| Lambert's new contract 09:45 - Mar 9 with 1505 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
I appreciate these things take time to agree, discuss, negotiate and so on, but the fact Evans went ahead with this tells you everything you need to know about his lack of understanding of football - 12 years into owning a football club.
it was announced on 1 January 2020.
This was TWO days after we had lost 5-3 at Lincoln City, conceding five goals away for the first time in how long?
This was off the back of a dismal 0-0 draw at home to Gillingham
That came after a 1-0 defeat away at Portsmouth, which came after a 2-1 defeat at home to Coventry knocking us out of the FA Cup, coming after a 2-1 home defeat to Bristol Rovers.
They came after 5 successive draws with Coventry (twice), Peterborough , Blackpool and Wycombe.
As mental as a 5 year deal was for a manager in League One, this was agreed on the back of 4 defeats in 5 and 10 matches without a win!
Form that would have any other manager sacked at a club expecting to be in the promotion mix. Hell, some managers have been sacked for that when at clubs expecting to be in mid table or even at the bottom.
Absolutely astounding.
[Post edited 9 Mar 2020 9:47]
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| Lambert's new contract on 09:50 - Mar 9 with 1468 views | Herbivore |
Evans painted himself into a corner. The contract was more or less all agreed when we were top it seems (though I'd argue it wasn't necessary even in that context). If you look at Lambert's comments after the Gillingham game in light of what we now know it seems he was basically telling Evans to sh!t or get off the pot. In effect it became a choice between getting the contract signed or getting rid of Lambert. I don't see how his position would have been tenable if a newly agreed contract was suddenly taken away from him and it would have made their working relationship impossible. Evans obviously wasn't ready to pull the trigger and so here we are. That said, the contract is meaningless really as we can and will get rid if we want to, it's more that it looks bloody stupid. |  |
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| Lambert's new contract on 09:51 - Mar 9 with 1464 views | WD19 |
So what you are saying is that the form dropped off about the time that the contract started to be discussed/negotiated.......
.....and remained poor throughout the negotiation period.....
.....so what ME should have done is withdrawn the contract offer entirely and perpetuate that period of insecurity and distraction......
.....and that would definitely, never, not ever be interpreted by some fans as undermining a popular manager who was top of the league.
P.S. I thought the contract was nuts too. But hindsight is a wonderful thing. |  | | |
| Lambert's new contract on 09:53 - Mar 9 with 1444 views | Guthrum |
| Lambert's new contract on 09:50 - Mar 9 by Herbivore |
Evans painted himself into a corner. The contract was more or less all agreed when we were top it seems (though I'd argue it wasn't necessary even in that context). If you look at Lambert's comments after the Gillingham game in light of what we now know it seems he was basically telling Evans to sh!t or get off the pot. In effect it became a choice between getting the contract signed or getting rid of Lambert. I don't see how his position would have been tenable if a newly agreed contract was suddenly taken away from him and it would have made their working relationship impossible. Evans obviously wasn't ready to pull the trigger and so here we are. That said, the contract is meaningless really as we can and will get rid if we want to, it's more that it looks bloody stupid. |
Indeed.
Altho I have never seen why it was necessary to go as long as five years. We're not in the early 1970s any more (a la Robson and Cobbold). Virtually no manager is ever given a contract that long any more. |  |
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| Lambert's new contract on 09:56 - Mar 9 with 1422 views | Herbivore |
| Lambert's new contract on 09:53 - Mar 9 by Guthrum |
Indeed.
Altho I have never seen why it was necessary to go as long as five years. We're not in the early 1970s any more (a la Robson and Cobbold). Virtually no manager is ever given a contract that long any more. |
The length is odd. I think Lambert knows this is his last job in football so would have pushed for it and he obviously managed to convince Evans it was a long term project. The break clauses render the length less important but when the contract was announced it was a genuine WTF?! moment. | |
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| Lambert's new contract on 09:57 - Mar 9 with 1417 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| Lambert's new contract on 09:50 - Mar 9 by Herbivore |
Evans painted himself into a corner. The contract was more or less all agreed when we were top it seems (though I'd argue it wasn't necessary even in that context). If you look at Lambert's comments after the Gillingham game in light of what we now know it seems he was basically telling Evans to sh!t or get off the pot. In effect it became a choice between getting the contract signed or getting rid of Lambert. I don't see how his position would have been tenable if a newly agreed contract was suddenly taken away from him and it would have made their working relationship impossible. Evans obviously wasn't ready to pull the trigger and so here we are. That said, the contract is meaningless really as we can and will get rid if we want to, it's more that it looks bloody stupid. |
Which is telling of Evans.
