| Oborne nails it again 13:19 - Mar 7 with 7730 views | Darth_Koont |
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/british-tories-are-morphing-party-bigots
And so does O’Brien who might be starting to feel a little duped ...
The lack of mainstream coverage or comment on this and other stuff like the ruling against the JC for making up allegations of bullying against Louise Ellman (who also did nothing to correct this as far as I can see) suggest we have a media that is entirely compromised as a seeker of truth and balance. They are an intrinsic part of the problem in UK politics. [Post edited 7 Mar 2020 13:22]
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| Oborne nails it again on 13:22 - Mar 7 with 2972 views | monytowbray |
That’s because no one really cared about racism, it was just convenient to highlight Labour problems. Plus Islamophobia is much less challenged and prominent.
BUT DON’T YOU DARE CALL IT FASCISM, or something. |  |
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| Oborne nails it again on 13:25 - Mar 7 with 2957 views | Steve_M |
Racism in the Tory Party doesn’t excuse racism in the Labour Party. Partisans only being concerned about one of them doesn’t change that. |  |
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| Oborne nails it again on 13:29 - Mar 7 with 2950 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oborne nails it again on 13:25 - Mar 7 by Steve_M |
Racism in the Tory Party doesn’t excuse racism in the Labour Party. Partisans only being concerned about one of them doesn’t change that. |
Nice straw man there Steve.
Looking at only one side of the story and ignoring evidence is the biggest problem. So forgive me if I take your righteousness with a pinch of salt. | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 13:31 - Mar 7 with 2931 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oborne nails it again on 13:22 - Mar 7 by monytowbray |
That’s because no one really cared about racism, it was just convenient to highlight Labour problems. Plus Islamophobia is much less challenged and prominent.
BUT DON’T YOU DARE CALL IT FASCISM, or something. |
Indeed. Labour antisemitism was a political battle even down to the definition of antisemitism.
There’s no political battle over Islamophobia. And it’s all over the mainstream anyway. So evidently no reason to cover it or care. | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 13:33 - Mar 7 with 2910 views | monytowbray |
| Oborne nails it again on 13:25 - Mar 7 by Steve_M |
Racism in the Tory Party doesn’t excuse racism in the Labour Party. Partisans only being concerned about one of them doesn’t change that. |
Labour had a few anti-semites. The Tories are actively ripping apart any type of non-white British communities they can and more with their policies.
It’s a bit like comparing a father spanking his child to Ian Huntley. | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 13:38 - Mar 7 with 2891 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oborne nails it again on 13:33 - Mar 7 by monytowbray |
Labour had a few anti-semites. The Tories are actively ripping apart any type of non-white British communities they can and more with their policies.
It’s a bit like comparing a father spanking his child to Ian Huntley. |
More than a few. But no-one has ever denied that there are antisemites in the Labour Party just like there are antisemites across society.
It might seem churlish to point out that there are more antisemites on the right but again it highlights the problems with power that the right is more pro-Israel so isn’t called out by the hardcore pro-Israel activists and lobbyists who have been most concerned with antisemitism. Especially concerned since 2015. | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 13:39 - Mar 7 with 2885 views | jontysnut |
I think me and Oborne would still disagree about a lot but he has been one of the best commentators on this and, dare I mention it Brexit. If you like cricket, or even if you don't, his book about Basil D'Oliveira is very good. |  | | |
| Oborne nails it again on 13:44 - Mar 7 with 2859 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oborne nails it again on 13:39 - Mar 7 by jontysnut |
I think me and Oborne would still disagree about a lot but he has been one of the best commentators on this and, dare I mention it Brexit. If you like cricket, or even if you don't, his book about Basil D'Oliveira is very good. |
Agreed.
He certainly seems to understand the underlying journalism problem shown here and elsewhere, and is prepared to call it out.
I’ll even forgive his obsession with cricket for that.  Of course, I’m guessing that the D’Oliveira book isn’t just about cricket. | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 14:12 - Mar 7 with 2799 views | Lord_Lucan |
To be honest I'm a bit sick of all this sh1t.
If you want to experience racism in a country then try living pretty much anywhere except The United Kingdom. |  |
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| Oborne nails it again on 14:15 - Mar 7 with 2790 views | manchego |
| Oborne nails it again on 14:12 - Mar 7 by Lord_Lucan |
To be honest I'm a bit sick of all this sh1t.
