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Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? 22:47 - Apr 2 with 5468 viewsmonytowbray

This advice seems to contradict both.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-patients-more-likely-to-die-may-have-vent

WTF have they been playing at?

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Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 07:00 - Apr 3 with 1782 viewsBlueBadger

Withdrawal of treatment in someone not getting better despite maximal therapy is more common than you'd think in ITU and in now way exceptional to our current Interesting Times.

It's not a case of 'well, let's pull the plug' it's usually a decision arrived at over several days, by multiple consultants looking at someone who, despite every trick in the book being tried(and believe me, ITU consultants have ALL the tricks) is not only not getting better, they are actively deteriorating.

Int the context of COVID-19, which cause fibrosis(scarring) of the lungs, the longer you are ventilated, the less likely you will be to ever get OFF the ventilator and be able to live any kind of meaningful life.

At that point, all you can likely look forward to is a prolonged death, rather than an extended life.

Best way to avoid this happening to YOU is to continue to isolate and look after yourself.
[Post edited 3 Apr 2020 7:12]

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Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 07:00 - Apr 3 with 1765 viewsBloomBlue

Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 23:09 - Apr 2 by monytowbray

Didn’t lock down early enough.
Didn’t take the EU up on ventilators.

If we reach this reality it’s a failure of epic proportions.


Take up on the EU ventilators? If they have so many why aren't they giving them to Italy and Spain who are short of ventilators? All you do is post fake news
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Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 07:29 - Apr 3 with 1743 viewsEly_Blue

Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 23:54 - Apr 2 by reusersfreekicks

Is there any analysis of how many more ventilators we would have if we had said yes? If there are not enough to go round in Spain and Italy where would extra ones for the UK come from?
[Post edited 2 Apr 2020 23:56]


The magic ventilator tree, you know the same one that was the magic money tree when Corbyn and his cronies were trying to buy your votes!

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Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 07:54 - Apr 3 with 1734 viewsNewcyBlue



That was 16th March. The day that the PM asked the British public to not go to pubs, restaurants etc. He asked.

On 19th March https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/mar/19/uk-coronavirus-live-boris-

The PM said mass testing ASAP



This was 20th March. When the PM ordered all pubs etc to close.

Brits are very very different from people around the world. We aren’t overly compliant.

To be clear, this is in response to your “I told you so” earlier on in the thread.

I am not saying the government are doing a good job, I am saying they are responding to the information they have.

Your point about Italy, multiple generation families living together. Older people most likely to have complications. It’s easy to muddy the waters of the data there. Until a direct correlation is seen between the two data sets.

Hindsight is always 20:20 vision. Well done on your isolation, wouldn’t you have felt better if more had done the same rather than go to the pub? You can shout about the government all you like, but at the end of the day, people were just too damned selfish.

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Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 08:58 - Apr 3 with 1704 viewsSwansea_Blue

Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 23:39 - Apr 2 by J2BLUE

Holy sh1t.

'Speaking to the BBC's Andrew Marr, he said that there is "nothing that we can't do as an independent nation that being part of that scheme would allow us to do".'

Is it me or does this sound like they are more concerned about people suggesting we need the EU than getting the equipment we need?

So pleased I voted Labour. Not looking to score political points but i'm glad I had nothing to do with putting these clowns in power.


Quite amazing wasn't it? Not only the perverted nationalistic dogma, but the fact they then brazenly lied to us all about it.

And that's the sad thing - we'd seen they were like this before the election and still people voted for them.

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Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 09:21 - Apr 3 with 1695 viewsmonytowbray

Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 08:58 - Apr 3 by Swansea_Blue

Quite amazing wasn't it? Not only the perverted nationalistic dogma, but the fact they then brazenly lied to us all about it.

And that's the sad thing - we'd seen they were like this before the election and still people voted for them.


Fake news though apparently. That's the point of intellect we're sinking to now :S

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Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 09:32 - Apr 3 with 1682 viewsmonytowbray

Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 07:29 - Apr 3 by Ely_Blue

The magic ventilator tree, you know the same one that was the magic money tree when Corbyn and his cronies were trying to buy your votes!