What sort of owner cannot say 'look, you've done an excellent job getting us top, but since then we have gone 7, 8, 9 and now 10 games without a win in a division where we should be winning half, if not more of our games'.
'It would be foolish for me to finalise this contract until the form has been turned around. This contract is lucrative and intended for a man skilled enough to turn round this sort of poor run of form, arguably to have never suffered it'.
'So it's ready and waiting once we are back to where we ought to be'.
How can a manager, without a win in 10 in a division they should be comfortable in, dictate terms or hold you to ransom?
Evans should have allowed him to walk if needs be.
The new contract was proposed on the basis we were doing really well. As soon as that changed, and continued over several months, Lambert has to accept the position is changed and roll with it.
I can't rock up at my ex's house asking to climb into bed with her because the offer was there when we were happy! Things change and if Lambert couldn't accept that then Evans should have got rid anyway. | |
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| Lambert's new contract on 09:58 - Mar 9 with 1423 views | PhilTWTD |
| Lambert's new contract on 09:53 - Mar 9 by Guthrum |
Indeed.
Altho I have never seen why it was necessary to go as long as five years. We're not in the early 1970s any more (a la Robson and Cobbold). Virtually no manager is ever given a contract that long any more. |
I think the thinking was that a long-term contract would establish some stability for their plans going forward. A laudable ambition but one which requires results in the short term to be carried through. |  | | |
| Lambert's new contract on 09:59 - Mar 9 with 1400 views | BlueBadger |
| Lambert's new contract on 09:58 - Mar 9 by PhilTWTD |
I think the thinking was that a long-term contract would establish some stability for their plans going forward. A laudable ambition but one which requires results in the short term to be carried through. |
In all fairness, we HAVE achieved a strong level of consistency of results since it was signed... |  |
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| Lambert's new contract on 10:00 - Mar 9 with 1384 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| Lambert's new contract on 09:58 - Mar 9 by PhilTWTD |
I think the thinking was that a long-term contract would establish some stability for their plans going forward. A laudable ambition but one which requires results in the short term to be carried through. |
The thing is though, would a 2 year contract with an option of a third year not provide stability? It's a big commitment in the third tier.
Also, we can give him a 10 year contract and still sack him, so this also doesn't show any real commitment to Lambert long term.
The only way Lambert feels secure is if Evans admits he's got a contract he can't afford to sack him on, which then allows Lambert to know he doesn't have to perform to stay in work.
All completely ridiculous. | |
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| Lambert's new contract on 10:02 - Mar 9 with 1374 views | Guthrum |
| Lambert's new contract on 09:58 - Mar 9 by PhilTWTD |
I think the thinking was that a long-term contract would establish some stability for their plans going forward. A laudable ambition but one which requires results in the short term to be carried through. |
I see that, but it could have been structured as a 3-year deal with options to extend. Limiting the liability if it all went wrong in the short term.
Would still have been attractive to the manager, as success followed by renegotiation might lead to improved terms later on. | |
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| Lambert's new contract on 10:02 - Mar 9 with 1370 views | Herbivore |
| Lambert's new contract on 09:57 - Mar 9 by WarkTheWarkITFC |
Which is telling of Evans.
What sort of owner cannot say 'look, you've done an excellent job getting us top, but since then we have gone 7, 8, 9 and now 10 games without a win in a division where we should be winning half, if not more of our games'.
'It would be foolish for me to finalise this contract until the form has been turned around. This contract is lucrative and intended for a man skilled enough to turn round this sort of poor run of form, arguably to have never suffered it'.