If you want to experience racism in a country then try living pretty much anywhere except The United Kingdom. |
"It's worse there" is pretty much the worst reason for excusing racism. |  | | |
| Oborne nails it again on 14:19 - Mar 7 with 2765 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Oborne nails it again on 14:15 - Mar 7 by manchego |
"It's worse there" is pretty much the worst reason for excusing racism. |
Mate, I'd rather talk to a fücking brick wall. | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 14:32 - Mar 7 with 2724 views | GlasgowBlue |
If you only attack Tory racism but defend/excuse/minimise racism in the Labour Party then you don’t really care about racism. You care about playing oarty politics. |  |
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| Oborne nails it again on 14:34 - Mar 7 with 2716 views | Wacko |
| Oborne nails it again on 13:38 - Mar 7 by Darth_Koont |
More than a few. But no-one has ever denied that there are antisemites in the Labour Party just like there are antisemites across society.
It might seem churlish to point out that there are more antisemites on the right but again it highlights the problems with power that the right is more pro-Israel so isn’t called out by the hardcore pro-Israel activists and lobbyists who have been most concerned with antisemitism. Especially concerned since 2015. |
There was an official report that said that there were no more antisemites in the Labour party than the Conservative party. Sounds like there's a hell of a lot fewer islamophobes |  |
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| Oborne nails it again on 14:34 - Mar 7 with 2711 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oborne nails it again on 14:32 - Mar 7 by GlasgowBlue |
If you only attack Tory racism but defend/excuse/minimise racism in the Labour Party then you don’t really care about racism. You care about playing oarty politics. |
No, I actually care about the truth and fighting racism.
Keep dodging and pretending you've not got the stench of this all over you. | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 14:37 - Mar 7 with 2694 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Oborne nails it again on 13:33 - Mar 7 by monytowbray |
Labour had a few anti-semites. The Tories are actively ripping apart any type of non-white British communities they can and more with their policies.
It’s a bit like comparing a father spanking his child to Ian Huntley. |
A few antisemites? You really do blow with the wind don’t you.
Putting some of my voting confliction out there, potentially open to scrutiny. by monytowbray 6 Dec 2019 17:46That JLM document is fairly damning if true and I think it’s in the best interests of Labour voters to ensure there is a proper investigation and those people responsible are removed.
However the other part of me is struggling to understand how a man who has protested endlessly his entire life against discrimination is somehow leading a charge of mass anti-Semitism and why anyone would release such a document a week before an election when it will pretty much give the Tories the dictatorship they want for 5 years.
There also seems to be people who have no issues with Johnson and his previous comments who want to push this. You don’t get to pick and choose when discrimination is bad or when it’s fine.
I feel as someone who identifies as an anti-fascist we should speak about the allegations and not ignore it. It’s challenging when there is so much more on the table with current Labour party rifts to say there aren’t other potential factors in play. Corbyn has had every smear imaginable thrown at him in the last few years, many of which turned out to be untrue.
There has been a push from the centre to say the left wing has an anti-Semitism issue in general, yet if this were true I would have expected to have heard at least a little bit myself from my immediate and wider social circles, and I’ve heard none ever. Blurring the line between anti-Semitism and bring critical of the Israeli government is not the same I should add, as this is something I have seen done.
I’ve always felt the one most redeeming feature left wing politics has is when we find out someone or something is not as claimed we admit fault, abandon it for something better aligned or push back.
I’m a firm believer in taking victim claims and discriminatory allegations seriously so you can see why I’m conflicted here. There is literal written and video evidence of the likes of Trump, Farage and Johnson saying considerably toxic things yet people are fine to ignore it, yet I feel concerned just posting this as I’ve already had a few people on Twitter claim having any opinion other than the the most straight forward black and white one makes me a part of the problem.
I’m just trying to have a reasonable discussion, honestly. It’s all a bit confusing.
I look forward to you revisiting that statement when the EHRC publishes very shortly. | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 14:38 - Mar 7 with 2682 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Oborne nails it again on 14:34 - Mar 7 by Darth_Koont |
No, I actually care about the truth and fighting racism.
Keep dodging and pretending you've not got the stench of this all over you. |
Oborne nails it again by GlasgowBlue 7 Mar 2020 14:32If you only attack Tory racism but defend/excuse/minimise racism in the Labour Party then you don’t really care about racism. You care about playing oarty politics.
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| Oborne nails it again on 14:42 - Mar 7 with 2675 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oborne nails it again on 14:37 - Mar 7 by GlasgowBlue |
A few antisemites? You really do blow with the wind don’t you.
Putting some of my voting confliction out there, potentially open to scrutiny. by monytowbray 6 Dec 2019 17:46That JLM document is fairly damning if true and I think it’s in the best interests of Labour voters to ensure there is a proper investigation and those people responsible are removed.
