| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... 17:41 - Apr 8 with 2265 views | Bloots |
….is not just inevitable, but could be genuinely harmful to some people if they are already vulnerable.
It's really not helpful to be constantly spreading negative, bad news, whther it's true or not (it normally isn't)
If anyone is looking for a balanced, realistic, informed and quite often positive view of things then you could do a lot worse than look at Professor Karol Sikora.
@ProfKarolSikora
He's primarily a senior oncologist, but also a CMO and a former WHO director.
I have met him personally a couple of times and his is an inspiring character.
Don't feed the trolls (apart from Bluefish, obviously) |  |
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| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 17:49 - Apr 8 with 2220 views | Illinoisblue |
Sikora’s relentless positivity is interesting to read every day. Hoping beyond hope he’s right. |  |
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| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 17:49 - Apr 8 with 2220 views | J2BLUE |
Lets hope so. |  |
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| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 18:28 - Apr 8 with 2136 views | gordon |
Good to be optimistic, but I'd be surprised if the timeline he lays out here comes to pass!
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| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 18:46 - Apr 8 with 2095 views | Darth_Koont |
| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 18:28 - Apr 8 by gordon |
Good to be optimistic, but I'd be surprised if the timeline he lays out here comes to pass!
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I think it's certainly reasonable. The key is the at-risk people who are 65+ and/or have an underlying condition. An exit strategy that is focused on shielding them (and the healthcare workers and resources needed to deal with them) will work.
We're arriving at the point where a continued total lockdown across the board will cause as many health, quality of life problems and avoidable deaths through a busted global economy.
The US is the biggest concern for the global economy and overall loss of life. Just hope that they start showing real signs of getting the situation under control or Europe will be hamstrung in any recovery. |  |
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| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 20:48 - Apr 8 with 1963 views | Sharkey |
As this is a mildly more positive thread, maybe this is the right place to ask this question.
My sister is an NHS midwife and has been at home with the virus. (She had it sort somewhere between mild and medium whereas her husband who has asthma was definitely more afflicted. ) Anyway, my sister is soon due to return to the front line at work. Does anyone know if having been certified by the NHS as 'fully recovered' she can then visit/mingle with my very elderly mother with state blessing? At the moment it is my other sister (who lives closer but also works in the same hospital and who probably hasn't had the virus) , who drops off food for my mother. Presumably my midwife sister could have something on her hands or whatever, but also presumably as a midwife she understands hygiene. I ask this question in all ignorance (I don't live in UK) but is there any chance that some people will soon be registered 'safe' or is that never going to happen? I don't see how we move out of this at all if nobody gets an 'all-clear'. |  | | |
| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 21:21 - Apr 8 with 1897 views | Steve_M |
There are certainly people who seem to be positively excited by every bit of bad news. This is going to be really sh1t over the next couple of weeks though, deaths will move from the abstract to friends of friends or relatives and, for some, far closer.
I hope the opportunistic assessments are right, the experience of countries coming out of lockdown will be instructive. |  |
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| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 09:11 - Apr 9 with 1710 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Only twits read twitter - but there are plenty of other misinformation sources in the absence of an adequately resourced healthcare system or any clear guidance or coherent strategy from the government.
It just shows how successfull the government's own misinformation strategy is when people refer to the NHS and hospitals as the 'front line'. As in any combat they are actually well behind the front line...the 'front line' is the community.... that's why more bus drivers have died in London than health care workers. If people were made to understand they are actually IN the epicentre of the infection and that they are not protecting the unde-rresourced, over-stretched NHS they are protecting themselves then a bit of progress would be made.
If you want to get even more realisitic the true horror of what we are going through is seen in what used to be glibly called 'care in the community'...now a mish mash of outsourced and under-resourced private care homes with very little if any PPE and struggling even to get food... and totally overstretched in even normal times council care.... the figures here would be horrific... except you are not getting them...so thats OK
It's just a pity we have become immune to posturing,incompetent, lying politicians..... an honest approach fronting a coherent strategy showing people have actually learned from what has and hasn't worked elsewhere from the beginning would have been a very good starting point.
Now they should be admitting there is no way out of this lockdown at present, nor will there be for months until we become desensitised to people dying from what is in many cases a lack of preperation and the country's belief in tax cuts over services. |  |
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| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... (n/t) on 09:34 - Apr 9 with 1669 views | flimflam |
| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 21:21 - Apr 8 by Steve_M |
There are certainly people who seem to be positively excited by every bit of bad news. This is going to be really sh1t over the next couple of weeks though, deaths will move from the abstract to friends of friends or relatives and, for some, far closer.
