| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' 13:00 - Apr 2 with 1561 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
and if the government is getting stick for not rolling it out quickly enough, why doesn't the government just roll it out quickly? Procurement issues? Testing logistics issues?
Simple answers only, please. I'm stupid (I'm not, but I am when it comes to all of this). |  |
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| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 13:03 - Apr 2 with 1286 views | BloomBlue |
Depends on which test you're talking about re the key to unlocking it. The antibody which is the key still needs to be tested as an inaccurate test is worse than no test |  | | |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 13:05 - Apr 2 with 1271 views | Swansea_Blue |
Options:
1. They've been told it won't work, so it's not part of the plan (but by whom, as WHO seems to think it's critical?)
2. They don't want to - herd immunity is still a big part of the plan.
3. They don't want to spend the money.
3. They can't get the materials or people to run the tests.
4. They're disorganised and struggling to respond quickly.
I suspect (4), although the little bit of paranoia in me suggests (2) might be part of the problem, especially if Dom is still pulling some strings with his contraire approach to things. |  |
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| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 13:05 - Apr 2 with 1266 views | gordon |
Because they didn't realise they would have to do this until 2 and a bit weeks ago. |  | | |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 13:05 - Apr 2 with 1269 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 13:03 - Apr 2 by BloomBlue |
Depends on which test you're talking about re the key to unlocking it. The antibody which is the key still needs to be tested as an inaccurate test is worse than no test |
Who is testing the antibody test? Are they testing that here? Or waiting for someone elsewhere to test it? | |
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| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 13:07 - Apr 2 with 1257 views | Swansea_Blue |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 13:03 - Apr 2 by BloomBlue |
Depends on which test you're talking about re the key to unlocking it. The antibody which is the key still needs to be tested as an inaccurate test is worse than no test |
The current debate is around the tests to determine if people have it and are thus infectious, so they can isolate asymptomatic people and trace contacts. Especially important for those working in hospitals, as proven by the deaths were starting to see of people catching the virus in hospital.
Also key for reducing number of unnecessary self-isolations of NHS staff. | |
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| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 13:10 - Apr 2 with 1252 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 13:05 - Apr 2 by Swansea_Blue |
Options:
1. They've been told it won't work, so it's not part of the plan (but by whom, as WHO seems to think it's critical?)
2. They don't want to - herd immunity is still a big part of the plan.
3. They don't want to spend the money.
3. They can't get the materials or people to run the tests.
4. They're disorganised and struggling to respond quickly.
I suspect (4), although the little bit of paranoia in me suggests (2) might be part of the problem, especially if Dom is still pulling some strings with his contraire approach to things. |
1. You'd like to think they'd trust the advice of WHO over whichever individual(s) gave them different information.
2. Won't herd immunity take forever when so many people are in lockdown?
3. Surely it couldn't make that much difference to roll things out quickly versus the cost to the economy of lockdown lasting longer.
3. So procurement and resources issues, in which case it will just take a lot longer.
4. Probably. [Post edited 2 Apr 2020 13:13]
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| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 13:16 - Apr 2 with 1220 views | BloomBlue |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 13:05 - Apr 2 by ThisIsMyUsername |
Who is testing the antibody test? Are they testing that here? Or waiting for someone elsewhere to test it? |
Don't quote me but I got the impression we're doing the testing here. So they've already ordered a load but are now doing the testing to confirm it's actually giving the results they expect / hope for.
I guess its one of those situations of while a company can demonstrate if can do it in a controlled lab and the fact CV is so new they want to test it on people who have recovered from CV to validate it. | | | |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 13:25 - Apr 2 with 1204 views | Swansea_Blue |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 13:10 - Apr 2 by ThisIsMyUsername |
1. You'd like to think they'd trust the advice of WHO over whichever individual(s) gave them different information.
2. Won't herd immunity take forever when so many people are in lockdown?
3. Surely it couldn't make that much difference to roll things out quickly versus the cost to the economy of lockdown lasting longer.