However the other part of me is struggling to understand how a man who has protested endlessly his entire life against discrimination is somehow leading a charge of mass anti-Semitism and why anyone would release such a document a week before an election when it will pretty much give the Tories the dictatorship they want for 5 years.
There also seems to be people who have no issues with Johnson and his previous comments who want to push this. You don’t get to pick and choose when discrimination is bad or when it’s fine.
I feel as someone who identifies as an anti-fascist we should speak about the allegations and not ignore it. It’s challenging when there is so much more on the table with current Labour party rifts to say there aren’t other potential factors in play. Corbyn has had every smear imaginable thrown at him in the last few years, many of which turned out to be untrue.
There has been a push from the centre to say the left wing has an anti-Semitism issue in general, yet if this were true I would have expected to have heard at least a little bit myself from my immediate and wider social circles, and I’ve heard none ever. Blurring the line between anti-Semitism and bring critical of the Israeli government is not the same I should add, as this is something I have seen done.
I’ve always felt the one most redeeming feature left wing politics has is when we find out someone or something is not as claimed we admit fault, abandon it for something better aligned or push back.
I’m a firm believer in taking victim claims and discriminatory allegations seriously so you can see why I’m conflicted here. There is literal written and video evidence of the likes of Trump, Farage and Johnson saying considerably toxic things yet people are fine to ignore it, yet I feel concerned just posting this as I’ve already had a few people on Twitter claim having any opinion other than the the most straight forward black and white one makes me a part of the problem.
I’m just trying to have a reasonable discussion, honestly. It’s all a bit confusing.
I look forward to you revisiting that statement when the EHRC publishes very shortly. |
I look forward to you addressing the OP or any of the other evidence that shows how much of this has been weaponised, exaggerated or made up for political effect.
It's all stuff you've not just uncritically repeated but embellished at length. | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 14:50 - Mar 7 with 2638 views | Wacko |
| Oborne nails it again on 14:37 - Mar 7 by GlasgowBlue |
A few antisemites? You really do blow with the wind don’t you.
Putting some of my voting confliction out there, potentially open to scrutiny. by monytowbray 6 Dec 2019 17:46That JLM document is fairly damning if true and I think it’s in the best interests of Labour voters to ensure there is a proper investigation and those people responsible are removed.
However the other part of me is struggling to understand how a man who has protested endlessly his entire life against discrimination is somehow leading a charge of mass anti-Semitism and why anyone would release such a document a week before an election when it will pretty much give the Tories the dictatorship they want for 5 years.
There also seems to be people who have no issues with Johnson and his previous comments who want to push this. You don’t get to pick and choose when discrimination is bad or when it’s fine.
I feel as someone who identifies as an anti-fascist we should speak about the allegations and not ignore it. It’s challenging when there is so much more on the table with current Labour party rifts to say there aren’t other potential factors in play. Corbyn has had every smear imaginable thrown at him in the last few years, many of which turned out to be untrue.
There has been a push from the centre to say the left wing has an anti-Semitism issue in general, yet if this were true I would have expected to have heard at least a little bit myself from my immediate and wider social circles, and I’ve heard none ever. Blurring the line between anti-Semitism and bring critical of the Israeli government is not the same I should add, as this is something I have seen done.
I’ve always felt the one most redeeming feature left wing politics has is when we find out someone or something is not as claimed we admit fault, abandon it for something better aligned or push back.
I’m a firm believer in taking victim claims and discriminatory allegations seriously so you can see why I’m conflicted here. There is literal written and video evidence of the likes of Trump, Farage and Johnson saying considerably toxic things yet people are fine to ignore it, yet I feel concerned just posting this as I’ve already had a few people on Twitter claim having any opinion other than the the most straight forward black and white one makes me a part of the problem.
I’m just trying to have a reasonable discussion, honestly. It’s all a bit confusing.
I look forward to you revisiting that statement when the EHRC publishes very shortly. |
The OP is about the unbalanced way the media report racism in political parties.
The official report into antisemitism in the Labour party found no more cases there than in the Conservative party nor in wider society. I've written this point so many times and you've ignored it, if you cared about racism you would have posted and highlighted an equal amount of antisemitic cases from the Conservative party as from the Labour party, but you haven't. This implies you are just as guilty of using antisemitism to weaponise the fight against Corbyn as the mainstream media is. | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 15:04 - Mar 7 with 2609 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Oborne nails it again on 14:50 - Mar 7 by Wacko |
The OP is about the unbalanced way the media report racism in political parties.
