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Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? 18:32 - Mar 26 with 8814 viewsmonytowbray

No help til June. Ridiculous. I’m incredibly lucky I’m still working but I have friends in music who are going to be unable to eat.

We’re doing our bit for community spirit, I suggest the Tories join the real world and do the same.

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Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 21:16 - Mar 26 with 2449 viewsmonytowbray

Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 20:56 - Mar 26 by GlasgowBlue

Note the difference between your whinging political point scoring and the non partisan post from a senior opposition politician who is widely supportive but raises a genuine concern.

[Post edited 26 Mar 2020 21:10]


So what you are saying is you’ve got the arse over me having a point?

I’m a random sh1tmuncher on a forum, I’m not addressing the nation.

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Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 21:26 - Mar 26 with 2426 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 20:56 - Mar 26 by GlasgowBlue

Note the difference between your whinging political point scoring and the non partisan post from a senior opposition politician who is widely supportive but raises a genuine concern.

[Post edited 26 Mar 2020 21:10]


Middle class dinner party talk you can believe in!

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
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Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 21:49 - Mar 26 with 2400 viewsJ2BLUE

Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 20:12 - Mar 26 by StokieBlue

How much would this UBI be worth per month per person?

I am in favour of something like that but it's not simple to setup like you are implying and would be very expensive over any amount of time.

The main gripe is you have criticised virtually everything the government has done for weeks now without ever offering any solutions of substance without giving any leeway for the fact it's completely unprecedented times. You seem to think there should have been a plan in a folder somewhere they could have immediately implemented.

SB
[Post edited 26 Mar 2020 20:19]


Christ this thread has exploded.


£1000 per month per person would be approximately £67bn per month. That's before voluntary repayment from those who don't need it. Also kids could receive less.

I believe there is a one trillion relief fund. Three months of this would be £201bn.

I'm not suggesting it's a flawless idea but would have helped everyone relatively quickly.

Truly impaired.
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Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 21:50 - Mar 26 with 2401 viewsBlueForYou

Have to say, I think Boris & his team are so far dealing with this very well. The help measures announced for everybody are unprecedented. Measures like these never existed for previous economic meltdowns, which caused much grief at the time. It’s very good for me now, I’ve been self employed for more years than I can remember. I am still working but can stop & fall back on the scheme if I need to. Plus get a tax rebate in June! Taken many years of very hard work, blood sweat & tears, etc, to arrive at this point though. If you’re good at what you do, are decent & positive with people, then you will reap what you sow eventually, but t’s a long hard road.
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Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 21:52 - Mar 26 with 2396 viewsSwansea_Blue

Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 18:57 - Mar 26 by homer_123

No different from companies having to claim back wages Callis.


It’s a big difference for the workers though. Hopefully people will be able to take mortgage payment/rent holidays and have enough cash to manage for a couple of months.

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Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 21:58 - Mar 26 with 2383 viewsSwansea_Blue

Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 20:56 - Mar 26 by GlasgowBlue

Note the difference between your whinging political point scoring and the non partisan post from a senior opposition politician who is widely supportive but raises a genuine concern.

[Post edited 26 Mar 2020 21:10]


So effectively Callis is raising the same point as Burnham, just less diplomatically. It’ll obviously be a stretch for many to go 2-2.5 months with no income.

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Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 21:58 - Mar 26 with 2382 viewsjaykay

Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 19:43 - Mar 26 by Pecker

Really. This is costing the government £Billion. They are doing what they can for the majority of the population. Another political points scoring post. They really are getting stupid now.


i think it will us who will paying this like the 500 billion the banks got 2008

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Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 22:03 - Mar 26 with 2367 viewsStokieBlue

Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 21:49 - Mar 26 by J2BLUE

Christ this thread has exploded.


£1000 per month per person would be approximately £67bn per month. That's before voluntary repayment from those who don't need it. Also kids could receive less.

I believe there is a one trillion relief fund. Three months of this would be £201bn.

I'm not suggesting it's a flawless idea but would have helped everyone relatively quickly.


I've said previously that UBI might have been a better way to go than the 80% but I am not sure it's quite as simply to setup as one might imagine. It certainly has benefits though.

I would also say that 1000 per month isn't enough in many parts of the country and only 40% of the amount available through the current scheme. Where did you get the 1 trillion GBP figure from?