3. So procurement and resources issues, in which case it will just take a lot longer.
4. Probably. [Post edited 2 Apr 2020 13:13]
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Yeah, there are debated to be had around all those points.
1. They still ignore WHO advice (e.g. WHO say to isolate for 14 days if showing symptoms, we self-isolate for 7 days but then 14 days for any household members). They've demonstrated so far that they are prepared to ignore WHO advice and have no wish to learn from other countries of join other countries in joint initiatives (e.g. the EU ventilator and PPE procurement programmes that would put us in a better place. So they're quite happy to place nationalistic ideology over lives.
2. Who knows what the dynamic is behind the scenes. Cummings seems quite prepared to scarifice people for a larger picture. I can't imagine he's changed his views around this, so there's no doubt some interesting discussions going on in Number 10. Slowing the spread will take longer to build up immunity naturally, but that's a good thing for the under-resourced NHS.
3. True. And these types of economic questions seemed to be driving our initial approach. Some people are still arguing that the cost will be less to open everything up and take the hit on extra deaths for the sake of the economy. I think it's a disgusting argument, but there are people. Guther's introduced me to the term 'mammon' yesterday. I hadn't heard of it before - basically the greedy pursuit of wealth, or false worship of money above all else. Sounds morally repugnant to me - surely we should be helping and protecting each other whatever the monetary cost.
4. Apparently there is a shortage of reagents for the current tests. Yet the government also haven't engaged with our chemicals industry regarding producing mre. There's also lots of spare capacity in research labs to run tests, again not explored. Throw that on top of the lack of preparation and readiness, lack of basic protective gear, slow response to develop working practices all leads me to think the main problem is...
5. We've been caught with our pants down. Didn't watch what was happening elsewhere, didn't listen to other countries or the WHO and are now struggling to catch up after belatedly realising we have a problem. | |
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| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 14:02 - Apr 2 with 1169 views | No9 |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 13:25 - Apr 2 by Swansea_Blue |
Yeah, there are debated to be had around all those points.
1. They still ignore WHO advice (e.g. WHO say to isolate for 14 days if showing symptoms, we self-isolate for 7 days but then 14 days for any household members). They've demonstrated so far that they are prepared to ignore WHO advice and have no wish to learn from other countries of join other countries in joint initiatives (e.g. the EU ventilator and PPE procurement programmes that would put us in a better place. So they're quite happy to place nationalistic ideology over lives.
2. Who knows what the dynamic is behind the scenes. Cummings seems quite prepared to scarifice people for a larger picture. I can't imagine he's changed his views around this, so there's no doubt some interesting discussions going on in Number 10. Slowing the spread will take longer to build up immunity naturally, but that's a good thing for the under-resourced NHS.
3. True. And these types of economic questions seemed to be driving our initial approach. Some people are still arguing that the cost will be less to open everything up and take the hit on extra deaths for the sake of the economy. I think it's a disgusting argument, but there are people. Guther's introduced me to the term 'mammon' yesterday. I hadn't heard of it before - basically the greedy pursuit of wealth, or false worship of money above all else. Sounds morally repugnant to me - surely we should be helping and protecting each other whatever the monetary cost.
4. Apparently there is a shortage of reagents for the current tests. Yet the government also haven't engaged with our chemicals industry regarding producing mre. There's also lots of spare capacity in research labs to run tests, again not explored. Throw that on top of the lack of preparation and readiness, lack of basic protective gear, slow response to develop working practices all leads me to think the main problem is...
5. We've been caught with our pants down. Didn't watch what was happening elsewhere, didn't listen to other countries or the WHO and are now struggling to catch up after belatedly realising we have a problem. |
Has the UK been caught with its pants down or is all of this part of the strategy?
The small numbers of tests being performed must bring in to question the accuracy of a small % of a large organisation like the NHS, never mind the population as a whole.
It is difficult to imagine any organisation let alone a government could have got somethin like testing & PPE procurement so badly wrong unless it was planned to be so & not rectified in time? |  | | |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 14:19 - Apr 2 with 1151 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 13:25 - Apr 2 by Swansea_Blue |
Yeah, there are debated to be had around all those points.
