| Petition 13:57 - Mar 23 with 2418 views | Guthrum |
For the Government to give more help at this time to freelances and the self-employed, in line with that for employees.
http://tinyurl.com/ra6ebk6 |  |
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| Petition on 14:34 - Mar 23 with 1509 views | BrixtonBlue |
I was until I saw you had to put your employer's name as well as yours. Why do they ask that? I'm not comfortable with giving out that sort of information. Not sure what the "Organise platform" is anyway. Is this a legit petition? |  |
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| Petition on 14:42 - Mar 23 with 1486 views | EdwardStone |
I think that it might be our turn this afternoon.... |  | | |
| Petition on 14:44 - Mar 23 with 1478 views | tractorboy7777 |
The difficulty with self employed workers is how do you determine whether what their income should be?
Those who work repeatedly for the same group of clients who perhaps have decided against using the worker now, perhaps that can be easily worked out.
But, plumbers for example, they might go through dry spells (pardon the pun) in the year that aren’t necessarily consistent in timings.
You could use the previous tax return amounts (this would hit the cash in hand workers!) but then this penalises the newly self employed workers who have been establishing themselves over this year and their income is now higher than before.
Basically it’s not as straight forward as it is for employed workers |  |
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| Petition on 14:45 - Mar 23 with 1474 views | BrixtonBlue |
That's more like it. Done. | |
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| Petition on 14:47 - Mar 23 with 1462 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Petition on 14:44 - Mar 23 by tractorboy7777 |
The difficulty with self employed workers is how do you determine whether what their income should be?
Those who work repeatedly for the same group of clients who perhaps have decided against using the worker now, perhaps that can be easily worked out.
But, plumbers for example, they might go through dry spells (pardon the pun) in the year that aren’t necessarily consistent in timings.
You could use the previous tax return amounts (this would hit the cash in hand workers!) but then this penalises the newly self employed workers who have been establishing themselves over this year and their income is now higher than before.
Basically it’s not as straight forward as it is for employed workers |
Pay them a flat rate so they can at least get by (i.e £1k a month)? | |
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| Petition on 14:49 - Mar 23 with 1452 views | portmanking |
| Petition on 14:47 - Mar 23 by BrixtonBlue |
Pay them a flat rate so they can at least get by (i.e £1k a month)? |
Fairest way I've seen is to pay 80% of a self-employed professional's average income derived from their last 3 self-assessment returns. Should be quick and easy for HMRC to calculate too. | | | |
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| Petition on 14:54 - Mar 23 with 1424 views | StokieBlue |
| Petition on 14:47 - Mar 23 by BrixtonBlue |
Pay them a flat rate so they can at least get by (i.e £1k a month)? |
Playing devils advocate:
How will the people feel who are still working but get less than that a month?
As it stands there must be a decent number of people not working getting more income that some people who are working. If this goes on for a long time there could be a part of society who feel put out.
To reiterate, I totally agree that something needs to be done (your proposal is absolutely fine and hopefully they will do something today).
SB [Post edited 23 Mar 2020 14:55]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Petition on 14:54 - Mar 23 with 1422 views | portmanking |
The one you've linked to is only about SSP though as opposed to a temporary income grant? | | | |
| Petition on 14:55 - Mar 23 with 1411 views | portmanking |
| Petition on 14:54 - Mar 23 by StokieBlue |
Playing devils advocate:
How will the people feel who are still working but get less than that a month?
As it stands there must be a decent number of people not working getting more income that some people who are working. If this goes on for a long time there could be a part of society who feel put out.
To reiterate, I totally agree that something needs to be done (your proposal is absolutely fine and hopefully they will do something today).
SB [Post edited 23 Mar 2020 14:55]
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Pay 80% of a self-employed professional's average income from their last 3 SA tax returns. Accounts for peaks and troughs of work over three working years. It's about as fair and accurate as we'll get. | | | |
| Petition on 14:57 - Mar 23 with 1398 views | tractorboy7777 |
| Petition on 14:49 - Mar 23 by portmanking |
Fairest way I've seen is to pay 80% of a self-employed professional's average income derived from their last 3 self-assessment returns. Should be quick and easy for HMRC to calculate too. |
Up to the £2500 per month like employed.