'So it's ready and waiting once we are back to where we ought to be'.
How can a manager, without a win in 10 in a division they should be comfortable in, dictate terms or hold you to ransom?
Evans should have allowed him to walk if needs be.
The new contract was proposed on the basis we were doing really well. As soon as that changed, and continued over several months, Lambert has to accept the position is changed and roll with it.
I can't rock up at my ex's house asking to climb into bed with her because the offer was there when we were happy! Things change and if Lambert couldn't accept that then Evans should have got rid anyway. |
By that point the bad spell had been about 6 weeks rather than several months and we were still in a strong position to finish in the top 6 at the very least. Our run since then has been abysmal, esepcially the last 9 games.
It's easy to say "why didn't he just withdraw the offer?" but as I say, that is essentially giving the manager a vote of no confidence. Lambert is 'old school' and I'm not sure he could continue to work with someone who's gone back on a contract offer. In effect, it would have been constructive dismissal. Now I agree that we ought to have just let him go, I was already in the out camp at that point. However, plenty weren't and Evans clearly wasn't either. | |
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| Lambert's new contract on 10:10 - Mar 9 with 1334 views | Guthrum |
| Lambert's new contract on 10:02 - Mar 9 by Herbivore |
By that point the bad spell had been about 6 weeks rather than several months and we were still in a strong position to finish in the top 6 at the very least. Our run since then has been abysmal, esepcially the last 9 games.
It's easy to say "why didn't he just withdraw the offer?" but as I say, that is essentially giving the manager a vote of no confidence. Lambert is 'old school' and I'm not sure he could continue to work with someone who's gone back on a contract offer. In effect, it would have been constructive dismissal. Now I agree that we ought to have just let him go, I was already in the out camp at that point. However, plenty weren't and Evans clearly wasn't either. |
Indeed, most of the month after the contract was announced was pretty good (DWDWW), climbing back to top spot. Until the 28th, when we lost to up-and-coming Rotherham.
It's what happened after that which has been the real disaster. | |
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| Lambert's new contract on 10:11 - Mar 9 with 1338 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| Lambert's new contract on 09:51 - Mar 9 by WD19 |
So what you are saying is that the form dropped off about the time that the contract started to be discussed/negotiated.......
.....and remained poor throughout the negotiation period.....
.....so what ME should have done is withdrawn the contract offer entirely and perpetuate that period of insecurity and distraction......
.....and that would definitely, never, not ever be interpreted by some fans as undermining a popular manager who was top of the league.
P.S. I thought the contract was nuts too. But hindsight is a wonderful thing. |
If circumstances chance then yes.
What looked sensible two months ago is not necessarily the right thing two months later.
The contract didn't need to be withdrawn but could have been put on hold. I don't think it's unreasonable for Evans to say that a contract, given as a reward for going unbeaten for 11 games, is being reviewed off the back of 10 games without a win.
If Lambert couldn't handle that or wasn't confident he could earn that deal back with another good run, it would have been admitting he didn't deserve the contract! | |
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| Lambert's new contract on 10:11 - Mar 9 with 1347 views | PhilTWTD |
| Lambert's new contract on 10:02 - Mar 9 by Guthrum |
I see that, but it could have been structured as a 3-year deal with options to extend. Limiting the liability if it all went wrong in the short term.
Would still have been attractive to the manager, as success followed by renegotiation might lead to improved terms later on. |
The liability is limited to some degree by the deal having break clauses; from what I gather if PL is sacked his payment would be a couple of years of his deal rather than the whole thing. If we fail to make the top six then it's a lower figure. | | | |
| Lambert's new contract on 10:15 - Mar 9 with 1301 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| Lambert's new contract on 10:02 - Mar 9 by Herbivore |
By that point the bad spell had been about 6 weeks rather than several months and we were still in a strong position to finish in the top 6 at the very least. Our run since then has been abysmal, esepcially the last 9 games.