1. They still ignore WHO advice (e.g. WHO say to isolate for 14 days if showing symptoms, we self-isolate for 7 days but then 14 days for any household members). They've demonstrated so far that they are prepared to ignore WHO advice and have no wish to learn from other countries of join other countries in joint initiatives (e.g. the EU ventilator and PPE procurement programmes that would put us in a better place. So they're quite happy to place nationalistic ideology over lives.
2. Who knows what the dynamic is behind the scenes. Cummings seems quite prepared to scarifice people for a larger picture. I can't imagine he's changed his views around this, so there's no doubt some interesting discussions going on in Number 10. Slowing the spread will take longer to build up immunity naturally, but that's a good thing for the under-resourced NHS.
3. True. And these types of economic questions seemed to be driving our initial approach. Some people are still arguing that the cost will be less to open everything up and take the hit on extra deaths for the sake of the economy. I think it's a disgusting argument, but there are people. Guther's introduced me to the term 'mammon' yesterday. I hadn't heard of it before - basically the greedy pursuit of wealth, or false worship of money above all else. Sounds morally repugnant to me - surely we should be helping and protecting each other whatever the monetary cost.
4. Apparently there is a shortage of reagents for the current tests. Yet the government also haven't engaged with our chemicals industry regarding producing mre. There's also lots of spare capacity in research labs to run tests, again not explored. Throw that on top of the lack of preparation and readiness, lack of basic protective gear, slow response to develop working practices all leads me to think the main problem is...
5. We've been caught with our pants down. Didn't watch what was happening elsewhere, didn't listen to other countries or the WHO and are now struggling to catch up after belatedly realising we have a problem. |
Thank you for sharing. | |
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| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 14:25 - Apr 2 with 1141 views | bournemouthblue |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 13:05 - Apr 2 by Swansea_Blue |
Options:
1. They've been told it won't work, so it's not part of the plan (but by whom, as WHO seems to think it's critical?)
2. They don't want to - herd immunity is still a big part of the plan.
3. They don't want to spend the money.
3. They can't get the materials or people to run the tests.
4. They're disorganised and struggling to respond quickly.
I suspect (4), although the little bit of paranoia in me suggests (2) might be part of the problem, especially if Dom is still pulling some strings with his contraire approach to things. |
3. has already been widely discredited by the suppliers of the materials in question |  |
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| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 14:39 - Apr 2 with 1131 views | BlueBadger |
A major issue is a lack of testing facilities.
In the wake of the 2012 'reforms' many lab services have been contracted out to the Efficient Private Sector which then downgraded many 'district' labs in favour of 'big' labs at teaching hospitals. Consequently, there now aren't the numbers or the facilities to test as rigorously as we should be and delays in receiving results.
Presently here at [redacted] we are waiting 4 days for test results. [Post edited 2 Apr 2020 14:39]
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| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 14:56 - Apr 2 with 1080 views | itfcjoe |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 13:25 - Apr 2 by Swansea_Blue |
Yeah, there are debated to be had around all those points.
1. They still ignore WHO advice (e.g. WHO say to isolate for 14 days if showing symptoms, we self-isolate for 7 days but then 14 days for any household members). They've demonstrated so far that they are prepared to ignore WHO advice and have no wish to learn from other countries of join other countries in joint initiatives (e.g. the EU ventilator and PPE procurement programmes that would put us in a better place. So they're quite happy to place nationalistic ideology over lives.
2. Who knows what the dynamic is behind the scenes. Cummings seems quite prepared to scarifice people for a larger picture. I can't imagine he's changed his views around this, so there's no doubt some interesting discussions going on in Number 10. Slowing the spread will take longer to build up immunity naturally, but that's a good thing for the under-resourced NHS.
