| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today 08:13 - Mar 28 with 1828 views | Guthrum |
I think that the Fitch's and Moody's ratings will cease to be the shibboleth they were among economists. After all, if everybody's ratings have been reduced to junk due to large-scale government borrowing, they become meaningless.
Not such a bad thing, as I don't approve of interested organisations having that kind of leverage. |  |
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| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 08:15 - Mar 28 with 1799 views | hype313 |
Let's be honest, which country will prosper out of this, none I expect as its hitting everyone hard, as you say these ratings agencies are going to have to class everyone as junk given the financial stimulus we are all undertaking. |  |
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| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 08:20 - Mar 28 with 1780 views | jimmyvet |
I don’t think they have had much credibility since 2008 in fairness..... |  | | |
| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 08:28 - Mar 28 with 1744 views | giant_stow |
| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 08:15 - Mar 28 by hype313 |
Let's be honest, which country will prosper out of this, none I expect as its hitting everyone hard, as you say these ratings agencies are going to have to class everyone as junk given the financial stimulus we are all undertaking. |
Maybe china? They have the tools to lockdown the best when needed... |  |
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| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 08:32 - Mar 28 with 1742 views | StokieBlue |
They are greatly diminished in standing since 2008 anyway. S&P, Fitch and Moodys couldn't model various instruments and assumptions and just said that as long as banks buy monoline insurance then the instrument is AAA regardless.
I am quite surprised they survived in he way they have.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 08:36 - Mar 28 with 1723 views | Guthrum |
| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 08:28 - Mar 28 by giant_stow |
Maybe china? They have the tools to lockdown the best when needed... |
China won't prosper if their biggest marketplaces go into deep recession. Nobody to sell stuff to. | |
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| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 08:39 - Mar 28 with 1719 views | Guthrum |
| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 08:32 - Mar 28 by StokieBlue |
They are greatly diminished in standing since 2008 anyway. S&P, Fitch and Moodys couldn't model various instruments and assumptions and just said that as long as banks buy monoline insurance then the instrument is AAA regardless.
I am quite surprised they survived in he way they have.
SB |
S&P, knew I'd forgotten one.
Hopefully this will be the final straw for them. [Post edited 28 Mar 2020 8:39]
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| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 08:40 - Mar 28 with 1711 views | giant_stow |
| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 08:36 - Mar 28 by Guthrum |
China won't prosper if their biggest marketplaces go into deep recession. Nobody to sell stuff to. |
Fair enough, but in the relative sense they mau br better off. They also have a hugr internal market to make the most off if exports arr crap. | |
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| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 09:25 - Mar 28 with 1618 views | StokieBlue |
Their response does seem to be rather transparently aimed at their economic revival after this crisis has passed - not that you can really blame them.
However this has all come about because they didn't take things seriously to begin with and tried to silence doctors who were speaking out.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 09:30 - Mar 28 with 1597 views | Lord_Lucan |
I can't read that as I'm not a subscriber but if it is about a possible backlash from the west well this is something that I was pondering yesterday.
I think when this is all over there is going to be some big issues for The Chinese, I don't know what but the world will have a lot of questions.
I guess this also puts paid to my proposed Bat restaurant "Batsnack" |  |
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| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 09:35 - Mar 28 with 1577 views | giant_stow |
Wish i could read it (i actually miss the telegraph) | |
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| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 09:54 - Mar 28 with 1546 views | hype313 |
| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 09:35 - Mar 28 by giant_stow |
Wish i could read it (i actually miss the telegraph) |
Basically Italy are being very aggressive with the Chinese, especially over the buying of Italian companies, getting rid of Italian workers and importing cheap Chinese labour just so they can brand it as made in Italy
Also Spain, Czech Republic and a whole host of other countries are not taking Chinese help with the crisis due to the animosity towards them.
Think China might actually be the worst affected, especially given their recent huge growth which could just as easily disappear as it came. [Post edited 28 Mar 2020 9:55]
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| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 10:20 - Mar 28 with 1515 views | BloomBlue |
| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 09:54 - Mar 28 by hype313 |
Basically Italy are being very aggressive with the Chinese, especially over the buying of Italian companies, getting rid of Italian workers and importing cheap Chinese labour just so they can brand it as made in Italy
Also Spain, Czech Republic and a whole host of other countries are not taking Chinese help with the crisis due to the animosity towards them.
Think China might actually be the worst affected, especially given their recent huge growth which could just as easily disappear as it came. [Post edited 28 Mar 2020 9:55]
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Add in Chinese state media is unscrupulously trying to push the blame for the start of outbreak onto Italy, after previously trying to blame the US army, I don't think the EU or US is going to put China at the top of their help list.