SB

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Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 22:06 - Mar 26 with 2355 viewsmonytowbray

Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 21:58 - Mar 26 by Swansea_Blue

So effectively Callis is raising the same point as Burnham, just less diplomatically. It’ll obviously be a stretch for many to go 2-2.5 months with no income.


But as Banksy said, I didn't say it in a posh enough accent.

I've been thinking and here are my thoughts...

Set up site: gov.uk/covid-payment
Everyone logs on and enters their bank details with their NI number and/or ID number (passport/driving license)
It goes into a massive database
The government pay everyone a universal income, however much is fitting
Those without the internet can do it over the phone
The government make it clear people shouldn't take the p1ss and those who do will be made to pay it back and may face fines
When this is all over use machine learning and AI to sort out any overpayments, there would be ways considering what I've seen possible.

As someone who works in tech I'd say this would be completely possible to do. Problem is anyone who's ever tried to do anything tax related or find information on a government website could tell you they really lack web experts on a national and local level.

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Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 22:10 - Mar 26 with 2344 viewsJ2BLUE

Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 22:03 - Mar 26 by StokieBlue

I've said previously that UBI might have been a better way to go than the 80% but I am not sure it's quite as simply to setup as one might imagine. It certainly has benefits though.

I would also say that 1000 per month isn't enough in many parts of the country and only 40% of the amount available through the current scheme. Where did you get the 1 trillion GBP figure from?

SB


I read something which said 'part of a £1 trillion bail out package' but I can't find any evidence of it so happy to retract the point.

I mentioned it in a previous post on here a few days ago so i'll go back and see if I had a source.

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Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 22:12 - Mar 26 with 2338 viewsStokieBlue

Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 22:10 - Mar 26 by J2BLUE

I read something which said 'part of a £1 trillion bail out package' but I can't find any evidence of it so happy to retract the point.

I mentioned it in a previous post on here a few days ago so i'll go back and see if I had a source.


I believe that's the US bailout package. 1tn GBP is 40% of our GDP.

Don't worry about going back - it's not really important to the thrust of your main UBI point.

SB

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Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 22:15 - Mar 26 with 2328 viewsRegencyBlue

So what would you suggest and how would you implement it?

It’s all very well criticising everything the Government is doing but how would you get a completely new system up and running any quicker?
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Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 22:22 - Mar 26 with 2310 viewsmonytowbray

Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 22:15 - Mar 26 by RegencyBlue

So what would you suggest and how would you implement it?

It’s all very well criticising everything the Government is doing but how would you get a completely new system up and running any quicker?


See my post a few above.

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Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 22:31 - Mar 26 with 2295 viewsSwansea_Blue

Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 22:12 - Mar 26 by StokieBlue

I believe that's the US bailout package. 1tn GBP is 40% of our GDP.

Don't worry about going back - it's not really important to the thrust of your main UBI point.

SB


$2 trillion now. Senate just approved today.

Barely worth getting out of bed for

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Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 22:50 - Mar 26 with 2278 viewsbobwya

I have followed this thread and very few have mentioned the logistical problems The government has been faced with an unprecedented problem. They may well have made mistakes, may well have reacted to slowly in some areas but they are trying to deliver help to millions of individuals and thousands of employers. Delivering new benefits and allowances requires new systems and processes to be put in place. Even more importantly the staff used have to understand those systems and be capable of delivering. Indeed, I'm sure some of the self employed who find themselves out of work would be welcome as temporary recruits by HMRC and DWP. Whatever benefit or allowances were introduced it just cannot happen overnight.
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Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 23:07 - Mar 26 with 2260 viewsmonytowbray

Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 22:50 - Mar 26 by bobwya

I have followed this thread and very few have mentioned the logistical problems The government has been faced with an unprecedented problem. They may well have made mistakes, may well have reacted to slowly in some areas but they are trying to deliver help to millions of individuals and thousands of employers. Delivering new benefits and allowances requires new systems and processes to be put in place. Even more importantly the staff used have to understand those systems and be capable of delivering. Indeed, I'm sure some of the self employed who find themselves out of work would be welcome as temporary recruits by HMRC and DWP. Whatever benefit or allowances were introduced it just cannot happen overnight.