3. True. And these types of economic questions seemed to be driving our initial approach. Some people are still arguing that the cost will be less to open everything up and take the hit on extra deaths for the sake of the economy. I think it's a disgusting argument, but there are people. Guther's introduced me to the term 'mammon' yesterday. I hadn't heard of it before - basically the greedy pursuit of wealth, or false worship of money above all else. Sounds morally repugnant to me - surely we should be helping and protecting each other whatever the monetary cost.
4. Apparently there is a shortage of reagents for the current tests. Yet the government also haven't engaged with our chemicals industry regarding producing mre. There's also lots of spare capacity in research labs to run tests, again not explored. Throw that on top of the lack of preparation and readiness, lack of basic protective gear, slow response to develop working practices all leads me to think the main problem is...
5. We've been caught with our pants down. Didn't watch what was happening elsewhere, didn't listen to other countries or the WHO and are now struggling to catch up after belatedly realising we have a problem. |
2. In fairness to Cummings, when you read the whole piece with the killer line about people dying, it went into more detail and basically stated he was happy to do the full about turn, admit he was wrong and he was one of the main people pushing for full lockdown from a much earlier point to most others involved. |  |
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| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 15:12 - Apr 2 with 1059 views | bournemouthblue |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 14:56 - Apr 2 by itfcjoe |
2. In fairness to Cummings, when you read the whole piece with the killer line about people dying, it went into more detail and basically stated he was happy to do the full about turn, admit he was wrong and he was one of the main people pushing for full lockdown from a much earlier point to most others involved. |
So he was happy for the old to die but wanted an earlier lockdown than others had suggested? | |
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| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 15:32 - Apr 2 with 1046 views | itfcjoe |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 15:12 - Apr 2 by bournemouthblue |
So he was happy for the old to die but wanted an earlier lockdown than others had suggested? |
I can't speak for him, but it read as though he was first to accept that the herd immunity plan was an error and we needed to go the other way and tried to push for that | |
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| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 15:47 - Apr 2 with 1022 views | hampstead_blue |
I've just posted something akin to my answer.
My understanding of the message, which isn't as clear as it should be...is that there is a test which is being tested for efficacy.
They have said often that 'no test is better than a bad test'.....If so what test are they currently using and why not just buy more of them?
Whatever the reasons are I'd like to have some kind of clarity. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 15:52 - Apr 2 with 1010 views | eireblue |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 15:47 - Apr 2 by hampstead_blue |
I've just posted something akin to my answer.
My understanding of the message, which isn't as clear as it should be...is that there is a test which is being tested for efficacy.
They have said often that 'no test is better than a bad test'.....If so what test are they currently using and why not just buy more of them?
Whatever the reasons are I'd like to have some kind of clarity. |
Would like some more Bluster from Boris, or possibly incorrect information from a government minister delivered with confidence, but wrong? |  | | |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 15:55 - Apr 2 with 1003 views | Freddies_Ears |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 15:47 - Apr 2 by hampstead_blue |
I've just posted something akin to my answer.
My understanding of the message, which isn't as clear as it should be...is that there is a test which is being tested for efficacy.
They have said often that 'no test is better than a bad test'.....If so what test are they currently using and why not just buy more of them?
Whatever the reasons are I'd like to have some kind of clarity. |
2 weeks ago, the PM said we'd be doing 25,000 tests a day by now. We're not anywhere near half that. And virtually no testing has been done of NHS staff, partly because it was government policy to make few tests available to them (the now-withdrawn 15% x all tests limit).
Meanwhile, WHO hasn't changed its mind that mass testing is important. And Germany continues to do 500,000 tests a week. | | | |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 15:59 - Apr 2 with 999 views | hampstead_blue |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 15:52 - Apr 2 by eireblue |
Would like some more Bluster from Boris, or possibly incorrect information from a government minister delivered with confidence, but wrong? |
There needs to be an irony smiley.
Taken in good heart.
I do agree that the message hasn't been as clear as it could have but look, nobody gets it right in these circumstances.