You mean the magic money tree that did exist all along now based on the fact we have found the funds to support the vulnerable and house the homeless?

The same tree that has had no problem pushing Brexit through at a massive cost higher than what we pay in too.

https://www.businessinsider.com/brexit-will-cost-uk-more-than-total-payments-to-

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Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 09:35 - Apr 3 with 1679 viewsBloomBlue

Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 23:39 - Apr 2 by J2BLUE

Holy sh1t.

'Speaking to the BBC's Andrew Marr, he said that there is "nothing that we can't do as an independent nation that being part of that scheme would allow us to do".'

Is it me or does this sound like they are more concerned about people suggesting we need the EU than getting the equipment we need?

So pleased I voted Labour. Not looking to score political points but i'm glad I had nothing to do with putting these clowns in power.


That's political point scoring, Labour would be doing no better.

Also if the EU is so great with the equipment why is Spain and Italy in desperate need of more ventilators? Maybe, just maybe the EU is also incapable of supplying the ventilators the countries in the EU need.
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Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 09:38 - Apr 3 with 1674 viewsmonytowbray

Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 09:35 - Apr 3 by BloomBlue

That's political point scoring, Labour would be doing no better.

Also if the EU is so great with the equipment why is Spain and Italy in desperate need of more ventilators? Maybe, just maybe the EU is also incapable of supplying the ventilators the countries in the EU need.


Italy and Spain were two weeks ahead of us and chasing their tail. We had the chance when the writing was on the wall to join a scheme to source medical equipment and didn't.

Which looks even worse when you factor in the Dyson promises have seen a worryingly slow start. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-nhs-ventilators-treat

Also odd how they went running straight to other manufacturers and ignored British companies already making them who offered to help: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/26/no-10-boris-johnson-accused-of-put

If we find ourselves in a position short of ventilators, these are the defining moments.
[Post edited 3 Apr 2020 9:43]

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Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 09:42 - Apr 3 with 1670 viewsStokieBlue

Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 09:32 - Apr 3 by monytowbray

You mean the magic money tree that did exist all along now based on the fact we have found the funds to support the vulnerable and house the homeless?

The same tree that has had no problem pushing Brexit through at a massive cost higher than what we pay in too.

https://www.businessinsider.com/brexit-will-cost-uk-more-than-total-payments-to-


There isn't a magic money tree and it's childish to portray it in this way. Would you prefer they didn't borrow loads and did nothing?

The government did what was called by many a "Labour budget" with huge spending increases and the C-19 pandemic has already at least tripled the borrowing that was already at a historic high in that budget. It's spending we can't afford in the same way other countries can't but it is spending that has to happen because of the dire situation.

https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/14771

Brexit is an entirely different matter. A rubbish decision voted for by people who didn't understand the implications or simply didn't care.

SB

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Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 09:46 - Apr 3 with 1662 viewsmonytowbray

Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 09:42 - Apr 3 by StokieBlue

There isn't a magic money tree and it's childish to portray it in this way. Would you prefer they didn't borrow loads and did nothing?

The government did what was called by many a "Labour budget" with huge spending increases and the C-19 pandemic has already at least tripled the borrowing that was already at a historic high in that budget. It's spending we can't afford in the same way other countries can't but it is spending that has to happen because of the dire situation.

https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/14771

Brexit is an entirely different matter. A rubbish decision voted for by people who didn't understand the implications or simply didn't care.

SB


Why are you picking me up on this? I was just replying to Ely's pointless and unneeded comment.

The financial commitment was needed from the outset and I've supported it (despite the timings of releasing the funds and the process being tough).

The point many (and myself) have made is we shouldn't have been at such a low barrier of a starting point to begin with after years of austerity. No one is saying we should have had a war time debt all along.

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Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 09:53 - Apr 3 with 1648 viewsBloomBlue

Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 09:38 - Apr 3 by monytowbray

Italy and Spain were two weeks ahead of us and chasing their tail. We had the chance when the writing was on the wall to join a scheme to source medical equipment and didn't.

