it was pretty good. And certainly no worse than anything that came before or after.
I can understand the frustration and lack of patience after so many years in the Championship with us going the long and cheap way about building a team. But the big mistake was that we then brought in a manager who dismantled the whole foundation and wasted the opportunity totally.
[Post edited 5 Mar 2020 12:18]
I am fine with the dismantling, it just seems it was done by the wrong person. It seems Hurst was out of his depth, and if he'd kept Waghorn, Garner who knows?
I think Hurst was unlucky, but was coming at it from the wrong perspective. He needed to hit the ground running and that just didn't happen. Who knows what Evans's criteria was regarding Hurst's appointment. Probably wanted someone happy to be radical on a budget - although Hurst then spent all his budget (badly) on quite a few players that we thought probably thought would make it (Edwards, Jackson, etc)
The fact that players don't seem to do well here is more worrying. There must be an underlying culture that is unsuitable to footballing success.
"......Paul Mariner......John Wark...... Brian Tablet...errrrrrr Talbot"
MM is in our past, leave him there, he joins the list of managers that have achieved nothing for us, his footballing philosophy of setting up not to lose although worked to a degree was dire to watch and ripped the sh1t out of what this clubs philosophy of how the beautiful game should be played!
And for a manager of his experience not to want to do anything to restore pride in the whole set up by ignoring just how bad the state of the training ground appearance wise and football in the community etc etc....All the little things PL has picked up on to get the heart of the club going again is unforgivable!
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Do you wish we still had Mick McCarthy as manager? on 12:43 - Mar 5 with 2412 views
Do you wish we still had Mick McCarthy as manager? on 12:37 - Mar 5 by BrianTablet
I am fine with the dismantling, it just seems it was done by the wrong person. It seems Hurst was out of his depth, and if he'd kept Waghorn, Garner who knows?
I think Hurst was unlucky, but was coming at it from the wrong perspective. He needed to hit the ground running and that just didn't happen. Who knows what Evans's criteria was regarding Hurst's appointment. Probably wanted someone happy to be radical on a budget - although Hurst then spent all his budget (badly) on quite a few players that we thought probably thought would make it (Edwards, Jackson, etc)
The fact that players don't seem to do well here is more worrying. There must be an underlying culture that is unsuitable to footballing success.
I wasn't fine about the dismantling. It put a block on our own youngsters development and we wasted precious funds on players that were no better. Even the idea that these players were better, stronger athletes and could help us play a higher tempo, pressing game was quickly shown to be false.
And we immediately went to an unsustainable squad size that Lambert arguably made even worse when he came in and tried to keep us up.
Everything that was arguably good about Mick's squad (and went a little way towards justifying the sacrifices made) was abandoned overnight for something a lot worse. How or why that was allowed to happen is IMO the root cause of where we are now.
Pronouns: He/Him
1
Do you wish we still had Mick McCarthy as manager? on 13:02 - Mar 5 with 2357 views
Do you wish we still had Mick McCarthy as manager? on 12:43 - Mar 5 by Darth_Koont
I wasn't fine about the dismantling. It put a block on our own youngsters development and we wasted precious funds on players that were no better. Even the idea that these players were better, stronger athletes and could help us play a higher tempo, pressing game was quickly shown to be false.
And we immediately went to an unsustainable squad size that Lambert arguably made even worse when he came in and tried to keep us up.
Everything that was arguably good about Mick's squad (and went a little way towards justifying the sacrifices made) was abandoned overnight for something a lot worse. How or why that was allowed to happen is IMO the root cause of where we are now.
I thought we were buying better players. I'll admit it, I was wrong. I guess that's what you trust the manager/scout for. They were wrong too.
The squad size was huge and unwieldy and poor quality, yes.
For years we haven't had the high-quality spine running through our team that you need for success. Although we had Bart (who was bl**dy amazing in his prime), we've never had a good settled central defence (Chambers has never cut it, Smith improved but was a 7/10 player at best. Skuse - possibly - with the right person alongside him, but really too slow and afraid to take risks (McCarthy's fault?) Striker - Murphy + McG (but he was always injured) so usually Murphy alone.
Then we've never had a right back, bought wingers and then isolated them. Our left backs came and went til Jonas who was a Smithesque 7/10.
We ended up a mess of busy little players running in circles while Chambers Bambied-on-ice til he/the keeper hoofed it to the opposition centre back.
"......Paul Mariner......John Wark...... Brian Tablet...errrrrrr Talbot"
Do you wish we still had Mick McCarthy as manager? on 11:48 - Mar 5 by Sikamikanico
Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
Him leaving was right. It is the actions afterwards that have brought us here. Different actions would not have done so,.
The idea that Mick leaving is directly responsible for our demise is an informal fallacy
For those at work who aren't able to search -
"Latin: 'after this, therefore because of this' is an informal fallacy that states: "Since event Y followed event X, event Y must have been caused by event X." It is often shortened simply to post hoc fallacy."
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