I've been in trickier and worse situations were the message from the 'higher-ups' was utter bog roll, so we (kind of) ignored it and did what local conditions allowed.....Nothing was said in the wash-up. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 16:06 - Apr 2 with 984 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 15:55 - Apr 2 by Freddies_Ears |
2 weeks ago, the PM said we'd be doing 25,000 tests a day by now. We're not anywhere near half that. And virtually no testing has been done of NHS staff, partly because it was government policy to make few tests available to them (the now-withdrawn 15% x all tests limit).
Meanwhile, WHO hasn't changed its mind that mass testing is important. And Germany continues to do 500,000 tests a week. |
So does anyone know roughly when they're going to pull their fingers out of their collective arse and get moving? Would quite like to get back on with my life ASAP.
Is it a case of waiting for them to realise that maybe the herd immunity plan isn't the best idea, and to prioritise going down the other route, as per the overall WHO advice?
Hopefully the briefing today might offer a bit of a plan.
EDIT - Was the 'up to 6 months but maybe more until things are back to normal' thing based on the herd immunity approach? Could this be reduced in any way if testing became a priority? [Post edited 2 Apr 2020 16:12]
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| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 18:12 - Apr 2 with 918 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
Sounds like we'll be sitting at home for a long time yet. :( | |
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| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 18:31 - Apr 2 with 888 views | Pecker |
He said that the labs are still trying to work out which of the 9 tests available, is the most accurate. He also said that the test everybody is talking about, do not work. I believe they are doing everything that they can and should be left alone to do it. I have no idea how complicated these things are and I would guess that nobody else on here knows either. |  | | |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 18:44 - Apr 2 with 870 views | BloomBlue |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 18:31 - Apr 2 by Pecker |
He said that the labs are still trying to work out which of the 9 tests available, is the most accurate. He also said that the test everybody is talking about, do not work. I believe they are doing everything that they can and should be left alone to do it. I have no idea how complicated these things are and I would guess that nobody else on here knows either. |
I was just watching the BBC news where a reporter did take one from those antibody tests from a company based in NI who are moaning the Gov hasn't spoken to them yet and his test was positive even though he's not had any symptoms or even a cold recently, and as he said it makes you question accuracy or did he do something wrong or has he indeed had it without any symptoms. Which proves they need to do lots of testing first as a bad test is worse than no test | | | |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 19:02 - Apr 2 with 852 views | stonojnr |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 15:55 - Apr 2 by Freddies_Ears |
2 weeks ago, the PM said we'd be doing 25,000 tests a day by now. We're not anywhere near half that. And virtually no testing has been done of NHS staff, partly because it was government policy to make few tests available to them (the now-withdrawn 15% x all tests limit).
Meanwhile, WHO hasn't changed its mind that mass testing is important. And Germany continues to do 500,000 tests a week. |
and Germany have said it will take 3 years to test the whole population of Germany, and they are running out of tests, struggling to produce enough of the chemicals required, finding lots of false positives and actually want to prioritise who is tested to ensure its more effective than their blanket approach so far.
https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/corona-challenge-germany-reaching-t | | | |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 19:24 - Apr 2 with 828 views | Churchman |
| So if mass-testing is the key to 'unlocking the puzzle' on 14:39 - Apr 2 by BlueBadger |
A major issue is a lack of testing facilities.
In the wake of the 2012 'reforms' many lab services have been contracted out to the Efficient Private Sector which then downgraded many 'district' labs in favour of 'big' labs at teaching hospitals. Consequently, there now aren't the numbers or the facilities to test as rigorously as we should be and delays in receiving results.
Presently here at [redacted] we are waiting 4 days for test results. [Post edited 2 Apr 2020 14:39]
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This was confirmed in the briefing tonight and I’m not surprised at the reasons you give for that. The only objective of the tory ‘reforms’ From 2010 on were cut, cut, cut - for ideological reasons as much as debt/deficit. They went for everything in the public sector they could get their hands on and they contracted out or scrapped as much as they could.
This country’s ability to respond or do anything on any scale has been even more hamstrung than it already was, so it’s no surprise the government’s ... sorry ’efforts’ in this crisis are insufficient and late. The result is people who deserve better being left unnecessarily at risk or worse. |  | | |
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