I can actually see a lot of US companies bringing their manufacturing back from China to the US. |  | | |
| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 10:29 - Mar 28 with 1502 views | giant_stow |
| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 09:54 - Mar 28 by hype313 |
Basically Italy are being very aggressive with the Chinese, especially over the buying of Italian companies, getting rid of Italian workers and importing cheap Chinese labour just so they can brand it as made in Italy
Also Spain, Czech Republic and a whole host of other countries are not taking Chinese help with the crisis due to the animosity towards them.
Think China might actually be the worst affected, especially given their recent huge growth which could just as easily disappear as it came. [Post edited 28 Mar 2020 9:55]
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Interesting stuff - ta. | |
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| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 10:39 - Mar 28 with 1489 views | Guthrum |
| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 08:40 - Mar 28 by giant_stow |
Fair enough, but in the relative sense they mau br better off. They also have a hugr internal market to make the most off if exports arr crap. |
Their internal market is not that lucrative really. Lots of people, but most of them with little disposable income. Certainly not sufficient to take up the slack if the USA and Europe aren't buying. | |
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| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 10:44 - Mar 28 with 1481 views | Bent_double |
| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 10:20 - Mar 28 by BloomBlue |
Add in Chinese state media is unscrupulously trying to push the blame for the start of outbreak onto Italy, after previously trying to blame the US army, I don't think the EU or US is going to put China at the top of their help list.
I can actually see a lot of US companies bringing their manufacturing back from China to the US. |
"I can actually see a lot of US companies bringing their manufacturing back from China to the US."
I would hope that is the case in the UK aswell, if this has taught us anything, it's the fact that reliance on one country to manufacture goods/electronics surely isn't a good thing. |  |
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| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 12:25 - Mar 28 with 1400 views | hype313 |
| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 10:44 - Mar 28 by Bent_double |
"I can actually see a lot of US companies bringing their manufacturing back from China to the US."
I would hope that is the case in the UK aswell, if this has taught us anything, it's the fact that reliance on one country to manufacture goods/electronics surely isn't a good thing. |
Trouble is most of us are used to buying goods such as TV's at such cheap prices, can't see much appetite for people to spend double that going forward, unless this pandemic completely changes people's outlook on life, which I'm sure some parts will change our psyche | |
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| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 12:36 - Mar 28 with 1366 views | catch74 |
| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 09:35 - Mar 28 by giant_stow |
Wish i could read it (i actually miss the telegraph) |
China crisis - Wishful Thinking. |  |
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| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 14:59 - Mar 28 with 1274 views | ElephantintheRoom |
It's fair enough. Brexit will irretrievably harm the economy for decades to come at the very time that the government has to rebuild the economy whilst not being able to credibly claim austerity - as austerity created the absence of care in the community and hospital beds, lack of police and public services turkeys now coming home to roost. You cant cut what isnt there - especailly as people now know its needed.
You have to remember we voluntarily crippled our economy and devalued our currency three years ago - so the Uk is well behind the curve on any possible recovery. Add in a bonkers government - and the picture is not entirely rosy. | |
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| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 15:18 - Mar 28 with 1241 views | linhdi |
| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 14:59 - Mar 28 by ElephantintheRoom |
It's fair enough. Brexit will irretrievably harm the economy for decades to come at the very time that the government has to rebuild the economy whilst not being able to credibly claim austerity - as austerity created the absence of care in the community and hospital beds, lack of police and public services turkeys now coming home to roost. You cant cut what isnt there - especailly as people now know its needed.
You have to remember we voluntarily crippled our economy and devalued our currency three years ago - so the Uk is well behind the curve on any possible recovery. Add in a bonkers government - and the picture is not entirely rosy. |
David Davies (bloke who was the first of the chain of useless Brexit Secretaries) said the other day that the economic shock caused by coronavirus might be a good thing, as it will make the future Brexit downturn feel minor in comparison.
I suspect that he's not alone in being glad that CV19 can be blamed.
Meanwhile the £ has fallen horribly against the €. To take a leaf out of DD's book, I guess that isn't an issue as we can't go on holiday anyway.
There is a word for people like him, but I don't want to get banned. | | | |
| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 15:51 - Mar 28 with 1198 views | Radlett_blue |
| Observing the downgrade of the UK's crdit rating today on 08:32 - Mar 28 by StokieBlue |
They are greatly diminished in standing since 2008 anyway. S&P, Fitch and Moodys couldn't model various instruments and assumptions and just said that as long as banks buy monoline insurance then the instrument is AAA regardless.
I am quite surprised they survived in he way they have.
SB |
Moody's in particular got huge (deserved) bad publicity for taking fees from various institutions and then giving their dubious CDO instruments "AAA" ratings as this was a clear conflict of interest. The credit rating agencies continue to exist because someone has to rate the vast number of bonds which are issued so they are fulfilling a need. I've kind of lost touch with that world now, but I met with Linda Huber, Moody's CFO, around the time of the financial crisis & she was one of the most vituperative creatures I have had the misfortune to meet. I'm amazed she survived all that & has now got a senior position at MSCI. |  |
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