That is the easiest way, working out an average. Mortgage providers use last three years to determine someone’s income.
Like I say, it hurts the newly self employed building up their trade but perhaps include their previous working earnings from P45s/P60s in the earlier tax years. | |
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| Petition on 14:58 - Mar 23 with 1394 views | portmanking |
| Petition on 14:57 - Mar 23 by tractorboy7777 |
Up to the £2500 per month like employed.
That is the easiest way, working out an average. Mortgage providers use last three years to determine someone’s income.
Like I say, it hurts the newly self employed building up their trade but perhaps include their previous working earnings from P45s/P60s in the earlier tax years. |
Of course.
Say you'd only be self-employed for 12 months, you'd get an average based on your last 12 months and last 24 months as a PAYE employee. | | | |
| Petition on 15:00 - Mar 23 with 1384 views | Guthrum |
| Petition on 14:34 - Mar 23 by BrixtonBlue |
I was until I saw you had to put your employer's name as well as yours. Why do they ask that? I'm not comfortable with giving out that sort of information. Not sure what the "Organise platform" is anyway. Is this a legit petition? |
I didn't have to put that (am SE anyway). Bit naughty if so. | |
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| Petition on 15:03 - Mar 23 with 1372 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Petition on 14:54 - Mar 23 by StokieBlue |
Playing devils advocate:
How will the people feel who are still working but get less than that a month?
As it stands there must be a decent number of people not working getting more income that some people who are working. If this goes on for a long time there could be a part of society who feel put out.
To reiterate, I totally agree that something needs to be done (your proposal is absolutely fine and hopefully they will do something today).
SB [Post edited 23 Mar 2020 14:55]
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Yeah it's a fair point Stokers. | |
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| Petition on 15:04 - Mar 23 with 1375 views | StokieBlue |
| Petition on 14:55 - Mar 23 by portmanking |
Pay 80% of a self-employed professional's average income from their last 3 SA tax returns. Accounts for peaks and troughs of work over three working years. It's about as fair and accurate as we'll get. |
Still playing devils advocate how is someone cleaning hospitals non-stop but taking home less than that going to feel about someone sitting at home and getting more than they do for doing nothing?
I know it has to be done as I said and I do think it should be done ASAP but just playing the devils advocate I haven't really heard this mentioned at all.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Petition on 15:06 - Mar 23 with 1366 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Petition on 14:49 - Mar 23 by portmanking |
Fairest way I've seen is to pay 80% of a self-employed professional's average income derived from their last 3 self-assessment returns. Should be quick and easy for HMRC to calculate too. |
Doesn't help people new to freelancing. Also, I've freelanced for 2.5 years and only ever filled in a self-assessment once. Mostly the company employing us will pay the tax to our umbrella company/agency, and they pay it as if we are employed by them (so not technically self employed).
It's rather more complicated than you've suggested. | |
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| Petition on 15:08 - Mar 23 with 1362 views | tractorboy7777 |
| Petition on 15:04 - Mar 23 by StokieBlue |
Still playing devils advocate how is someone cleaning hospitals non-stop but taking home less than that going to feel about someone sitting at home and getting more than they do for doing nothing?
I know it has to be done as I said and I do think it should be done ASAP but just playing the devils advocate I haven't really heard this mentioned at all.
SB |
That’s no different to an employed person benefiting from that allowance.. they’re receiving the 80% because there’s no work for them available.
80% may be high as it is a self employed workers decision whether to look for work or not, the 80% for employed is for those who haven’t the option but to stay at home. | |
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| Petition on 15:08 - Mar 23 with 1360 views | portmanking |
| Petition on 15:04 - Mar 23 by StokieBlue |
Still playing devils advocate how is someone cleaning hospitals non-stop but taking home less than that going to feel about someone sitting at home and getting more than they do for doing nothing?
I know it has to be done as I said and I do think it should be done ASAP but just playing the devils advocate I haven't really heard this mentioned at all.
SB |
Delicate issue indeed, but you'd have to argue that SE (such as me) that have taken the risk to work for themselves deserve recognition/support just as much as those cleaning hospitals non-stop (who will probably be glad for the employment and have a reasonable pension scheme to underpin them). | | | |
| Petition on 15:10 - Mar 23 with 1351 views | mos |
| Petition on 14:44 - Mar 23 by tractorboy7777 |
The difficulty with self employed workers is how do you determine whether what their income should be?