Which looks even worse when you factor in the Dyson promises have seen a worryingly slow start. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-nhs-ventilators-treat

Also odd how they went running straight to other manufacturers and ignored British companies already making them who offered to help: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/26/no-10-boris-johnson-accused-of-put

If we find ourselves in a position short of ventilators, these are the defining moments.
[Post edited 3 Apr 2020 9:43]


But again you're not answering questions, it's irrelevant Italy and Spain are ahead if the EU have the supplies then Italy and Spain shouldn't have an issue with supplies and as they do then the EU were too slow. But because everything you say is politically motivated against the Tories you won't criticise the EU for being too slow
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Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 09:57 - Apr 3 with 1636 viewsmonytowbray

Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 09:53 - Apr 3 by BloomBlue

But again you're not answering questions, it's irrelevant Italy and Spain are ahead if the EU have the supplies then Italy and Spain shouldn't have an issue with supplies and as they do then the EU were too slow. But because everything you say is politically motivated against the Tories you won't criticise the EU for being too slow


It's a scheme to get medical equipment, not an existing stock pile. It's another access point for us we were invited to join and turned it down, then went on to lie and say they never received the comms.

How fast or slow the EU moved is besides the point.

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Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 09:58 - Apr 3 with 1633 viewsStokieBlue

Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 07:29 - Apr 3 by Ely_Blue

The magic ventilator tree, you know the same one that was the magic money tree when Corbyn and his cronies were trying to buy your votes!


This really isn't a helpful post. There is no magic money tree and there is a lack of ventilators globally. Trivialising it in this manner is just childish. Why do you feel the need to post in such a manner at this time?

There is an EU scheme but that doesn't have enough as has been shown by Italy and Spain. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have joined it.

SB
[Post edited 3 Apr 2020 9:59]

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Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 10:03 - Apr 3 with 1618 viewsNewcyBlue

Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 23:08 - Apr 2 by monytowbray

Hindsight? I said we should have locked down much sooner than we did in line with what experts were saying. I still worry about the damage that extra weekend did.




Just sayin’.....

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Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? (n/t) on 10:04 - Apr 3 with 1612 viewslongtimefan

Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 09:57 - Apr 3 by monytowbray

It's a scheme to get medical equipment, not an existing stock pile. It's another access point for us we were invited to join and turned it down, then went on to lie and say they never received the comms.

How fast or slow the EU moved is besides the point.


Edited - finger trouble

The scheme may well be a good idea but I’d like to see some facts on what has actually been achieved across the EU. I’m somewhat worried that despite the good intentions it may suffer from nationalistic actions. For instance I read yesterday that France had banned export of all ethanol because it wanted to keep it for internal production of hand sanitisers.
[Post edited 3 Apr 2020 10:09]
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Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 10:04 - Apr 3 with 1610 viewsLord_Lucan

Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 09:53 - Apr 3 by BloomBlue

But again you're not answering questions, it's irrelevant Italy and Spain are ahead if the EU have the supplies then Italy and Spain shouldn't have an issue with supplies and as they do then the EU were too slow. But because everything you say is politically motivated against the Tories you won't criticise the EU for being too slow


Point of fact - direct from a man on the ground.

Three days ago there was a national minutes silence throughout Italy with flags flying half mast. In the town where my friend lives they have taken down the EU flag. Italians are furious with the EU.

This is exactly the time when the EU actually has something meaningful to do.
[Post edited 3 Apr 2020 10:05]

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Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 10:08 - Apr 3 with 1598 viewsmonytowbray

Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 10:04 - Apr 3 by Lord_Lucan

Point of fact - direct from a man on the ground.

Three days ago there was a national minutes silence throughout Italy with flags flying half mast. In the town where my friend lives they have taken down the EU flag. Italians are furious with the EU.

This is exactly the time when the EU actually has something meaningful to do.
[Post edited 3 Apr 2020 10:05]


I'm far from saying the EU have this right. I believe they reacted late too.

My point is purely if there is a potential ventilator shortage in a global crisis, and we're closing windows to potentially source them, there is a problem.