I hope the opportunistic assessments are right, the experience of countries coming out of lockdown will be instructive. |
[Post edited 9 Apr 2020 9:41]
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| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 09:41 - Apr 9 with 1644 views | gordon |
| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 20:48 - Apr 8 by Sharkey |
As this is a mildly more positive thread, maybe this is the right place to ask this question.
My sister is an NHS midwife and has been at home with the virus. (She had it sort somewhere between mild and medium whereas her husband who has asthma was definitely more afflicted. ) Anyway, my sister is soon due to return to the front line at work. Does anyone know if having been certified by the NHS as 'fully recovered' she can then visit/mingle with my very elderly mother with state blessing? At the moment it is my other sister (who lives closer but also works in the same hospital and who probably hasn't had the virus) , who drops off food for my mother. Presumably my midwife sister could have something on her hands or whatever, but also presumably as a midwife she understands hygiene. I ask this question in all ignorance (I don't live in UK) but is there any chance that some people will soon be registered 'safe' or is that never going to happen? I don't see how we move out of this at all if nobody gets an 'all-clear'. |
I think it's probably quite unlikely in the near future (next 3 months or so) that there will be access to tests (antibody tests) that will allow people who have had the disease, or think they've had the disease to get an 'all-clear' pass.
There's some new research from China suggesting that antibodies aren't always present in people who are known to have had the disease, or the antibodies are present but at very low levels. If confirmed, there would be a real possibility of repeat infections, but not for everyone, and the timescales of when this would become a risk would be unclear.
Effective antibody tests would depend on an understanding of the relationships between exposure to the virus (the virus load and time passed since exposure), antibody levels and potential immunity over time - this will take a long time to establish, in my opinion. I just can't see how a test could be robustly assessed, and safe levels of antibodies determined without research on how those antibody levels might decrease over time in individuals, and on what the variation between individuals is.
That's to say nothing of the social challenges of actually putting into place a system etc. [Post edited 9 Apr 2020 9:42]
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| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 23:50 - Apr 9 with 1544 views | Sharkey |
| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 09:41 - Apr 9 by gordon |
I think it's probably quite unlikely in the near future (next 3 months or so) that there will be access to tests (antibody tests) that will allow people who have had the disease, or think they've had the disease to get an 'all-clear' pass.
There's some new research from China suggesting that antibodies aren't always present in people who are known to have had the disease, or the antibodies are present but at very low levels. If confirmed, there would be a real possibility of repeat infections, but not for everyone, and the timescales of when this would become a risk would be unclear.
Effective antibody tests would depend on an understanding of the relationships between exposure to the virus (the virus load and time passed since exposure), antibody levels and potential immunity over time - this will take a long time to establish, in my opinion. I just can't see how a test could be robustly assessed, and safe levels of antibodies determined without research on how those antibody levels might decrease over time in individuals, and on what the variation between individuals is.
That's to say nothing of the social challenges of actually putting into place a system etc. [Post edited 9 Apr 2020 9:42]
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Thanks for your thoughtful and clear answer. | | | |
| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 07:25 - Apr 10 with 1455 views | Churchman |
| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 21:21 - Apr 8 by Steve_M |
There are certainly people who seem to be positively excited by every bit of bad news. This is going to be really sh1t over the next couple of weeks though, deaths will move from the abstract to friends of friends or relatives and, for some, far closer.
I hope the opportunistic assessments are right, the experience of countries coming out of lockdown will be instructive. |
Sadly, I suspect you are right. I saw the BBC interview yesterday with the chap who’d survived it and had been in intensive care. He was a relatively fit bloke but the virus had ravaged him and while he was on the mend he had a long way to go. For those that don’t think it’s real or relevant to them and are ignoring the lock down, they should take a look at it.
For a good news story it was inspiring and shocking at the same time and for me more ‘real’ than endless stats without context. I suspect Boris will come out of hospital in a similar debilitated state and if so, I hope he uses it to ram home the message as the fella did on the BBC yesterday.. |  | | |
| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 07:43 - Apr 10 with 1435 views | No9 |
| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 09:11 - Apr 9 by ElephantintheRoom |
Only twits read twitter - but there are plenty of other misinformation sources in the absence of an adequately resourced healthcare system or any clear guidance or coherent strategy from the government.
It just shows how successfull the government's own misinformation strategy is when people refer to the NHS and hospitals as the 'front line'. As in any combat they are actually well behind the front line...the 'front line' is the community.... that's why more bus drivers have died in London than health care workers. If people were made to understand they are actually IN the epicentre of the infection and that they are not protecting the unde-rresourced, over-stretched NHS they are protecting themselves then a bit of progress would be made.