Those who work repeatedly for the same group of clients who perhaps have decided against using the worker now, perhaps that can be easily worked out.
But, plumbers for example, they might go through dry spells (pardon the pun) in the year that aren’t necessarily consistent in timings.
You could use the previous tax return amounts (this would hit the cash in hand workers!) but then this penalises the newly self employed workers who have been establishing themselves over this year and their income is now higher than before.
Basically it’s not as straight forward as it is for employed workers |
No need to be pedantic.
Something is better than nothing, and I’m sure there are some fair ways of giving money to people anyways. |  |
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| Petition on 15:11 - Mar 23 with 1343 views | portmanking |
| Petition on 15:06 - Mar 23 by BrixtonBlue |
Doesn't help people new to freelancing. Also, I've freelanced for 2.5 years and only ever filled in a self-assessment once. Mostly the company employing us will pay the tax to our umbrella company/agency, and they pay it as if we are employed by them (so not technically self employed).
It's rather more complicated than you've suggested. |
Yes, so you are more of a contractor than a freelancer or self-employed. I.e. you would have been under the microscope of IR35 for private sector.
Point remains - HMRC would use the last 3 years of P60s to generate an average income. | | | |
| Petition on 15:12 - Mar 23 with 1341 views | StokieBlue |
| Petition on 15:08 - Mar 23 by portmanking |
Delicate issue indeed, but you'd have to argue that SE (such as me) that have taken the risk to work for themselves deserve recognition/support just as much as those cleaning hospitals non-stop (who will probably be glad for the employment and have a reasonable pension scheme to underpin them). |
You've missed the point I was making.
They won't be getting support because they are still working and doing a very important job so they get nothing from the government. You won't be working but you will be getting a decent amount from the government.
As I said, this doesn't mean you shouldn't get help - just pointing out the inequality of it and how some of them might end up feeling in 4 months time. Put yourself in their position instead of yours.
SB [Post edited 23 Mar 2020 15:12]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Petition on 15:13 - Mar 23 with 1336 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Petition on 15:04 - Mar 23 by StokieBlue |
Still playing devils advocate how is someone cleaning hospitals non-stop but taking home less than that going to feel about someone sitting at home and getting more than they do for doing nothing?
I know it has to be done as I said and I do think it should be done ASAP but just playing the devils advocate I haven't really heard this mentioned at all.
SB |
The alternative is freelancers starving/being made homeless.
When I had gaps in my freelance employment I was able to get Universal Credit (and didn't have a problem getting it as some seem to have done). Not sure if that's the solution either, but it certainly worked for me. | |
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| Petition on 15:14 - Mar 23 with 1323 views | StokieBlue |
| Petition on 15:13 - Mar 23 by BrixtonBlue |
The alternative is freelancers starving/being made homeless.
When I had gaps in my freelance employment I was able to get Universal Credit (and didn't have a problem getting it as some seem to have done). Not sure if that's the solution either, but it certainly worked for me. |
I know hence I said that freelancers and self-employed should definitely get something - I've never said otherwise.
I am just putting out there what might be stoked up in the future.
Probably a UBI based system would have been better but I doubt they had time to really consider that. We must get through it the best we can.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Petition on 15:15 - Mar 23 with 1318 views | BloomBlue |
| Petition on 15:06 - Mar 23 by BrixtonBlue |
Doesn't help people new to freelancing. Also, I've freelanced for 2.5 years and only ever filled in a self-assessment once. Mostly the company employing us will pay the tax to our umbrella company/agency, and they pay it as if we are employed by them (so not technically self employed).
It's rather more complicated than you've suggested. |
It's very complex for self employed and especially those contracting. Now I'm not trying to be rude to anyone and based on a story on the radio last week the IR is about to change the rules again for contractors, however isn't one of the advantages of being a contractor that you don't pay a huge amount of tax it's done via dividends and offsetting expenses?
Not trying to be rude but would looking at HRMC records actually reflect when an individual really needs to earn? |  | | |
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