If your mate showed up at the pub an hour late would you reject their offer to buy you a drink? Lazy analogy but it's the best I can think of before I've finished my first coffee.

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Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 10:09 - Apr 3 with 1595 viewsmonytowbray

Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 10:03 - Apr 3 by NewcyBlue



Just sayin’.....


There's forecasting though, and then there's being prepared for the great unknown with what we know we will need.

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Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 10:09 - Apr 3 with 1593 viewsStokieBlue

Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 10:04 - Apr 3 by Lord_Lucan

Point of fact - direct from a man on the ground.

Three days ago there was a national minutes silence throughout Italy with flags flying half mast. In the town where my friend lives they have taken down the EU flag. Italians are furious with the EU.

This is exactly the time when the EU actually has something meaningful to do.
[Post edited 3 Apr 2020 10:05]


It's difficult though, in tough situations like this people tend to be insular and thus look after "their own" first and if they have stuff left they then look after their "friends".

Germany and France stopped exporting medical supplies like PPE more than a month ago. Germany has now lifted that ban but it's too late for Italy or Spain, the damage has been done.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-exports/germany-li

SB

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Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 10:09 - Apr 3 with 1593 viewsBrixtonBlue

Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 23:24 - Apr 2 by Lord_Lucan

No you're not
[Post edited 2 Apr 2020 23:34]


Bit harsh that Lucan. I think Callis' heart is in the right place.

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Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 10:13 - Apr 3 with 1578 viewsmonytowbray

Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 10:09 - Apr 3 by StokieBlue

It's difficult though, in tough situations like this people tend to be insular and thus look after "their own" first and if they have stuff left they then look after their "friends".

Germany and France stopped exporting medical supplies like PPE more than a month ago. Germany has now lifted that ban but it's too late for Italy or Spain, the damage has been done.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-exports/germany-li

SB


If anything i hope it's a wake up call for humanity and lines we made ourselves through water ways, cultures and heritage.

Borders don't stop viruses spreading, but they do hamper our ability to fight back.

We have no choice but to globally co operate now. So long as this virus is floating around somewhere in the world, it will always be a potential threat for everyone.

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Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 10:18 - Apr 3 with 1569 viewsBrixtonBlue

Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 07:29 - Apr 3 by Ely_Blue

The magic ventilator tree, you know the same one that was the magic money tree when Corbyn and his cronies were trying to buy your votes!


Wow. Such unbelievable lack of awareness. Callis provided the link about the ventilators story. And it was THE TORIES that came up with the magic money tree idea - Theresa May saying there wasn't one when the nurses wanted a pay rise. Since then the Tories have found plenty if money for other things.

You're either being disingenuous or you're unbelievably clueless. Which is it?

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Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 10:19 - Apr 3 with 1562 viewsBloomBlue

Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 09:57 - Apr 3 by monytowbray

It's a scheme to get medical equipment, not an existing stock pile. It's another access point for us we were invited to join and turned it down, then went on to lie and say they never received the comms.

How fast or slow the EU moved is besides the point.


But it is the point you criticise the Government for being too slow but not the EU, if the EU had gone out and used it's purchasing power that so many tell us about in January and purchased 1000's of ventilators then people in Italy and Spain possibly would be alive.
It's because you hate the Tories you politically point score selectively.

I accept we should be looking at all options for buying ventilators but the whole world is doing the same and there is no guarantee the EU will find any and therefore looking at the options at home are sensible.
People also need to understand these things aren't made overnight what's the point of a company turning out 1000's for them to fail.
It seems Italy has been getting some (numbers unknown) from China and they're failing what's the point of that.
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Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 10:19 - Apr 3 with 1562 viewsBrixtonBlue

Flatten the peak whilst boosting the NHS? on 07:00 - Apr 3 by BloomBlue

Take up on the EU ventilators? If they have so many why aren't they giving them to Italy and Spain who are short of ventilators? All you do is post fake news


How is this fake news? It's right here on the BBC;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-52081873/coronavirus-gove-defends-not-

You are Donald Trump and I claim my £350m.

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