It's easy to say "why didn't he just withdraw the offer?" but as I say, that is essentially giving the manager a vote of no confidence. Lambert is 'old school' and I'm not sure he could continue to work with someone who's gone back on a contract offer. In effect, it would have been constructive dismissal. Now I agree that we ought to have just let him go, I was already in the out camp at that point. However, plenty weren't and Evans clearly wasn't either. |
Well that's all on Evans to offer something so mental to manager that was on a shocking run, after a good run after a shocking run and who most of us were starting to have serious concerns about. | |
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| Lambert's new contract on 10:19 - Mar 9 with 1274 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| Lambert's new contract on 10:11 - Mar 9 by PhilTWTD |
The liability is limited to some degree by the deal having break clauses; from what I gather if PL is sacked his payment would be a couple of years of his deal rather than the whole thing. If we fail to make the top six then it's a lower figure. |
What are we thinking he's on? Got to be £10k a week surely, given where he's come from (Villa, Wolves, Stoke).
So two years is £1m. Imagine what that could have done to the squad!!!
Is there a better job than being a Football Manager. Other jobs if you downed tools you could be sacked for misconduct but if Lambert fancies retiring say, he could effectively play the worst team and tactics imaginable under the guise of thinking it might work and be paid £1m to leave! | |
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| Lambert's new contract on 10:20 - Mar 9 with 1271 views | Dennyx4 |
| Lambert's new contract on 10:11 - Mar 9 by PhilTWTD |
The liability is limited to some degree by the deal having break clauses; from what I gather if PL is sacked his payment would be a couple of years of his deal rather than the whole thing. If we fail to make the top six then it's a lower figure. |
It does feel like we are in a similar position to when Mick left. Very likely that Lambert will go, but having to wait for it to happen - it didn't bode well for us last time. |  | | |
| Lambert's new contract on 10:20 - Mar 9 with 1271 views | Guthrum |
| Lambert's new contract on 10:11 - Mar 9 by PhilTWTD |
The liability is limited to some degree by the deal having break clauses; from what I gather if PL is sacked his payment would be a couple of years of his deal rather than the whole thing. If we fail to make the top six then it's a lower figure. |
Which is good, but the necessity of fulfilling the conditions of a break clause might inhibit acting fast in an emergency. Such as the fleeting possiblity of still making the play-offs and perhaps winning promotion, but having to wait until we can no longer do so in order to activate a break clause and save money. | |
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| Lambert's new contract on 10:26 - Mar 9 with 1253 views | ElephantintheRoom |
As insane as John Cobbold giving Bobby Robson a ten year contract in response to the 'Robson Robson you must go brigade'?
I'm a tad baffled by the anti-Lambert brigade on here. As soon as he was appointed it was blindingly obvious he was PR-friendly but clueless yet the support in the ground - and indeed on here - proudly applauded a well-earned relegation that was accelerated to Warp factor 10 under Lambo.
The third division is very competitive - and quite difficult to get out of. Town are woeful and full of unreliable players - and seem unable to keep key players fit. Look above Town in this division...Sunderland, Coventry, Oxford, Coventry, Portsmouth.... all those have been in the Prem and or won things more recently than Town. All have sunk a bit before getting where they are. I'd argue, given the injuries Town are more or less where they should be... maybe a bit above par.
By giving Lambert a five year contract Evans was hoping for a bit of stability presumably - and showing the players that the manager couldn't be hounded out by useless, underperforming players.
Granted it hasn't worked that well, surprise, surprise - but intolerant 'support' isn't going to help overmuch I suspect. | |
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| Lambert's new contract on 10:28 - Mar 9 with 1231 views | Herbivore |
| Lambert's new contract on 10:15 - Mar 9 by WarkTheWarkITFC |
Well that's all on Evans to offer something so mental to manager that was on a shocking run, after a good run after a shocking run and who most of us were starting to have serious concerns about. |
At the time it was offered we were top, so I guess it didn't seem so 'mental' at that point. I think you're being naive to think that Evans could realistically just do a 180 on the contract offer after a bad run, as I said it would effectively make Lambert's position untenable. The contract was agreed, to then withdraw the offer is to effectively sack him. That probably would have been the right call but not everyone would have agreed back on the 1st of January. Those of us who didn't think he was up to it were still a minority at that point. | |
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