There's realistic though, and then there's 3 months of waiting.

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Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 23:22 - Mar 26 with 2250 viewsSwansea_Blue

Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 22:50 - Mar 26 by bobwya

I have followed this thread and very few have mentioned the logistical problems The government has been faced with an unprecedented problem. They may well have made mistakes, may well have reacted to slowly in some areas but they are trying to deliver help to millions of individuals and thousands of employers. Delivering new benefits and allowances requires new systems and processes to be put in place. Even more importantly the staff used have to understand those systems and be capable of delivering. Indeed, I'm sure some of the self employed who find themselves out of work would be welcome as temporary recruits by HMRC and DWP. Whatever benefit or allowances were introduced it just cannot happen overnight.


I assume that’s why there’s talk about a UBI or advance payment as you wouldn’t need a new process. If speed was a priority it sounds like there would be options to help people earlier.

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Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 09:46 - Mar 27 with 2164 viewsGaryCooper

If you had not spent the last month acting like a Lord Haw Haw Banshee on speed then when you genuinely have a good point as you have here then people may listen.

3 months is far too long to wait for the self employed, especially sole traders.
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Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 10:01 - Mar 27 with 2159 viewstextbackup

Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 18:57 - Mar 26 by monytowbray

People who can’t work through no fault of their own to be able to eat and pay their bills. That’s not a big ask is it?

Self employed have been left out to dry in all this.


don't these people save any money for a rainy day?
many of my mates are self employed, they earn very well, they don't always pay tax as cash in hand jobs, so id ask why theres no fallback plan for themselves, off their own backs.
the notion of using your own savings to survive on seems to have just been forgotten about but many, just looking to the government to help them out.
[Post edited 27 Mar 2020 10:17]

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Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 10:05 - Mar 27 with 2151 viewsLord_Lucan

Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 10:01 - Mar 27 by textbackup

don't these people save any money for a rainy day?
many of my mates are self employed, they earn very well, they don't always pay tax as cash in hand jobs, so id ask why theres no fallback plan for themselves, off their own backs.
the notion of using your own savings to survive on seems to have just been forgotten about but many, just looking to the government to help them out.
[Post edited 27 Mar 2020 10:17]


It's a very good point, I think after this many of us may heed what we were told by our parents about rainy days.

Whilst I am sure there are people who generally live hand to mouth the vast majority had never had it so good with their Costa Coffee mornings, IPhones and Ipads, speed drinking shots at the bar etc etc.

I include myself in this.

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Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 10:10 - Mar 27 with 2136 viewsmonytowbray

Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 10:05 - Mar 27 by Lord_Lucan

It's a very good point, I think after this many of us may heed what we were told by our parents about rainy days.

Whilst I am sure there are people who generally live hand to mouth the vast majority had never had it so good with their Costa Coffee mornings, IPhones and Ipads, speed drinking shots at the bar etc etc.

I include myself in this.


I include myself too. In fact I seem to have more money than usual right now because there's little to go spend it on and I've got refunds coming in from a holiday now cancelled.

But it would be a stretch to assume everyone is in that boat.

I could cover 3 months of bills, but again if push comes to shove I don't see why anyone should be punished for something that isn't their fault and lose their savings. Life isn't fair, etc, but there's a middle ground here somewhere.

Also worth remembering those things you list a lot of people expense. I only expense travel and hardware/software costs personally because I think getting the government to pay for my coffee is taking the p1ss. I see tax as a moral obligation, even if I don't agree with how a lot of it is spent by the powers that be.
[Post edited 27 Mar 2020 10:11]

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Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 10:14 - Mar 27 with 2128 viewstextbackup

Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 10:05 - Mar 27 by Lord_Lucan

It's a very good point, I think after this many of us may heed what we were told by our parents about rainy days.

Whilst I am sure there are people who generally live hand to mouth the vast majority had never had it so good with their Costa Coffee mornings, IPhones and Ipads, speed drinking shots at the bar etc etc.

I include myself in this.


I completely and utterly feel for anyone that will genuinely struggle, but with brickies on 200+ a day, over charging on materials, driving huge flash 4x4's etc....
electricians, even in Ipswich, on 250 a day then charging for materials on top of that...