The official report into antisemitism in the Labour party found no more cases there than in the Conservative party nor in wider society. I've written this point so many times and you've ignored it, if you cared about racism you would have posted and highlighted an equal amount of antisemitic cases from the Conservative party as from the Labour party, but you haven't. This implies you are just as guilty of using antisemitism to weaponise the fight against Corbyn as the mainstream media is. |
Actually the report found that Labour Party voters were less likely to hold antisemitic views than members of the Conservative party but that officials in the Labour Party were 8 x more likely to hold antisemitic views than officials in any other mainstream U.K. political party.
But you knew that already.
Now the match has started so oh can defend antisemitism with DK with no input from me. | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 15:09 - Mar 7 with 2602 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oborne nails it again on 15:04 - Mar 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Actually the report found that Labour Party voters were less likely to hold antisemitic views than members of the Conservative party but that officials in the Labour Party were 8 x more likely to hold antisemitic views than officials in any other mainstream U.K. political party.
But you knew that already.
Now the match has started so oh can defend antisemitism with DK with no input from me. |
The report doesn't actually say that. As you know.
Anyway COYB and maybe you can come back and address the points properly later. | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 15:43 - Mar 7 with 2536 views | Wacko |
| Oborne nails it again on 15:04 - Mar 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Actually the report found that Labour Party voters were less likely to hold antisemitic views than members of the Conservative party but that officials in the Labour Party were 8 x more likely to hold antisemitic views than officials in any other mainstream U.K. political party.
But you knew that already.
Now the match has started so oh can defend antisemitism with DK with no input from me. |
As usual you're living in a fantasy world.
Here is an actual quote from the report, which I have quoted many times on here, but as you are incapable of responding to real facts, you ignore it:
"Despite significant press and public attention on the Labour Party, and a number of
revelations regarding inappropriate social media content, there exists no reliable, empirical
evidence to support the notion that there is a higher prevalence of antisemitic attitudes
within the Labour Party than any other political party"
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201617/cmselect/cmhaff/136/136.pdf
Page 46, point 120
I'm not defending antisemitism and have never defended antisemitism. I defend fairness and facts and intellectual reason - qualities you so clearly lack to the point that I'm regularly surprised how often you publicly display such deficiencies by posting on here. But I suppose the government here and in the US has galvanized people like you with such malformed views.
Enjoy the game. Maybe during it, you can come up with some anti-semitic cases from the Tory party to balance out your flagrant bias. | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 15:46 - Mar 7 with 2529 views | NewcyBlue |
Punch a racist. No matter where they are on the political spectrum. |  |
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| Oborne nails it again on 16:04 - Mar 7 with 2494 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Oborne nails it again on 15:43 - Mar 7 by Wacko |
As usual you're living in a fantasy world.
Here is an actual quote from the report, which I have quoted many times on here, but as you are incapable of responding to real facts, you ignore it:
"Despite significant press and public attention on the Labour Party, and a number of
revelations regarding inappropriate social media content, there exists no reliable, empirical
evidence to support the notion that there is a higher prevalence of antisemitic attitudes
within the Labour Party than any other political party"
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201617/cmselect/cmhaff/136/136.pdf
Page 46, point 120
I'm not defending antisemitism and have never defended antisemitism. I defend fairness and facts and intellectual reason - qualities you so clearly lack to the point that I'm regularly surprised how often you publicly display such deficiencies by posting on here. But I suppose the government here and in the US has galvanized people like you with such malformed views.
Enjoy the game. Maybe during it, you can come up with some anti-semitic cases from the Tory party to balance out your flagrant bias. |
https://antisemitism.uk/new-caa-research-shows-antisemitism-amongst-officials-in
edit- This really shouldn't be so complicated. Labour has a massive antisemitism issue and are under investigation by the EHRC for institutional anti Jewish racism.
The Tories have a massive issue with Islamophobia and have a leader who has made several racist and Islamophobic comments both in person and in print.
Both should be condemned. Neither should be defended or used as a topic for yeah but what about the other side. They are both bad.
[Post edited 7 Mar 2020 16:20]
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| Oborne nails it again on 16:16 - Mar 7 with 2467 views | tractordownsouth |
| Oborne nails it again on 13:33 - Mar 7 by monytowbray |
Labour had a few anti-semites. The Tories are actively ripping apart any type of non-white British communities they can and more with their policies.
It’s a bit like comparing a father spanking his child to Ian Huntley. |
I think at these point both parties are as bad as each other. Sure, the Labour stuff gets more media coverage but the problems we have are just as bad as the Tory problems. |  |
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