If you want to get even more realisitic the true horror of what we are going through is seen in what used to be glibly called 'care in the community'...now a mish mash of outsourced and under-resourced private care homes with very little if any PPE and struggling even to get food... and totally overstretched in even normal times council care.... the figures here would be horrific... except you are not getting them...so thats OK
It's just a pity we have become immune to posturing,incompetent, lying politicians..... an honest approach fronting a coherent strategy showing people have actually learned from what has and hasn't worked elsewhere from the beginning would have been a very good starting point.
Now they should be admitting there is no way out of this lockdown at present, nor will there be for months until we become desensitised to people dying from what is in many cases a lack of preperation and the country's belief in tax cuts over services. |
I don't disagree with anything you have posted in particular the levels of under reporting deaths in the community is a bit scary- more than 10k suggested from one source - which is why the police have now decided to enforce the lockdown
What is NOT being reported widely is the re-emergence in some Asian countries who thought they had not only peaked but were now clearing, Some countries are now going into a more severe form of restrictions / lockdown. It is not yet known if this is a second wave or a different strain.
New york now has more cases than any Country BUT it is all going to be over by easter
I spoke to my GP, by phone yesterday, his surgery still has no PPE. What hey do have has been provided by shools & donations.
This is truly horrific & although it is classeless it is certainly hitting the poor much harder & for longer than any other sector of the community. | | | |
| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 08:38 - Apr 10 with 1406 views | sparks |
| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 07:43 - Apr 10 by No9 |
I don't disagree with anything you have posted in particular the levels of under reporting deaths in the community is a bit scary- more than 10k suggested from one source - which is why the police have now decided to enforce the lockdown
What is NOT being reported widely is the re-emergence in some Asian countries who thought they had not only peaked but were now clearing, Some countries are now going into a more severe form of restrictions / lockdown. It is not yet known if this is a second wave or a different strain.
New york now has more cases than any Country BUT it is all going to be over by easter
I spoke to my GP, by phone yesterday, his surgery still has no PPE. What hey do have has been provided by shools & donations.
This is truly horrific & although it is classeless it is certainly hitting the poor much harder & for longer than any other sector of the community. |
Oh dear. Do tell us which reliable source you rely upon this time... |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 08:44 - Apr 10 with 1398 views | No9 |
| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 08:38 - Apr 10 by sparks |
Oh dear. Do tell us which reliable source you rely upon this time... |
Why are you so stupid? | | | |
| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 08:49 - Apr 10 with 1389 views | sparks |
| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 08:44 - Apr 10 by No9 |
Why are you so stupid? |
That's a "no I cant" then. In a thread entitled 'All the cv19 scaremongering....' | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 09:00 - Apr 10 with 1374 views | No9 |
| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 08:49 - Apr 10 by sparks |
That's a "no I cant" then. In a thread entitled 'All the cv19 scaremongering....' |
You are one of those not taking this seriously - maybe you have devine protection?
You don't know about the re-emergence of the virus in Singapore ? You know that it is not the same virus or one that has gotten around human immunity?
You don't believe the medical staff that have no PPE?
Have you not noticed the reduction in BBC reports from Asian countries?
YOu ignore the WHO? You also ignore the World bank & IMFC
Put down the Telegraph & Mail
Just to repeat why are you so stupid | | | |
| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 09:11 - Apr 10 with 1343 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 18:28 - Apr 8 by gordon |
Good to be optimistic, but I'd be surprised if the timeline he lays out here comes to pass!
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I looked at his thread - what is he basing this on?
He's obviously a very clever guy but his specialist field is oncology, which surely doesn't make him an expert voice on this matter. His dates seem a bit plucked out of thin air. |  |
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| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 09:16 - Apr 10 with 1331 views | sparks |
| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 09:00 - Apr 10 by No9 |
You are one of those not taking this seriously - maybe you have devine protection?
You don't know about the re-emergence of the virus in Singapore ? You know that it is not the same virus or one that has gotten around human immunity?
You don't believe the medical staff that have no PPE?
Have you not noticed the reduction in BBC reports from Asian countries?
YOu ignore the WHO? You also ignore the World bank & IMFC
Put down the Telegraph & Mail
Just to repeat why are you so stupid |
You claimed a source says that 10,000 deaths are under reported in the community. What is the cource. That is all you have been asked.
Which is why it looks a little bit like scaremongering...
Leave out the snide PMs as well please. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 09:53 - Apr 10 with 1295 views | Swansea_Blue |
| All the CV19 scaremongering on twitter..... on 17:49 - Apr 8 by J2BLUE |
Lets hope so. |
That's rubbish. I peaked about 20 years ago. |  |
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