I was told at a very young age to live within my means, never ever put overtime pay in a budget as it could stop at any point. etc

callis speaks of friends in music that wont be able to afford to eat.... I mean, music is one of those industries that is difficult at the best of times i'd imagine, so why not do that part time but have a main income source from a job you don't really like but it has security. I don't particularly like my job, but needs must and all that.
think a lot of people will come out of this with a different outlook, maybe more of a "just get on with it" as opposed to finding a job to "express themselves"

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Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 10:19 - Mar 27 with 2107 viewsNewcyBlue

Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 10:10 - Mar 27 by monytowbray

I include myself too. In fact I seem to have more money than usual right now because there's little to go spend it on and I've got refunds coming in from a holiday now cancelled.

But it would be a stretch to assume everyone is in that boat.

I could cover 3 months of bills, but again if push comes to shove I don't see why anyone should be punished for something that isn't their fault and lose their savings. Life isn't fair, etc, but there's a middle ground here somewhere.

Also worth remembering those things you list a lot of people expense. I only expense travel and hardware/software costs personally because I think getting the government to pay for my coffee is taking the p1ss. I see tax as a moral obligation, even if I don't agree with how a lot of it is spent by the powers that be.
[Post edited 27 Mar 2020 10:11]


You’re not being punished for having life savings.

If you used your life savings so that more of your mates who don’t have savings could eat and have hot water, would that not be a good use of your savings?

You’re lucky to have savings compared to your mates. Now you think the government should protect your savings??

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Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 10:21 - Mar 27 with 2104 viewsStokieBlue

Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 10:10 - Mar 27 by monytowbray

I include myself too. In fact I seem to have more money than usual right now because there's little to go spend it on and I've got refunds coming in from a holiday now cancelled.

But it would be a stretch to assume everyone is in that boat.

I could cover 3 months of bills, but again if push comes to shove I don't see why anyone should be punished for something that isn't their fault and lose their savings. Life isn't fair, etc, but there's a middle ground here somewhere.

Also worth remembering those things you list a lot of people expense. I only expense travel and hardware/software costs personally because I think getting the government to pay for my coffee is taking the p1ss. I see tax as a moral obligation, even if I don't agree with how a lot of it is spent by the powers that be.
[Post edited 27 Mar 2020 10:11]


Seems the implication of the support being given to the self-employed is that the tax laws will change after the crisis and be moved further in line with that of employed people. I guess this process was already underway with the IR35 reforms though.

SB

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Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 10:22 - Mar 27 with 2097 viewsmonytowbray

Rishi does realise bills are monthly, right? on 10:14 - Mar 27 by textbackup

I completely and utterly feel for anyone that will genuinely struggle, but with brickies on 200+ a day, over charging on materials, driving huge flash 4x4's etc....
electricians, even in Ipswich, on 250 a day then charging for materials on top of that...

I was told at a very young age to live within my means, never ever put overtime pay in a budget as it could stop at any point. etc

callis speaks of friends in music that wont be able to afford to eat.... I mean, music is one of those industries that is difficult at the best of times i'd imagine, so why not do that part time but have a main income source from a job you don't really like but it has security. I don't particularly like my job, but needs must and all that.
think a lot of people will come out of this with a different outlook, maybe more of a "just get on with it" as opposed to finding a job to "express themselves"


When I say music, a lot of these people are roadies, drivers, booking agents, stage managers, techs, etc. I'm not just talking some tosser with a guitar having a jolly.

These people can't do their job if the entire live music circuit stops overnight. Many bands have overheads too and are now sat on stockpiles of tour merch.

It's a genuine issue and I find it quite embarrassing for some on here they would try and twist my genuine concern for people I am close to into a game of point scoring.

You are also correct on the music being difficult point. It's a labour of love for the most part. I know some people doing it who are hanging on by a thread, many of which have temp or part time jobs when not on the road or outside of festival season.

The stereotype that all self-employed folk are off having a jolly doing FA all day, overcharging and living on avocados makes me wonder how we got to the point of holding anyone doing a job to that level of dislike, and furthermore makes me wonder if the government feel the same. Which is ironic seeing as they apparently love the concept of entrepreneurism and hard graft. I worked my arse off to get where I am and continue to do so. Very rare I have a 5 day week.

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